Shinji Kagawa

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Even if Moyes has decided to move Kagawa on, it would still help that process if Shinji played actually some football.
 
I'd sell him in the summer + cash for Reus unless something changes from now until the end of the season.
 
Revan said:
I would be much more happy to cut the loses with Moyes, than with Kagawa or Chicharito (not his thread but the exact same situation).
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Completely agree. Keeping Kagawa and trying to integrate him into the team would at least point to us trying to play football the right way, and would definitely be better to watch. Hernandez should not be frozen out the way he has after what he's shown for us over the last few years.
 
At this point, given that Moyes looks like he has no notion of giving him any kind of run, we might as well try and swap him back to Dortmund with some cash for Gundogan.

Disappointing, I rate Kagawa and reckon he has all the ability needed to be a success here, but Moyes seems to have no interest in playing him and would rather we played like shit on a stick.
 
Gerald G said:
I'd sell him in the summer + cash for Reus unless something changes from now until the end of the season.
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Reus would also play on the wing for us... Just saying.

He might be more of a winger than Kagawa is, but it would hardly change our current problems.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
I've given up over kagawa, he didn't fit into the team under Fergie, and it is even worse under Moyes, who doesn't rate him at all. I would prefer if we used him in a deal to get Gundogan from Dortmund.
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Eh, Fergie at least gave him time, and at times Kagawa was good enough to have Rooney got subbed, not him.

Fergie didnt trust him enough to play in the middle, but at least he trust him to play and Kagawa was starting to warmed up to the challenge at the end of last season.

The team looked devoid of ideas and doesnt create enough chances. We have a creative player who offer both in abundance sat on the bench without even coming on as a sub. So when people want him to play it's not fanboyism, it's common sense
 
Some are saying that Kagawa needs to prove himself in order to get game time.
Has Fellaini proved himself to justify the amount of game time he has been afforded?
Not as far as i can tell, however he is being picked because Moyes has an obligation to play him. Moyes needs to prove that Fellaini was a good buy and not a panic/lazy buy.

Fellaini isn't better than a fit Anderson or Cleverly, and even ancient Giggs has more dynamism in the centre.
So, it's easier to not pick Kagawa/Anderson etc. than not to pick Fellaini.

Moyes is clueless, i had hopes for him...
 
I love how people just think that by offering him back to Dortmund we'd be free to take one of their best players in return (for a little bit of money, of course).
 
Never made sense to bring Kagawa in (Shinji has to take blame for that as well, IMHO) when SAF wasn't going to adapt the formation & play to suit his style. It resulted in square peg, round hole and it never changed. Back to Dortmund would be smart.
 
The thing is, he's just a Wayne Rooney injury away from being a very important player for us (at least I'd hope so - if Moyes decided that Welbeck were the one to replace Rooney, then I'd lose any last hope I had for Moyes.)
 
FCBarca said:
(Shinji has to take blame for that as well, IMHOa)
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Bit harsh - if a top European club is coming in with a bag-load of cash for you, I think it's fair to assume they want to play you. I'm sure he was given lots of lines about how important he was going to be - you can hardly expect players to carry out massive in-depth assessments of whether the buying manager is telling the truth. Maybe if your joining a sugar-daddy club as their 10th big money signing in the same position (hello Chelsea midfield), but not in Shinji's situation.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Bit harsh - if a top European club is coming in with a bag-load of cash for you, I think it's fair to assume they want to play you. I'm sure he was given lots of lines about how important he was going to be - you can hardly expect players to carry out massive in-depth assessments of whether the buying manager is telling the truth. Maybe if your joining a sugar-daddy club as their 10th big money signing in the same position (hello Chelsea midfield), but not in Shinji's situation.
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Ordinarily, I'd agree. Except when you look at all the variables, IMHO. One, he was at Dortmund - the up & coming club that plays exciting/attacking football, was valued by both club & fans. Two, he came to a club where wingers are the position of importance and should've had some assurances about where/how he was going to be played.

Maybe SAF assured him of that, maybe he didn't but even a player has to accept some responsibility for making career decisions that he'd happily do differently given the chance
 
FCBarca said:
Ordinarily, I'd agree. Except when you look at all the variables, IMHO. One, he was at Dortmund - the up & coming club that plays exciting/attacking football, was valued by both club & fans. Two, he came to a club where wingers are the position of importance and should've had some assurances about where/how he was going to be played.

Maybe SAF assured him of that, maybe he didn't but even a player has to accept some responsibility for making career decisions that he'd happily do differently given the chance
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I very much doubt players look at all that. If a big club comes in most of them jump ship.
 
I still think Shinji should have stayed for 2 more years in Dortmund. Back then it looked like pressure from his family and the importance of making it in the Premier League because of the far superior standing of English football in Japan made the decision for him. Of course, it's difficult to say, but a few comments by Klopp sounded like Kagawa himself wasn't convinced that it's the right choice. I think United came too early for Kagawa and maybe Kagawa also came to early for United. He's a great fit for all the pressing/quick transition teams out there, but he's not a great fit for a team that only started a transition that so far no one knows where it leads.
 
Will be good to see him play this week. Given his lack of chances, unfortunately he has to make it count, so he needs to have a good one.

Hopefully an early goal for us can open the game up and give him some room to work in.
 
jem said:
The thing is, he's just a Wayne Rooney injury away from being a very important player for us (at least I'd hope so - if Moyes decided that Welbeck were the one to replace Rooney, then I'd lose any last hope I had for Moyes.)
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One of our best individual performances of last season came with Welbeck playing in that role against Madrid. It's not as absurd an idea as you make out. In fact, his ability and willingness to drop deep and help the midfield may prove useful at the moment.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Will be good to see him play this week. Given his lack of chances, unfortunately he has to make it count, so he needs to have a good one.

