Shinji Kagawa

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golden_blunder said:
Also didn't Moyes say recently that his fitness levels are behind the others?
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He has cited competition for places in recent times and more numerously i believe. The extent of the match fitness was always debatable and come October is surely no longer relevant?

Has he been subbed on even once yet under Moyes?

With the scarcity of players of his type in the current squad the number of occasions that the manager has referred to the team lacking a cutting edge, it is inexplicable.

What likely makes the present situation more annoying fro some people is that even in Rooney's absence there hasn't been a significant change in the player's fortunes.
 
van der star said:
He wasn't brought in for that purpose in the first place. We've already got 'defensive' wingers playing for us more often than I'd like. Doesn't quite make sense to have a 'defensive' attacking mid as well. Heck, while we're at it, why not make our strikers play more defensively as well?
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Yeah, he wasn't brought in for that purpose and that's why he didn't play. Don't you get it? We wanted stability and a disciplined defensive shape yesterday. Kagawa doesn't provide that.
 
Shark22 said:
What does that tell you though? if Kagawa has been the player that people think he's been for us, well then surely Giggs shouldn't be getting a look in.

I thought that Kagawa showed some of what he could do vs West Brom, but his overall performance was still to patchy IMO. It's as if he's teasing us.
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I could tell without thinking twice that Nani is a far superior player to Young in pretty much every aspect yet Young has started more games this season.
 
pocco said:
Yeah, he wasn't brought in for that purpose and that's why he didn't play. Don't you get it? We wanted stability and a disciplined defensive shape yesterday. Kagawa doesn't provide that.
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I wasn't talking about just yesterday's game. He's never going to provide us with defensive stability because it's not really his job to track back. He's brilliant at what he does and if we can't accommodate a proper attacking midfielder and his fluid style of play then I think it's best for both parties to part ways ASAP and cut their losses.
 
Sarni said:
I could tell without thinking twice that Nani is a far superior player to Young in pretty much every aspect yet Young has started more games this season.
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Nani has been injured though hasn't he? I expect Nani to start over Young for sure at the weekend because of his performance against West Brom anyway. He was our best player that day.

Besides Kagawa's performance vs Norwich last season, there hasn't really been many times when I definitely think that he should start the next game.
 
Simply hasn't been quite good enough to lock a regular place down yet.

Plenty of ability but plays in Rooney's position and isn't as good as him.

Has time on his side though.
 
sincher said:
Simply hasn't been quite good enough to lock a regular place down yet.

Plenty of ability but plays in Rooney's position and isn't as good as him.

Has time on his side though.
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Is certainly of the quality that he should have appeared more then he has done thus far this season.

If Rooney was a similarly creative No 10 at this moment wouldn't the stats support that?

Kagawa probably has all of three months before both he and the club have a decision to make, going by recent evidence not even an injury to Rooney makes it possible for him to play in his best position so...
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Manchester United ready to swap Shinji Kagawa to sign Neven Subotic from Dortmund - Express.co.uk
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Not gonna happen in the winter. Hummels-Subotic is the most established CB pair of the Bundesliga and although Subotic has expressed interest of playing in the EPL in the past, he also signed a new contract until 2016 earlier this year.

We have a really good 3rd CB with Sokratis in the team, but I don´t see us sacraficing the added depth in the defense and trusting two highly talented but unproven youngsters as first back ups in the middle of the season just to get a 6th offensive midfielder.

As much as I like having Kagawa back, this deal would hurt us more than it helps.
 
Sphaero said:
Not gonna happen in the winter. Hummels-Subotic is the most established CB pair of the Bundesliga and although Subotic has expressed interest of playing in the EPL in the past, he also signed a new contract until 2016 earlier this year.

We have a really good 3rd CB with Sokratis in the team, but I don´t see us sacraficing the added depth in the defense and trusting two highly talented but unproven youngsters as first back ups in the middle of the season just to get a 6th offensive midfielder.

As much as I like having Kagawa back, this deal would hurt us more than it helps.
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What about the GunDog?
 
Alock1 said:
What about the GunDog?
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The what? I assume you mean Großkreutz?

He can play there, but is needed as the RB (and does a formidable job at that aswell) to cover for the long term injured Piszczek. We expect the Polish to return for the second half of the season, but when he will reclaim his top form is a big unknown.

Unless there is a big influx of long term injuries, I don´t expect much activity on the transfer market anyway. We are not known to spend much at that time, bringing back Nuri Sahin in the last period being a notable exception. The only one I can truly see leave this time is reserve striker Julian Schieber, who seems to have lost even that spot to our talent Marvin Ducksch.

We are likely going to take a shot at getting one of the players we have shown interest in the summer, though. The likely cases being Kagawa or Kevin De Bruyne.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Manchester United ready to swap Shinji Kagawa to sign Neven Subotic from Dortmund - Express.co.uk
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Would be very disappointing if we swapped him for a defender. We've got plenty of good centrebacks who just need game time to get experience, which will only happen if rio is used more as a safety net rather than a first choice starter. Then as a player kagawa brings something we lack, we've not really seen enough of that yet but we also haven't given him a proper run yet.
 
