Here's one: Kagawa isn't going to be a star for you, nor is he going to leave anytime soon. He'll get some more games out of position, learn the trade well enough to be a decent squad player for you, have a few spells of very good form to ignite hopes but no more than that. In 2-3 years he will move on to make way for a player the manager is more hopeful for. He won't rediscover his former level at his new club either, but he'll look a bit better as a big fish in a smaller pond.
Shinji Kagawa
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
Here's one: Kagawa isn't going to be a star for you, nor is he going to leave anytime soon. He'll get some more games out of position, learn the trade well enough to be a decent squad player for you, have a few spells of very good form to ignite hopes but no more than that. In 2-3 years he will move on to make way for a player the manager is more hopeful for. He won't rediscover his former level at his new club either, but he'll look a bit better as a big fish in a smaller pond.
Except that won't happen.
Yes, he will become one of our best players.
If he named you 20 examples, what would it prove?
Irrelevant. He has played half a seasons worth of football for us so far, in a new league, mostly not in his ideal position and with injuries inbetween. I've seen enough from Dortmund and enough through glimpses here to think he has the qualities to be a star player. I'm not going to write him off based on him not shining consistently in his first 20 odd games here.
It's irrelevant because if I couldn't name you a player, it doesn't mean Kagawa can't be a star player for us, likewise if there were lots of examples, it doesn't really mean anything either.
The point is you should judge from what you've seen and the circumstances he's faced, not what other footballers have done in completely different situations.
Young player, new league, wrong position, inconsistent starts, multiple injuries, new manager, 24 games, glimpses of brilliance.
That's enough for me.
The point is you should judge from what you've seen and the circumstances he's faced, not what other footballers have done in completely different situations.
Young player, new league, wrong position, inconsistent starts, multiple injuries, new manager, 24 games, glimpses of brilliance.
That's enough for me.
Bizarrely enough he's not even making that up...
Hence the inflated ego and belief that he appreciates modern football.
ugh, you're so negative about Kagawa Hectic, I can see why Mad_Winger gets so defensive of him here.
"Fighting the fight"Bizarrely enough he's not even making that up...
Not trying to be facetious here, but even if every other playmaker had a very good spell in German, came to the EPL and looked subdued by his standards and managed to turn it around, it has absolute no bearing or relevance in the slightest on Kagawa, in fact, I'd put forward that we as fans have more to do with it than whether past players have turned it around...
Not a dig at you, but a lot seem to do this; estimating the projection/path of one player, based on another player who is completely different.
"Modern football vs traditionalism " OMG
His profile page is like the Redcafe equiveleant of the United Facebook page.
I know that once you roll 10 sixes in a row, you're still just as likely to roll a 6 as you are a 3, but this isn't just random probability where preceding cases say nothing about future ones.
If people struggled for 18 months and then became star players at the top clubs all the time we wouldn't be having the same discussion because the precedent would be different.
Precedent tells us something about the difficulties being faced in such a situation and how surmountable they are, especially when the precedent seems to point strongly in one direction.
Kagawa has a mountain to climb to turn it around to be one of your best players. Maybe he is the sort to do that, but he'd be a rarity in such case.
Bizarrely enough he's not even making that up...
Hence the inflated ego and belief that he appreciates modern football.
That is bad, Brwned.
Still hilarious though.
I get what you are trying to say, but there are too many variables such as mental abilities, how does he adjust to life in general in UK? New Language/food/culture, New team mates, club, different league.
My point is, doesn't matter if 15 have been successful before him, unless they came from a similar place, lead a similar life, were similar people/players then perhaps you can start to draw on this as a precedent, from which to move forward on.
Saying X playmaker's did Y, has no relevance/bearing whether Kagawa will affect Y. I do get what you are saying, but the similarity they have is that they are human, beyond that, everyone is far too different I think to be able to do this.
I think the main difficulty he faces really is that he has lost his top level in his head. When that goes, it's not easy to recover. And that is, imo, something you can generalise about sporting performance and psychology.
Definitely, lets be more specific to Kagawa's case, yes I would agree with your statement, but add that he has every chance of completely going against the mould or the 'generalised view/expectation'. Also, I'd agree the problem is physcological, but i'd also argue that whether a playmaker has previously done it, or a striker, perhaps it may be more telling if Kagawa were compared to another young Japanese player who moved to a top European league, than again when young.... For which, I'd imagine there aren't too many examples
And how exactly do you know what's going on inside his head? I'm sure being in a new club, in a new league, going from head playmaker to fringe left winger has more to do with his performance dip than losing the top part of his head.
Does he still see himself as a new player ? Isn't it time that he starts to play with more audacity ?
If I had to guess all those were the causes of him losing that. But Kagawa has always struck me as a player who found the extra level in his head moreso than stature of talent.
Those things are things that good players adapt to, though. His confidence has probably taken a knock but I'm sure he'll sort himself out. He's got the quality to be a good player for us, he just needs to find his form.
