As long as he is on the bench. He is in Moyes's plans. He will play his part given the opportunity.
Shinji Kagawa
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I think Moyes has less loyalty to RVP than he has to Rooney, might be wrong though.. he might not want to get on the wrong side of either.
Kagawa should be playing a lot more, can't believe he isn't even been subbed on especially when Rooney was playing so bad tonight.
He has played a full 90 minutes just 6 times for us and only played in his preferred position once (the Norwich game).
How can anyone say that he's been given a decent chance to prove how good he is?
How can anyone say that he's been given a decent chance to prove how good he is?
I wanted Rooney subbed Moyes kept him on and he repaid him by being a leader for us in the last 20-25 mins his game picked up and his influence was there for all to see.
That's simply not true. He's played in the number 10 role several times. Ironically, he actually played the majority of the Norwich game on the left too (moving to the centre for the last 30 minutes or so).
I think a Carrick-Kagawa partnership will work more effectively than a Carrick-Cleverley combination since we have Rooney in the no10 position.
Cleverley just doesn't now cut the mustard for me.
Cleverley just doesn't now cut the mustard for me.
Teams will literally walk through a Kagawa-Carrick midfield.
The club should get rid of players who are wasted by sitting on the bench because it's is a waste for everyone. The team, the player, everyone.
Try to understand that. It's pretty simple.
Nothing new then.
We could at least try and stop them, not hand it them on a plate. It's a terrible idea.
He started 5 of the first 6 PL games last season in his preferred role, plus Real Madrid away and Villa at home.
One injury to Rooney or RVP and this guy will get his chance.
You must have seen another match then cos Cleverley was our 2nd best player on the night. He won 8/9 tackles, recovered the ball 5 times, created 2 chances from open play with an impressive 95% pass accuracy. Fans like you criminally underrate midfielders who go about their business quietly & effectively and you overrate street urchins like Cattermole that plough through & snap at the heels of their opponents.
It's a waste for the club to have quality back up? Alright then. Let's get rid of Javier Hernandez and sign Danny Graham and throw him on the bench.
Like when Rooney was injured midweek and Kagawa remained an unused sub?
I don't see how you come to this conclusion. If you said a midfield three of Carrick sat just behind Cleverley and Kagawa I would agree but Carrick and Kagawa in a CM two would lack so much stability. As much as I like Kagawa he would have to hold position and do a lot of the dirty work in a midfield two and that's just not his strengths.
Agree with this. Don't think he's been given a fair crack, but it seems Moyes isn't keen.
He will get chances, he just needs to grab one and really shine like Januzaj did yesterday rather than being solid.
Shaktar Donetsk? I think a lone striker was a tactical choice.
http://m.espn.go.com/soccer/story?storyId=1571145&src=desktop
Moyes stated that his plan wasn't to use Rooney anyway even had he been healthy.
I thought in the first half it was fair enough when it was a 4141, still think it was a little overly cautious though, but it did work more or less. Second half though Fellaini clearly pushed up more and there it was disappointing that Kagawa didn't come on.
Yeah, that's the same thing. You nailed it. Oh, and the backup hasn't been used as a back up. But, good point.
Go on and explain the diffidence. Kagawa has started more games than Ashley Young. More than Javier Hernandez. How is he not being used as a back up?
Adnan did as almost much in 90 mins as Kagawa has done since he signed. Even Kagawa's OT hat trick pales compared to 2 away goals from one down. Kagawa plays to the left for Japan, so the position, while not his best should not be that debilitating. And as Brwned says Adnan drifted to where the ball was and where he could do damage. He put his own mark on the game as he could.
Is is actually a waste, because the money you would get for him (I would assume 15-20 Mil €) would be more valuable for the club than having a player as 6th option for the offensive midfield, who is bound to become unsettled sooner or later if that continues. Right now, having Kagawa on the bench brings United very little, especially if he is played as he is right now.
OK, this is not only directed at you but everyone who brings up this argument: Do you actually watch the games of the national team or are you just pointing at the game sheet, where it shows him on the left side on paper?
Just because he plays on the same side in both teams does not make it the same game. The setups are completely different.
Japan works with fluid movement, little time on the ball per player and fast paced short passing to get towards the goal. It is very concentrated on the middle. The little width they have in their game is not provided by the midfielders, but by the fullbacks who move up the pitch in the offensive formation.
Now United plays one of the widest systems in modern football. It is way less concentrated on the middle and build to use the whole width of the pitch to stretch out the opposing defense and create spaces. The spaces between the players are way bigger and the overall movement is more riggid.