Sphaero said:
The what? I assume you mean Großkreutz?

He can play there, but is needed as the RB (and does a formidable job at that aswell) to cover for the long term injured Piszczek. We expect the Polish to return for the second half of the season, but when he will reclaim his top form is a big unknown.

Unless there is a big influx of long term injuries, I don´t expect much activity on the transfer market anyway. We are not known to spend much at that time, bringing back Nuri Sahin in the last period being a notable exception. The only one I can truly see leave this time is reserve striker Julian Schieber, who seems to have lost even that spot to our talent Marvin Ducksch.

We are likely going to take a shot at getting one of the players we have shown interest in the summer, though. The likely cases being Kagawa or Kevin De Bruyne.
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I think he was talking about Ilkay the Gundog.
 
kouroux said:
I think he was talking about Ilkay the Gundog.
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Oh, ok, lol.

Yeah, not gonna happen either, sorry. Even if he does not extend his contract he will be worth more on the market than Kagawa in the next summer (no way in hell do we let him go in the winter). A swap in the next summer + 15 Mil € or something like that could make the officials consider, though.
 
Sometimes new managers just don't fancy certain players. January does seem too soon but won't be surprised if he leaves in the summer.
 
Ash_G said:
Then as a player kagawa brings something we lack, we've not really seen enough of that yet but we also haven't given him a proper run yet.
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Managers themselves do no have time to keep playing players not performing. Owners, fans want instant results.
 
Sultan said:
Managers themselves do no have time to keep playing players not performing. Owners, fans want instant results.
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Yet Valencia and young have been regular players during now over a season of largely ineffective performances. I agree that in general players need to hit the ground running, but it's not like there are player playing any better to keep him out the team, the only player who could rightly claim a spot in the team base on performances other than nani in those wide spots is januzaj an I'd be fine if kagawa was kept out to play him, but not if its young or Valencia as they currently are playing or welbeck every week who can equally be very quiet out wide, though of course but as bad as the others have been.
 
I don't understand why a 4:3:3 system including both Wayne and Kagawa can't work.
Kagawa play in front of the 2 central midfielders with the attacking front three consisting of RVP, Rooney and Valencia/Nani/young all fighting it out for the 3rd spot. All rotating. All Fluid. Nani would be more suitable.
Yes we will have to review the full backs, one of them should be a full back in the Irwin mould and the other an attacking full back.

It could work. It should work.
 
Kagawa highlights from Dortmund. If we can give Valencia an 18 month run in the team with continued mediocrity throughout, we can give Kagawa a run (pref in the middle with Rooney on the left)

 
Ash_G said:
Yet Valencia and young have been regular players during now over a season of largely ineffective performances. I agree that in general players need to hit the ground running, but it's not like there are player playing any better to keep him out the team, the only player who could rightly claim a spot in the team base on performances other than nani in those wide spots is januzaj an I'd be fine if kagawa was kept out to play him, but not if its young or Valencia as they currently are playing or welbeck every week who can equally be very quiet out wide, though of course but as bad as the others have been.
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Nani, Young, Valencia are different players, and are not taking up Kagawa's position. If he's best position is an attacking midfielder he has to dislodge Rooney. Good luck with that in his present form.
 
Do people really think both Moyes, Sir Alex and the coaching staff past and present have been unjust not giving regular games to Kagawa? To be fair, by his own admission he has not been very good over the last year.
 
Tibs said:
Kagawa highlights from Dortmund. If we can give Valencia an 18 month run in the team with continued mediocrity throughout, we can give Kagawa a run (pref in the middle with Rooney on the left)
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But why push Rooney out? He is a better an more important player than Kagawa.
 
If Shinji was playing behind RvP, I am 100% confident we would be a more creative side, taking chances and winning games in style rather than looking laboured and shit.

Rooney, has been great, but put him on the left and let him run around, he hasn't created many chances for anyone this season.

Nani - Kagawa - Rooney

-------- RvP --------

That line will bring us success.

Does Moyes have it in him to move Rooney to the left though? I don't think DM would want to make Rooney confused and angry again (I still wish we'd got rid of him in the summer btw)
 
The only way to get the best out of Kagawa is to give him a free role in the team. He is not the type who thrives in a locked down position.

Its a shame we cannot get Nani / Kagawa / Rooney / RVP to work in a fluid front 4.

Use the CB and the CM as stationary players and let the fullbacks go high to create the width.

I really do think we need to give these players a run in the team together to get the best out of it.

Hopefully the fact only 1 of those players played against Shakthar means they will all start against Sunderland.
 