Hopefully an early goal for us can open the game up and give him some room to work in.
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It'll be a good chance for him to stake a claim to that first team spot. I expect Sociedad to come and press us, so if Kagawa can deal with this whilst being a threat then I think he'll have done well. I hope he can put in a good shift and push Rooney for his position.
 
I'd love to see him get a chance in the #10 role on Wednesday but I imagine Moyes will play it safe with Rooney behind RvP and Valencia and Welbeck on the wings.
 
I would actually like to see Kagawa accomodated in some shape or form, he can play behind the front men, in fact they could rotate, coming deep to get the ball. Let's see him get some game time in the Champions League on Wednesday.
 
If we can use him at bait to get Gundogan, so be it.

I think that is a signing that is out of our league though. We just don't get players of that proven quality from our transfer operations.
 
Kagawa isn't going to get a sniff. Rooney has preferential treatment and Januzaj has inscribed his name on the first team sheet.

Shame it didn't work out. Worst thing about this is that you just know he's going to be a huge success elsewhere.
 
Kagawa needs more chances and we all know that.

He also needs to play better. First of all, he needs to learn to deal with the physicality of the league. No, he doesn't have to gain 20 pounds of muscle overnight, he simply needs to know how to use his skill and foot speed without getting knocked down.

It took Park a while, but by his second season he knew how to effectively press and harass bigger players without falling over all the time. Park still fell and got outmuscled but not to the extent that Kagawa does.

In Kagawa's appearances he should be trying to improve instead of trying to hard to impress. It happens to great players. Look at Tevez when he was dropped when Berbatov got here. He had a hard time making the most of his limited opportunities.

If Kagawa is as good as everyone says he is, he will improve and adjust him game to suit Moyes and the English League.
 
KingMinger22 said:
If we can use him at bait to get Gundogan, so be it.

I think that is a signing that is out of our league though. We just don't get players of that proven quality from our transfer operations.
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Seriously, this is pretty much the only thing you ever post. What's the point?

Constant moaning about transfers and the money we never pay.
 
Devil may care said:
I think he may ask for a loan in January given that it's a World Cup year.
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I wouldn't begrudge him one.

Shinji is extremely unfortunate, he got his dream move to Old Trafford and a month or so later van Persie became available, effectively shoving him out of position.
 
He's not played out of position. He plays on the left for japan. Its just that moyes is a tactical dinosaur who doesnt lnow how to try a formation that suits his players better and instead go for a stupid 442.
 
Sir Alex talking more about how good of a player he is and expecting him to play more as the season goes on. Hopefully he's right.
 
bosnian_red said:
Sir Alex talking more about how good of a player he is and expecting him to play more as the season goes on. Hopefully he's right.
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Did he say that during the news conference for hsi book?

Had SAF stayed on for just one more year i really do think that circumstances would be different, Fergie was on his way to establishing yet another United team and Shinji was going to be a key part of that IMO.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Did he say that during the news conference for hsi book?

Had SAF stayed on for just one more year i really do think that circumstances would be different, Fergie was on his way to establishing yet another United team and Shinji was going to be a key part of that IMO.
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Yup, and I agree. He said many times last season how Kagawa would show how good he is this season, after 1 season of bedding in, but then him retiring was the worst thing that could have happened to Kagawa probably. Pretty much makes all the people who doubt Shinji wrong, when he quite clearly is so talented and should be starting for us. You can tell also that he was kind of holding back and not wanting to criticize Moyes for not playing him, choosing his words wisely. He did say he expects that he'll play a bigger role as the season goes on though.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Did he say that during the news conference for hsi book?

Had SAF stayed on for just one more year i really do think that circumstances would be different, Fergie was on his way to establishing yet another United team and Shinji was going to be a key part of that IMO.
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Not contradicting you but out of interest, what makes you say that? It wasnt like Kagawa saw much action last season either. If SAF was really all for pushing Rooney out and ushering Kagawa in I just wonder why we didnt see more evidence of it in his final months.
 
Adebesi said:
Not contradicting you but out of interest, what makes you say that? It wasnt like Kagawa saw much action last season either. If SAF was really all for pushing Rooney out and ushering Kagawa in I just wonder why we didnt see more evidence of it in his final months.
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I was thinking this. Especially once Fergie knew he was going... if Shinji was the future, then leaving him unplayed and unproven didn't exactly help his chances with the new manager.
 
Kagawa not getting a chance at all is extremely bizarre. Moyes would rather play Fellaini in the hole and Young on the wings than give Kagawa a chance. I really can't see him staying beyond the summer and I don't really want him to, no point being here if he isn't going to play.
 
KingMinger22 said:
If we can use him at bait to get Gundogan, so be it.

I think that is a signing that is out of our league though. We just don't get players of that proven quality from our transfer operations.
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Yes, I think signing one of Dortmund's best players is out of question for us.
 
Adebesi said:
Not contradicting you but out of interest, what makes you say that? It wasnt like Kagawa saw much action last season either. If SAF was really all for pushing Rooney out and ushering Kagawa in I just wonder why we didnt see more evidence of it in his final months.
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Considering the injuries and need to adapt to his new surroundings, 22 appearances wasn't exactly the wilderness. And maybe it is my a mixture of memory and hopes for his prospects, yet my recollections is that were seeing some promising signs in the latter months of the season.

Seeing as Fergie was the one who pushed for Kagawa's acquisition, it is reasonable to assume that he would be more determined to make the move work for the player and the club [all the more so in light of his growing disillusionment with Rooney].
 
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