My guest book is only the tip of the iceberg. You lot should have seen my inbox
But seriously; how often do people bother to send messages to people they agree with on an online forum? If people bother to go through such troubles only to let me know that a random dude on the internet "supports" me, then that has to count for something. It's not that I would have stopped posting without these messages though. I'm too stubborn for that. But it's still cool to know that some people read my stuff and like what they see. If a handful of people(and then some) bother to send me messages, then one can only begin to wonder just how many people support me in silence.
This was never really of importance to me, though. I just wanted to add my input to the discussion. Nothing more.
Having said that, now that I know that people are reading my stuff and that I'm not just another fish in the crowd, I'm gonna try to change my approach for a bit. From now on, I will not reply to any of your posts in this particular thread. I will still keep writing, though. I will write my opinion on Kagawa's performances, news, and generally my opinion on how to include him better to our tactics and formations.
This way, we all win(at least a little). My posting rate is gonna get reduced drastically when I don't have to reply to shitty comments, this thread is gonna get less messy, and I still get to say my opinion.
Stay tuned, fanZ
HaterZ gonna hate
But seriously; how often do people bother to send messages to people they agree with on an online forum? If people bother to go through such troubles only to let me know that a random dude on the internet "supports" me, then that has to count for something. It's not that I would have stopped posting without these messages though. I'm too stubborn for that. But it's still cool to know that some people read my stuff and like what they see. If a handful of people(and then some) bother to send me messages, then one can only begin to wonder just how many people support me in silence.
This was never really of importance to me, though. I just wanted to add my input to the discussion. Nothing more.
Having said that, now that I know that people are reading my stuff and that I'm not just another fish in the crowd, I'm gonna try to change my approach for a bit. From now on, I will not reply to any of your posts in this particular thread. I will still keep writing, though. I will write my opinion on Kagawa's performances, news, and generally my opinion on how to include him better to our tactics and formations.
This way, we all win(at least a little). My posting rate is gonna get reduced drastically when I don't have to reply to shitty comments, this thread is gonna get less messy, and I still get to say my opinion.
Stay tuned, fanZ
HaterZ gonna hate
fecking delusional
#FreeShinji
Jesus fecking christ.
Guys let's take the Kagawa debate to MadWinger's profile page.
Kagawa is Japaneze
A solid approach.
Anyone would think MW is the first person to ever have a bit of an obsession with a player.
Bizarrely enough he's not even making that up...
Hence the inflated ego and belief that he appreciates modern football.
Abuse of powers
Now go finish the job with those smart 'modern' newbies who can see part of the games that 'traditionalists' (everybody) in the main can't.What I loved most was: 'keep the good fight against the Rooney lovers'.
Stay tuned, fanZ
HaterZ gonna hate
You must be proud of youself for defending a player that most of the caftards hate with a passion. I can only feel how hard is to be one of the few who puts himself at risk of getting crucified everytime you defend him. Can I post you a PM cause I am a bit afraid here to post something good about Shinji. I am not brave as you.
Kagawa will make it here. His touch, awareness, vision, dribbling, passing and shooting are all top notch. He also works hard, so being a Berbatov won't be a problem.
He needs to deal with the physicality of the league better. I know he is small but you don't have to get huge overnight to deal with bigger and stronger players. Yes, strengthening will obviously help but it is experience that will surely help the most.
I hate comparing another Asian player to Park but they both did well in their respective countries, moved to Europe and did well and then made the big move to United. They are both small players too.
Park always had the great work-rate and a very good skill set. But his first two seasons here polarized quite a few of our fans. He fell over way way too much. Kagawa, who has even more quality, falls and gets pushed off the ball all the time and it gets frustrating.
I think it took Park until his third year here to gain Fergie's confidence and then he was starting all of our biggest games. Kagawa was good last year and showed good production for his first season. He had a bad injury but still put up some decent numbers and showed his creativity quite a bit.
Kagawa will simply get better and better here because he is a fantastic footballer with all the traits to be a star Man United player except for strength. I am confident he can work on this and learn how to play against the giants in the Premier League.
He needs to deal with the physicality of the league better. I know he is small but you don't have to get huge overnight to deal with bigger and stronger players. Yes, strengthening will obviously help but it is experience that will surely help the most.
I hate comparing another Asian player to Park but they both did well in their respective countries, moved to Europe and did well and then made the big move to United. They are both small players too.
Park always had the great work-rate and a very good skill set. But his first two seasons here polarized quite a few of our fans. He fell over way way too much. Kagawa, who has even more quality, falls and gets pushed off the ball all the time and it gets frustrating.
I think it took Park until his third year here to gain Fergie's confidence and then he was starting all of our biggest games. Kagawa was good last year and showed good production for his first season. He had a bad injury but still put up some decent numbers and showed his creativity quite a bit.
Kagawa will simply get better and better here because he is a fantastic footballer with all the traits to be a star Man United player except for strength. I am confident he can work on this and learn how to play against the giants in the Premier League.
- Status