Why did Moyes get rid of our backroom team in favour of Evertons?

afrocentricity

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I'm starting a new thread as I don't know which one of the multiple Moyes threads to put this in, plus I don't want to go off on some unrelated tangent. I just want to know the thinking behind getting rid of our successful management team and bringing in his Everton staff? Why couldn't there have been some kind of compromise?

The thread will probably only be a page long but I just want someone to explain to me why it was a good idea.
 
If there already is a thread for this point me in the right direction pls...
 
Old guys didn't want to work for new guy/new guy wants to bring in his own team.

At that level of managment, whether it's a sports team or a business, the new boss almost alyways brings in his own trusted staff.
 
Nothing wrong with that decision. He trusts them much more than our previous coaches.

However, I would argue that they're producing feck all right now in terms of improving our play and players. We've only digressed, often giving the impression that we do very little coaching in between games (we do). So I don't know. Right now they all look incompetent and bereft of new ideas, the manager, the coaches, the entire management. Hopefully if they're doing something useful behind the scenes it starts to show at some point.
 
Dwazza Van Porschie said:
Old guys didn't want to work for new guy/new guy wants to bring in his own team.

At that level of managment, whether it's a sports team or a business, the new boss almost alyways brings in his own trusted staff.
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Is it confirmed that the old guys didn't want to work with him?
 
afrocentricity said:
Is it confirmed that the old guys didn't want to work with him?
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Doesn't really need confirmation, imo. Not many in that situation would.

People are looking for any reason to explain why our form is so off. For me it is simply down to the regime change. After 27 years of Fergie as manager there is a massive void; Moyes has balls of steel for taking the job...he's done well all things considered.
 
Maybe I have a lot to learn about how things are done at that level, but if it were me I would at least have tried to keep on some experienced backroom staff... Giggs & Rio are experienced players but their experience only goes so far...
 
Remember Giggs,,Phil Neville are all a part of the staff.
 
It could be that Rene & Mike had bigger ambitions.
 
It's very sad isn't it. I mean, we're all happy that he kept Giggs on and has introduced Phil Neville as coaches, thats the United blood going through right there, but aside from that it's a bit of a royal feck up.

And I don't mean any disrespect to Round and the like by this, but the continuation of the last 7 ridiculously successful years was what we all hoped would happen. The moment you lose those key staff members and that continuation, you can never get it back. We could have overhauled the staff at any time, got in a Mourinho with his own team, but the chance to do a Barcelona and promote from within and maintain the structure that already exists... that opportunity is a one-time offer.

So the answer: Moyes trusted the people around him from Everton (and knew they wouldn't stab him in the back).
 
It's very rare that a manager comes in and keeps the old back room team. Also, Fergie handed off a lot of coaching responsibility to Rene and Mike but Moyes gets himself involved a lot more than Fergie so they weren't necessarily required.

Also, from what I gather Rene was given the chance to stay but chose to move on.

The only change I was worried about was losing the GK coach but it doesn't seem to have had any adverse effect with de Gea.
 
I think it was a big mistake to let the old staff leave, and David Gill, at the same time as Fergie. I don't know if it was possible to keep any of them or delay Gill leaving but I think things would be in better shape if we could have.
 
The more I think about it (I was a bit miffed at the time) this season was always going to be a struggle. If the managers at my job all left and complete strangers came in, unproven at that, there would probably be communication/motivation/trust issues, etc... and I'm relatively passive in comparison to the characters that are at United.
 
He trusted them is the most likely scenario. Not neccesarily wrong. Most of the managers bring their own staff when they change jobs, though was Moyes old/new staff good enough is a good question. Personally I think that a compromise should have been found but it looks that he thought that his staff was capable of doing a job, and rightly or wrongly, he will get judged for that if they are not.
 
Dwazza Van Porschie said:
Trust, for one. Would you rather work with people you know or start the biggest job in sport with guys who remain loyal to the old regime?
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Trust, obviously Moyes trusts his colleagues just like our players trust the old management. A compromise might have led to an easier transition, you have a few people around who you trust while you gain the trust/learn to trust others... I dunno, it obviously makes sense to some of you but I honestly can't see it...

Revan said:
Personally I think that a compromise should have been found but it looks that he thought that his staff was capable of doing a job, and rightly or wrongly, he will get judged for that if they are not.
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It's entirely possible that he'll turn it around, what do I know? I cant help thinking it was all a bit hasty... abrupt, but maybe like some of you say it's the only way to do it.
 
How much of Swansea's coaching staff did Rodgers take to Liverpool? After Rodgers, Swansea went for Laudrup who presumably didnt have his own backroom staff. And they went for solely for the whole "continuation" thing
 
Dwazza Van Porschie said:
Trust, for one. Would you rather work with people you know or start the biggest job in sport with guys who remain loyal to the old regime?
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It's not like the old regime was sacked. I think it was a mistake to make such a wholesale change on top of the massive change that had already been forced on us with Gill and SAF stepping down.
 
afrocentricity said:
It's entirely possible that he'll turn it around, what do I know? I cant help thinking it was all a bit hasty... abrupt, but maybe like some of you say it's the only way to do it.
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I agree with you. If Pep/Klopp came, he would have done the same but that wouldn't have been a problem because we know how well his sides play. On the other side, I haven't seen anything on Everton play to suggest that his staff is that good. If he thinks that they are though, well it is a decision like all others which could give dividents if they are or be a main reason for his failures if they are not.
 
Rado_N said:
It's not like the old regime was sacked. I think it was a mistake to make such a wholesale change on top of the massive change that had already been forced on us with Gill and SAF stepping down.
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True, but by keeping on Mick and Rene Moyes would have risked situations where he would be second guessed in front of the players. Imagine in training MOyes starts something and Mick says "Well, Fergie used to do it like this..." You'd lose the players in a heartbeat. Bringing in his own men ensured this type of scenario would not happen.
 
