Shinji Kagawa

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With the World Cup in the summer he may need to act in January, a loan spell at the very least unless circumstances at United change markedly in the next 2-3 months. Such a waste.
 
marjen said:
He must be really shit in training.
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Which is something I can´t really see being the case given his reputation of an extremely disciplined and hard working player.

People want him to adapt to the style of Moyes and his role on the left flank? Fair enough, but then they have to give him play time to do so. It is not like the difference in performances between him and the other offensive midfielders bar Rooney was that huge, that he would not deserve chances. He was not that poor, that he could not have played today and gain some confidence and I also don´t think that his substitution vs. WBA was warranted.

Taking all his time at United into account, this whole saga is a huge misunderstanding. Kagawa was probably never intended to be played on the left flank in that systen in the first place, otherwise I would question this whole transfer.

I just hope that if there is not major turning point soon United will be willing to let him go in the Winter for an acceptable offer, because at some point he has also to think about the world cup in the next summer. I´m far from being unbiased in this topic, because I would love to see him back at Dortmund. However, he is not absolutely needed at my team and I would rather see him succeed at United. This was and probably still is his dream to play for United and I don´t want to see it crushed. I came to like the little guy too much to see that happening, especially given the things he gave up to come to Old Trafford.
 
gza the genius said:
I don't understand why people keeping suggesting this is simply Moyes not rating him, he hardly got a look under Sir Alex last season either. I'm not really sure what the problem is at all, he's clearly a talented player and should be getting much more playing time.
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22 appearances despite the disruptions caused by injuries.

Some of the comments from Moyes thus far and his use of Kagawa when compared to other players is certainly suggestive of change in thinking i'd say. Had SAF remained i think Rooney would have been sold which simplifies the situation a fair bit of course.
 
Needs to be given far more chances. He hasn't set the world alight when he's played so far this season, but neither has anyone else playing in his position(s) (except Rooney). And at least he provides intelligent movement and vision.
 
He didn't play today because Moyes picked a solid, hard working industrious team to come back with a point and nick a win if at all possible which we would have if not for a Vidic blunder.

Other than today and City away (where Moyes copied last seasons tactics against City) he's started every game since August. He's getting chances, its up to him to make himself undroppable.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
With the World Cup in the summer he may need to act in January, a loan spell at the very least unless circumstances at United change markedly in the next 2-3 months. Such a waste.
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I think he should leave and go back to Dortmund in January, I've lost my hope in regards to Kagawa. He'll be amazing back at Dortmund and Klopp will do everything to get him back.
 
Clearly it's better to have an uncultured oaf with an afro in the hole than Kagawa.
 
NinjaFletch said:
He didn't play today because Moyes picked a solid, hard working industrious team to come back with a point and nick a win if at all possible which we would have if not for a Vidic blunder.

Other than today and City away (where Moyes copied last seasons tactics against City) he's started every game since August. He's getting chances, its up to him to make himself undroppable.
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Wait, what? He started Leverkusen, WBA (subbed off at HT) and Liverpool in the cup. Thats hardly every game.
 
Why this obsession with Kagawa? He's a squad player like others, and has hardly been convincing when played.
 
Sphaero said:
He was also on the bench vs. Swansee and Chelsea and did not see a single minute.
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Why are you talking about games in August when I clearly said since then?

Besides, he wasn't match fit. Moyes has already explained that absence.
 
Sultan said:
Why this obsession with Kagawa? He's a squad player like others, and has hardly been convincing when played.
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If I would have to take a guess:

A lot of people put high hopes into Kagawa, because of the performances he showed at Dortmund. He also possesses something that many supporters miss in the current side: creativity, dynamic and also excitement.

Many simply view it as a shame that it is appearantly not working out at United.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Why are you talking about games in August when I clearly said since then?

Besides, he wasn't match fit. Moyes has already explained that absence.
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Maybe my English fails me at the moment, because I thought "since August" included that month.

I would also question Moyes´ decision making if the supposed reason was just match fittness. Quite frankly, IMO a player who is not match fit does not belong on the bench, because he takes away a place of a fit player.
 
gza the genius said:
I don't understand why people keeping suggesting this is simply Moyes not rating him, he hardly got a look under Sir Alex last season either.
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He did start 17 games in the Premier League and came on as a sub many times. That's not too bad, considering he was injured for more than 10 games combined.