Randall Flagg said:
But why push Rooney out? He is a better an more important player than Kagawa.
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Rooney has been pressing, running around, scoring FKs, he's done well! But not enough that has meant we've been dope, so surely the option has to be tried?

Ultimately it's about how the team performs as a whole, and if we are better with Wayne on the left then so be it. If it annoys him, feck him, he doesn't want to be here anyway
 
Sultan said:
Nani, Young, Valencia are different players, and are not taking up Kagawa's position. If he's best position is an attacking midfielder he has to dislodge Rooney. Good luck with that in his present form.
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Personally I think they're all competing for the other two attacking spots. Welbeck is as well, often getting time starting outwide. I don't see any reason why he can't play from there.
 
Adam-Utd said:
The only way to get the best out of Kagawa is to give him a free role in the team. He is not the type who thrives in a locked down position.

Its a shame we cannot get Nani / Kagawa / Rooney / RVP to work in a fluid front 4.

Use the CB and the CM as stationary players and let the fullbacks go high to create the width.

I really do think we need to give these players a run in the team together to get the best out of it.

Hopefully the fact only 1 of those players played against Shakthar means they will all start against Sunderland.
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We've not really tried it yet, there's no reason I can think why it wouldn't work, give it a run and I'm sure it would work very well.
 
Adam-Utd said:
The only way to get the best out of Kagawa is to give him a free role in the team. He is not the type who thrives in a locked down position.

Its a shame we cannot get Nani / Kagawa / Rooney / RVP to work in a fluid front 4.

Use the CB and the CM as stationary players and let the fullbacks go high to create the width.

I really do think we need to give these players a run in the team together to get the best out of it.

Hopefully the fact only 1 of those players played against Shakthar means they will all start against Sunderland.
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Just because he's out on the left doesn't mean that he has to be locked down. Not every player that plays on the wing is Antonio Valencia.

There's plenty of players of Kagawa's mould that have absolutely no problems doing their thing from out wide. Silva and Mata come to mind.
 
Shark22 said:
Just because he's out on the left doesn't mean that he has to be locked down. Not every player that plays on the wing is Antonio Valencia.

There's plenty of players of Kagawa's mould that have absolutely no problems cutting in from out wide.
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It does though. Many times through the games you can see Moyes telling him to stay wide. I think that was even why he was subbed. Have you not noticed even when Januzaj came on he is stuck right out wide by the touchline?. He usually loves coming inside and mixing it up.

I can understand trying to stretch the pitch to create space, but it leaves our forwards so isolated they really struggle.
 
Shark22 said:
Nani has been injured though hasn't he? I expect Nani to start over Young for sure at the weekend because of his performance against West Brom anyway. He was our best player that day.

Besides Kagawa's performance vs Norwich last season, there hasn't really been many times when I definitely think that he should start the next game.
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Kagawa was outstanding at Upton Park last season, and created both of our goals brilliantly. Probably his best creative performance for us, and against a bunch of thugs too.
 
Adam-Utd said:
It does though. Many times through the games you can see Moyes telling him to stay wide. I think that was even why he was subbed. Have you not noticed even when Januzaj came on he is stuck right out wide by the touchline?. He usually loves coming inside and mixing it up.

I can understand trying to stretch the pitch to create space, but it leaves our forwards so isolated they really struggle.
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But Januzaj starts wide and drives inside. Welbeck when he plays wide constantly comes inside, can't think of a cross he's put in this season. Inj fact as we have no natural left winger anyone who starts wide cuts inside to some degree bar nani on occassions.
 
Rozay said:
Kagawa was outstanding at Upton Park last season, and created both of our goals brilliantly. Probably his best creative performance for us, and against a bunch of thugs too.
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Yeah he was good in that game, was unlucky not to score too.
 
Ash_G said:
But Januzaj starts wide and drives inside. Welbeck when he plays wide constantly comes inside, can't think of a cross he's put in this season. Inj fact as we have no natural left winger anyone who starts wide cuts inside to some degree bar nani on occassions.
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The difference is though they have the pace and dribbling skill required to play there.

Kagawa has never been known for that ability, he is great in tight spaces, is a good link passer and can finish.
Sure he can cut inside and try and play 1'2s but our players just do not respond to that style of play.
Sure he can play there and do a job, but its completely miss-using his ability.

Unfortunately if we want to see the best of him he has to play in the middle, if not he will always be at 50%
 
Sultan said:
Why this obsession with Kagawa? He's a squad player like others, and has hardly been convincing when played.
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Probably the best squad player in the league or in any league for that matter.. I watched most of Dortmunds games when he played there and I was so thrilled when we signed him.. SAF and Moyes well they haven´t found any real way to use him, and Moyes just doesn´t seem to have a clue how to intergrate him into the frame. If United had bought Özil would Moyes have played him as a winger or a midfielder? I can tell you this if we don´t start to play him in his best position he will leave and likely for Dortmund, we will soon see what we missed out on..
 
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