Shinji Kagawa

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Mad Winger said:
Kagawa was dominant in the J-League from his late teens until he was picked up by Dortmund at age 21. In his first season in Dortmund he made 'Bundesliga Team Of The Year' despite being injured for the second half of the season. In his second season he was even better, and easily one of(if not the best) Dortmund players overall. In his first season for us he was also good. There were only 3 midfielders/wingers/strikers that did better than Kagawa; RVP, Carrick and Rooney(barely). Meanwhile, he's been one of the key players for Japan for the past 3 and half years, being the stand out player in the Asian Cup, winning Asian POTY 2012, and generally playing well against even the strongest national teams in the world.

But yeah, these 5 competitive months under Moyes where he has played less than 500 minutes in the PL, is surely "standard Kagawa". This is his actual level. All that other stuff was just short spells and/or luck:lol::lol:

Or, maybe he's just not working out under Moyes so far? Nah, it can't be that!:rolleyes:
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You can obviously disregard any performances in the J League. In terms of (International) Asian Player of the Year he beat off tough competition from... Mark Schwarzer finishing second.

So far in his career (if Balu is correct) in the Bundesliga he's had (roughly) 6 great months, 6 injured months, 6 average months, 6 great months, followed and 2 poor years in the Premier League. If last season was deemed "good" then that pretty much tells us all you need to know about what constitutes good. At best it was mediocre, with the caveat that he was new to the League.

So in total he's had arguably 2 great half seasons and 3 poor-average half seasons in his top flight career.
 
Mad Winger said:
I'll be the first to admit that Kagawa is not having a very good season in the Premier League.

But why is he having a mediocre season now? Never mind Dortmund and Japan; he was also good for us under Fergie! No, he wasn't brilliant or world class like he was for Dortmund, but he was still good. Significantly better than he is now, anyways. So, what is different this season compared to last? Why is Kagawa so anonymous on the left now, when he's playing with pretty much the same team in the same league? Why isn't he scoring or assisting anymore, when he last season had great stats in this department, almost on par with Hazard for Chelsea? Hmm... Could it be the changes that happened under Moyes?

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Let's look at the huge differences between Kagawa under Fergie and Moyes:

1. Under Fergie, Kagawa started the season by becoming Player Of The Month in August. He also started roughly 5 out of the 6 first PL games, half the time in his favored position if I'm not mistaken. Under Moyes, Kagawa didn't even start the season. He was left out in the cold for more than a month.

2. Under Fergie, Kagawa started roughly 75% of the PL games when he wasn't injured. Under Moyes so far, he's started roughly 35%. It's also worth keeping in mind that Fergie would play Kagawa regardless of form. This is because he was confident in his qualities. And wouldn't you know: it payed off! By the end of the season, Kagawa had become one of our better players, looking sharper each game. Sure, he wasn't nearly as good as he was for Dortmund, but given that he was improving game by game and easily was our best winger, it made perfect sense to continue playing him on the left. Especially considering the fact that switching him to the central position is a powerful weapon.

3. Under Fergie, Kagawa would start even when both Rooney and RVP were fit. Not only that, but he was the often the first option to play in the AM position the moment Rooney or RVP were out. Under Moyes, Kagawa has had a hard time starting regardless of injuries. And he's far from being the first choice in the AM position, even with both Rooney and RVP out.

4. Under Fergie, it was a rarity to see Welbeck play behind the striker when Kagawa was available. Under Moyes, this has slowly become the norm.

5. Under Fergie, we tested out new formations such as the diamond, mainly to fit Kagawa into our side and to compensate for lack of wingers on form. Under Moyes, we've stuck to the flat 4-4-2, despite playing like shit.

6. Under Fergie, we played relatively fluid attacking football with less dependency on width, mainly to make the combination of Rooney, RVP and Kagawa work out. And it did! We didn't lose a single game when these 3 started together, and we won nearly all of them. Under Moyes, we've become more depedent on width than ever(proved by stats), and our attacking football is the worst I've ever seen.

7. Under Fergie we played well. Under Moyes we've been shit. It's pretty well established that Kagawa is a so-called "multiplier" that makes us tick when we play good football. When we play like we do now, he's left standing there, wondering what to do.

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Now, I'm not saying that Kagawa isn't to blame at all. That would be unfair. Of course he ought to do more to leave his mark on the game. Of course he needs to play with more guts. Of course he needs to sort out that insane lack of confidence. But looking at the glaring facts above, it's pretty fecking obvious why he isn't playing well anymore. How can we expect him to play with confidence when he's given only a fraction of the trust he enjoyed under Fergie? He's playing much less, he's behind Welbeck in the AM pecking order, and to top it off Moyes just doesn't seem to think that playing with a playmaker is necessary, neither on the left nor behind the striker. Compared to Fergie and his Kagawa vision, he's taking the exact opposite direction.

While Kagawa is more suited for the likes of Dortmund, Barca, Arsenal etc, I don't believe for a second that he can't adapt to us and play almost equally well. We only have to try and meet him on the half-way, like Fergie did. Moyes fails to see the value of this, and that is partly why we fail.