According to Andy Mitten, one of the best United sources, Fergie clearly rated Kagawa. So it's not unfair to say that this has Moyes written all over it. Kagawa didn't just suddenly become bad. According to Rio, Kagawa is the best player in training now that Scholes has retired, so it's not like he's is looking like a fool in behind the scenes either. And while he hasn't been immensely good the times he's featured this season, he's still proved enough to start more games.

But like I've said before in this thread: it's still early. Let's wait a few months before we draw the conclusion that Kagawa isn't included in Moyes plans.
 
Sphaero said:
If I would have to take a guess:

A lot of people put high hopes into Kagawa, because of the performances he showed at Dortmund. He also possesses something that many supporters miss in the current side: creativity, dynamic and also excitement.

Many simply view it as a shame that it is appearantly not working out at United.
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To be fair, Moyes can only go by his performances at United. Dortmund is history.
 
Mad Winger said:
He did start 17 games in the Premier League and came on as a sub many times. That's not too bad, considering he was injured for more than 10 games combined.

According to Andy Mitten, one of the best United sources, Fergie clearly rated Kagawa. So it's not unfair to say that this has Moyes written all over it. Kagawa didn't just suddenly become bad. According to Rio, Kagawa is the best player in training now that Scholes has retired, so it's not like he's is looking like a fool in behind the scenes either. And while he hasn't been immensely good the times he's featured this season, he's still proved enough to start more games.

But like I've said before in this thread: it's still early. Let's wait a few months before we draw the conclusion that Kagawa isn't included in Moyes plans.
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Also Sir Alex said repeatedly that Kagawa was going to be a big player for us next season and we'll all see how good he is. We saw at the end of last season how Sir Alex was using Kagawa more and more often behind the striker as well, and he was given more starts at the end of the season, which indicates that he was clearly hoping our next manager would make full use of him, but unfortunately it looks like Moyes has no plans to use him in his best 11. The stuff Moyes has said about him isn't very encouraging either, as well as him getting subbed off at half time despite being one of our better and most threatening players against West Brom.
 
He got plenty of appearances under Sir Alex but he hardly got a run in the side. His appearances were very stop-start from what I remember, he'd start a game and then miss the next for no explicable reason.

It's still too early to tell if it's just a Moyes' thing or not for me. Moyes himself said much of the reason he wasn't playing was a lack of fitness. That said, the halftime substitution and him hardly ever being brought on as a sub does look bad for Kagawa's future here.
 
bosnian_red said:
Also Sir Alex said repeatedly that Kagawa was going to be a big player for us next season and we'll all see how good he is. We saw at the end of last season how Sir Alex was using Kagawa more and more often behind the striker as well, and he was given more starts at the end of the season, which indicates that he was clearly hoping our next manager would make full use of him, but unfortunately it looks like Moyes has no plans to use him in his best 11. The stuff Moyes has said about him isn't very encouraging either, as well as him getting subbed off at half time despite being one of our better and most threatening players against West Brom.
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Sir Alex had fallen out with Rooney.
 
Sultan said:
Why this obsession with Kagawa? He's a squad player like others, and has hardly been convincing when played.
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When played begin the striker last season he looked excellent and even scored a hat trick.

Rooney was out today, he should have played there.
 
What the most consecutive appearances Kagawa's had for United? I'd be surprised if its much more then 4 or 5.
 
I don't blame Moyes for not starting Kagawa. Loss against West Brom at home, and now facing a strong Shaktar team away from home - 4-3-3 was the perfect formation to push the opposition to the wings and not get overloaded in the middle. However, I am 60% sure that the tactics changed in the second half. When we were off the ball, Fellaini was ahead of the pivot (nothing knew from the first half), but when we were on the ball, he was playing behind Van Persie. Seriously?
 
pocco said:
We didn't play that system today though. We'd have sacrificed a midfielder and probably have paid the price.
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He could have comfortably played at the peak of a midfield 3.
 
Pexbo said:
He could have comfortably played at the peak of a midfield 3.
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Yeah agree with this, plenty of other teams do this, can't see why it would be an issue for us. He's not a slacker or anything.
 
Sultan said:
Sir Alex had fallen out with Rooney.
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Already one and a half year ago? United's scout in Germany reported that Kagawa was not physically strong enough to succeed in the PL and that we therefore shouldn't sign him. Fergie himself disregarded his scout's advice, because he really rated Kagawa. He didn't suddenly start rating Kagawa at the end of last season just because he had fallen out with Rooney.
 