Loyalty over foresight and wisdom; insecurities about his authority; the need for a comfort blanket, one or all of these.

If he had kept just one of Phelan or Rene on for this season i believe the team would have benefited and Moyes learnt a few things.
 
Dwazza Van Porschie said:
True, but by keeping on Mick and Rene Moyes would have risked situations where he would be second guessed in front of the players. Imagine in training MOyes starts something and Mick says "Well, Fergie used to do it like this..." You'd lose the players in a heartbeat. Bringing in his own men ensured this type of scenario would not happen.
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I'm pretty confident that Mick would never be so unprofessional.

He was running the club for the last 5 years, remember.
 
Revan said:
I agree with you. If Pep/Klopp came, he would have done the same but that wouldn't have been a problem because we know how well his sides play. On the other side, I haven't seen anything on Everton play to suggest that his staff is that good. If he thinks that they are though, well it is a decision like all others which could give dividents if they are or be a main reason for his failures if they are not.
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I think that's my problem Revan, I don't really have any trust in Moyes staff wrt to United because they haven't shown that they can handle a situation like United. They aren't coming from Bayern or some other club that has had success and is of comparable stature. I don't trust them and no doubt neither do the players... I don't distrust Moyes, I don't know anything other than the fact that he was picked by SAF and that works for me. Didn't hear him recommending the rest though, would love to know what he thinks about it.
 
It's my biggest gripe with Moyes and my biggest fear for Fellaini.


When we signed Carrick back in 06', I was pleased. I thought "well he's not perfect yet and he's only been working with the WHU/Spurs coaches but there is massive potential there and we have the staff to fulfill it".

When we signed Fellaini in 13' I thought "well he's far from perfect yet and he's only been working with the Everton staff and manager. Now he's got the chance to work with the Everton staff and manager..."
 
It made sense from the personal perspective but not from the perspective of what was best for the club. Moyes was always going to embark on what would have been a steep learning curve regardless of who his coaching staff was. I don't think it helped in the respect that almost everyone around him was to be on a steep or even steeper curve themselves.

A manager taking his right-hand-man is usual but essentially replacing the entire senior coaching staff with those who either had no experience coaching at the level required or no experience of coaching at all, wasn't the best of moves. Ryan Giggs and Phil Neville may know where the spare cones are kept for training but despite familiarity with the players they were and still are novice coaches working under an assistant who is new to both the club and this level of football and the manager for whom the same can be said.

To be honest it wouldn't have taken Nostradamus to predict at the time it could cause problems.
 
If someone like Jose had come in and done it, no one would have questioned it even if he was failing in the same way. Rather than this question, I am more interested in knowing how much command Moyes gets in the dressing room?
 
I think it was his biggest mistake. Even if he had given them a season. Moyes admitted himself that the job was far bigger than he could ever have imagined so having some help in terms of backroom dealings with players etc would have eased the burden on him.
 
Usually when a manager usually goes it is because things have started to go wrong, which is advantageous to the incoming manager who is seen as part of the solution. But when a manager retires at the top the incoming manager has to battle against the perception that nothing should be changed because it is already working. So any changes you try to make are met with resistance and cause further losses to motivation. Plus everyone at United had only ever worked under SAF and probably felt demotivated when he left. So Moyes probably wanted his own people who would not be constantly comparing him and his way of doing things to the ancien regime.

If you think about it, people are constantly talking about a clear out being needed among the players, Moyes needing to bring new people in. Why should that only be the players?
 
There's nothing wrong with doing what he did. The problem is that the guys he brought in to coach this group of players are Steve Round and Phil Neville. Neither of which, I'm convinced, have the slightest clue in regards to creating a progressive, modern football team that can compete with the world's best. Moyes was right in removing our coaching staff, Eric Steele aside, I just don't think his alternatives are any good either.
 
crappycraperson said:
If someone like Jose had come in and done it, no one would have questioned it even if he was failing in the same way. Rather than this question, I am more interested in knowing how much command Moyes gets in the dressing room?
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Unlike Moyes, Jose has experience at a comparable level, and I'm guessing his staff would have too... unlike Moyes staff.
 
Adebesi said:
Usually when a manager usually goes it is because things have started to go wrong, which is advantageous to the incoming manager who is seen as part of the solution. But when a manager retires at the top the incoming manager has to battle against the perception that nothing should be changed because it is already working. So any changes you try to make are met with resistance and cause further losses to motivation. Plus everyone at United had only ever worked under SAF and probably felt demotivated when he left. So Moyes probably wanted his own people who would not be constantly comparing him and his way of doing things to the ancien regime.

If you think about it, people are constantly talking about a clear out being needed among the players, Moyes needing to bring new people in. Why should that only be the players?
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In my opinion this is the perfect explanation for it.
 
Adebesi said:
If you think about it, people are constantly talking about a clear out being needed among the players, Moyes needing to bring new people in. Why should that only be the players?
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When people talk about a clear out wrt to the players it's usually in the context that a given player is under-performing or not up to the required standard. I don't think they were entertaining the thought of getting shot of Van Persie, Rooney and De Gea for example...

The rest of your post makes sense though, and I can understand it. Is it Moyes looking out for Moyes though? Or Moyes looking out for United?
 
True. There is also an element of needing to freshen things up for their own sake, not just get rid of deadwood but also bring in people who owe their alligiance to the new manager, not the old. But yes, point taken.
 
Dwazza Van Porschie said:
Moyes has balls of steel for taking the job...he's done well all things considered.
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Can't agree with these last two points, DrD. No mid-table manager would refuse when offered United job. And, nope, he is far away of 'done well'.
 
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