It is easy to see why one specific players would work very well in one system but not the other. Kagawa´s whole skill set is build on the first setup, preferably including a pressing system. The complete solution is also not giving him the freedom to roam and drift, because the setup influences not only his positon but also the movement of the whole team. There are players, who need space to become fully effective. Kagawa is not one of those, because he can work in the most crowded places, but he needs movement around him to truly shine. One of the biggest differences between Kagawa at United and at his national team is the time he holds onto the ball. Kagawa is used to release the ball quickly to a nearby standing team mate. The bigger spaces in United´s system make that way harder for him.
The biggest problem of Kagawa is not his positon, but the setup. He is at his best on the CAM role, but I could easily see him working as advanced part of Barcelona´s or Bayern´s three man central midfield or on the left side in Dortmund for example.
At United, I can only see him working well as part of a three man midfield with an defensive anchor or the CAM role. The only other alternative is hoping for Kagawa to really change his play style (a tough case because he still plays that way at the national team) and that takes time and has no guarantee of success.
You could have saved yourself a lot of typing by reading my whole post. Adnan played where he was needed yesterday despite being nominally on the left. I appreciate the system is not the same, but so what, as precious as he is to some, it's up to him to fit Manchester United not the other way around. I'd love him to be our heartbeat, playing the way he can, but he has to earn it.
Also, can a really top footballer be that positionally restricted, it's not like he's being asked to play centre back.
That's a great summary. I've always felt it's the system at United that's been the biggest reason. It's a huge change for him.
Of course, it's markedly obvious they two systems are different, but surely he could adapt if he is that good?
Spot on.
And he's not the only AM who's been asked to play wide in the world. It's fairly common for AM's to start wide nowadays
i dont know what are u people saying...
last season, despite playing not so many games, Shinji was one of our best player, playing on the left, but drifting towards the center at times. Scoring, assisting and helping in the general play. This was supposed to be his breakthrough season, but Moyes is a retarded man.
The only thing preventing Shinji to be a success here, is David Moyes.
Versus WBA he had a good first half, setting up 2 goals (wasted by Anderson and Buttner respectively)... he was one of our best players that half, yet, he was subbed....
on the other hand, yesterday, Adnan had a ok first half, nothing special, not even one assist, yet he got the confidence of the coach for the second half. What about Rooney or Nani... worst... yet, no Shinji in for the rescue. (this game they play with proper team, evra, NO ferdinand and anderson... not like vs WBA... that also helps)
I hope im wrong, but it looks that Moyes made up his mind and Shinji is fecked. I hope im wrong!! because he can be easily one of our most important players. Its the only one in our whole team capable of putting those through balls (killer balls) Ozil style... but yeah... feck it, right Moyes?
Is not the system (he prove last season he can do excellent)... Moyes is the problem.
last season, despite playing not so many games, Shinji was one of our best player, playing on the left, but drifting towards the center at times. Scoring, assisting and helping in the general play. This was supposed to be his breakthrough season, but Moyes is a retarded man.
The only thing preventing Shinji to be a success here, is David Moyes.
Versus WBA he had a good first half, setting up 2 goals (wasted by Anderson and Buttner respectively)... he was one of our best players that half, yet, he was subbed....
on the other hand, yesterday, Adnan had a ok first half, nothing special, not even one assist, yet he got the confidence of the coach for the second half. What about Rooney or Nani... worst... yet, no Shinji in for the rescue. (this game they play with proper team, evra, NO ferdinand and anderson... not like vs WBA... that also helps)
I hope im wrong, but it looks that Moyes made up his mind and Shinji is fecked. I hope im wrong!! because he can be easily one of our most important players. Its the only one in our whole team capable of putting those through balls (killer balls) Ozil style... but yeah... feck it, right Moyes?
Is not the system (he prove last season he can do excellent)... Moyes is the problem.
Of course, he should have done better at united different system or not. But he does seem to be a player who needs that other kind of setup, which of course isn't a great thing. Still, we should be patient. A lot of players take time to adjust to either their new club or a new league.
He wasn't one of our best players. He had quite a good return statistically but wasn't one of our best players.
You sound like a fanboi
I'm willing to give him all the time he needs, on his day he's a joy to watch, but as it stands he hasn't shown much. Not as little as Ashley Young mind. But the lad needs to do something special to get into the side.
So he set up goals against WBA which didn't result in goals?
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
Yup. As much as I love Kagawa, he needs to do more impact on games he's given. I still think he'll succeed here, in near future. He's a talented, hardworking, and intelligent footballer that has proved himself in similar league to PL.
I disagree on that bit. I don't think he needs to be special to get into the side. Nani, Valencia and Young have all gotten plenty of time in the side despite being poor for awhile. Not that I think that changes the benchmark for what we should look for.
and you reply like a 12 year old.
Moyes has admitted that Kagawa's best position may be in the no10 role. With that in mind I can at least understand Moyes' decision to not be playing him. When you need results it is the safer option to go with Rooney and Van Persie.
- Status