Ash_G said:
Yeah agree with this, plenty of other teams do this, can't see why it would be an issue for us. He's not a slacker or anything.
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Just not sure how he'd find RVP with a pass. I can't see him heading it on or chesting it down....
 
Do people expect him to start 3 games in a week? When you see the way we set up against Shaktar, it's no surprise he wasn't picked. He'll get a start at the weekend.
 
Agree with Sults

Also didn't Moyes say recently that his fitness levels are behind the others?
 
kps88 said:
Do people expect him to start 3 games in a week? When you see the way we set up against Shaktar, it's no surprise he wasn't picked. He'll get a start at the weekend.
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First half sure though I would say we were a little too defensive. Second half though fellaini seemed to push up a lot more and in that case I'd rather see kagawa if Rooney isn't playing.
 
I've always thought Fergie rated Shinji very highly, as evident he started away at the bernabeu and other big games. His stop start season last year was due to two reasons really - injury and bedding in. I'm not getting the same vibe from Moyes so far, which is a shame. He still has a whole season to prove his worth though.
 
I don't think Kagawa is a Moyes type of player. The manager prefers battlers rather than finesse as demonstrated by his fascination with Fellaini; his preference for the likes of Piennar, Jelavic, Anichebe etc. while at Everton. Moyes comes across as a safety first manager, who places a high premium on defensive solidity. Consequently this requires his attackers to also be able to contribute defensively and I am afraid we will continue to see similar setups to the ones we saw last night or against Chelsea quite a bit this season. I wouldn't be surprised if we were to be linked with another one of his ex Everton players any time soon.
 
Sam said:
What the most consecutive appearances Kagawa's had for United? I'd be surprised if its much more then 4 or 5.
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I rate the lad, but he's not played well enough to start many consecutive games for us.

I really hope that he doesn't turn into what Berbatov was on here. Just a load of fanboys calling for him to start every game, despite him not earning it. He's a quality player, but he needs to start showing it in a United shirt.
 
Eto'odinho said:
I don't think Kagawa is a Moyes type of player. The manager prefers battlers rather than finesse as demonstrated by his fascination with Fellaini; his preference for the likes of Piennar, Jelavic, Anichebe etc. while at Everton. Moyes comes across as a safety first manager, who places a high premium on defensive solidity. Consequently this requires his attackers to also be able to contribute defensively and I am afraid we will continue to see similar setups to the ones we saw last night or against Chelsea quite a bit this season. I wouldn't be surprised if we were to be linked with another one of his ex Everton players any time soon.
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I don't think we can definitively say what type of players Moyes likes simply from his time managing a mid-table side. I doubt he'd be benching Iniesta or Messi if he took the Barca job because he 'never played with an Iniesta at Everton'. Shinji Kagawa's are generally deployed at the top end of football, at least outside Spain. Poorer teams cannot carry them.
 
Shark22 said:
I rate the lad, but he's not played well enough to start many consecutive games for us.

I really hope that he doesn't turn into what Berbatov was on here. Just a load of fanboys calling for him to start every game, despite him not earning it. He's a quality player, but he needs to start showing it in a United shirt.
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When? He plays fine against West Brom and is taken off at half time after which we go on to play worse in the second half. It's going to be difficult for any player to make an impact when he gets constantly shuffled in and out of the team let alone a player who still hasn't found out what his role in the team is exactly. If he gets a run of games, say 6 or 7, he'll probably come good but it's hardly looking like he will when Giggs gets the nod ahead of him when we're calling out for creativity.
 
Sarni said:
When? He plays fine against West Brom and is taken off at half time after which we go on to play worse in the second half. It's going to be difficult for any player to make an impact when he gets constantly shuffled in and out of the team let alone a player who still hasn't found out what his role in the team is exactly. If he gets a run of games, say 6 or 7, he'll probably come good but it's hardly looking like he will when Giggs gets the nod ahead of him when we're calling out for creativity.
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What does that tell you though? if Kagawa has been the player that people think he's been for us, well then surely Giggs shouldn't be getting a look in.

I thought that Kagawa showed some of what he could do vs West Brom, but his overall performance was still to patchy IMO. It's as if he's teasing us.
 
pocco said:
He's not good enough defensively, which is what we were looking for. He also drifts and gets caught way out of position.
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He wasn't brought in for that purpose in the first place. We've already got 'defensive' wingers playing for us more often than I'd like. Doesn't quite make sense to have a 'defensive' attacking mid as well. Heck, while we're at it, why not make our strikers play more defensively as well?
 
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