People need to stop thinking that the current Kagawa is typical "United Kagawa". It's just plain wrong. Last season he was good. This season he's not. And the facts above gives us an idea why.
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So much revisionism in this post my head hurts.
 
Unless he nails down a first team spot soon lets just hope kloppo still has a hard on for him and we can do a player + cash to get reuss next season.

it is a waste for him to be on our bench or in the stand but given the form of rooney he is going to struggle to play in his batural position and so far the wing has not looked good for him
 
Anyone who thinks Reus will join us is dreaming if you ask me. I'd bet Chelsea would be in for him if we were and he'd choose them.
 
Think I side with Sphaero on this one. His mental strength and toughness have to be questioned at this point. I really like the player and his approach to the game (in good form obviously) but he's not done good enough for us. The system doesnt favor him and he's not really had much of a consistent run here. On the flip side, to get a run in this side generally, you have to perform unless your name is Antonio Valencia.

I also don't think he has the trust of his teammates either and I can see why. He hasnt done much to sort of win that trust and it seems like here at United, we adhere to these kind of values. I admit, I could be talking bollocks but just pontificating on the state of affairs.

I've come to the conclusion thus far, he's a good player who just came to us at the wrong time. He wants to succeed here but it's just not working out. Here's his last interview:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...e-never-found-it-so-hard-to-score-says-kagawa
The Manchester United playmaker arrived at Old Trafford in 2012 and has struggled to win a place in the starting XI, netting just six goals in his 40 appearances for the Red Devils
Manchester United playmaker Shinji Kagawa has bemoaned his goalscoring form at Old Trafford, insisting he must improve.

Since joining the club in 2012 the Japan international has failed to make a lasting impression at United, appearing irregularly in the starting XI and notching just six goals for the first team.

It is in stark contrast to his form at Borussia Dortmund, where he was a key member of Jurgen Klopp's side and Kagawa believes he must rediscover that level of performance at Old Trafford.

He told reporters: "I've never had so much trouble not being able to score goals. Right now it's just trial and error.

"The season's still continuing, so I just have to find a way to recover my form. This is my big challenge."

Kagawa was one of many underwhelming performances in United's 2-1 home defeat to Swansea in the FA Cup third round, but could have the opportunity to make amends on Tuesday at Sunderland in the Capital One Cup semi-final first leg.
 
This is only one play but I'm just posting this for those who said he was pointless. It doesnt necessarily back up my point that he was trying to make something happen throughout the game but it is one example.


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Best he's played all season, and lo and behold, he's behind the striker.

Whodathunkit?
 
Worth noting Kagawa, and United, have been so much better since he moved into the middle.

That said, Januzaj has great impact on the right, the left, the middle... whereas Kags needs that central role.
 
Duafc said:
Worth noting Kagawa, and United, have been so much better since he moved into the middle.

That said, Januzaj has great impact on the right, the left, the middle... whereas Kags needs that central role.
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More down to the fact that we've played with purpose and pace rather than any change in position imo

He's even tackling now!
 
akash02 said:
More down to the fact that we've played with purpose and pace rather than any change in position imo

He's even tackling now!
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He's a player that draws from the sum of the whole, definitely.. but in the middle he dictates our pace and purpose, whereas outwide he responds only.

he's just missed a sitter after stepping inside so well.
 
Name Changed said:
Kagawa has been quality in the second half. He is so much better in the hole.
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So much better when his chin is up. Really found his confidence this season half and that's let him find himself.
 
This is the first time I've seen him where he didn't look like falling over everytime he had the ball at his feet.
 
I really wanted him to score that goal for his confidence sake. Decent performance anyway
 
It's a matter of confidence for him, more games playing in the middle and he'll get much better. He also seems to be developing an understanding with adnan, which is great to see.
 
Just said int he post match thread. He was the difference. Called it at half time too. Against these passing teams we need two holding MF and someone like Kagawa to get around them and to open them up. So happy for him.
 
Irwhine said:
Just said int he post match thread. He was the difference. Called it at half time too. Against these passing teams we need two holding MF and someone like Kagawa to get around them and to open them up. So happy for him.
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The difference was Januzaj. Kagawa played well in the second half but a goal would do him wonders right now.
 
Great game from him, a goal would do him a world of good thoug. A fully confident kagawa could have had another 2 goals probably. Let's hope he keeps his spot behind the striker with januzaj on the wing, because him, januzaj, welbeck and evra were linking up excellently.
 
The entire team and Shinji rode on confidence today and I think that's the medicine for the future. If everyone dare to make runs, up the tempo, pass and move then a display like today should become more regular.
 
He's absolutely shocking on the left for us. Not a slight on his ability but he's shocking there. Still can't believe Moyes played him there before Januzaj. Better in the hole, but needs to be sharper and more clinical on the ball.
 
Skywarden said:
The entire team and Shinji rode on confidence today and I think that's the medicine for the future. If everyone dare making runs, up the tempo, pass and move then a display like today should become more regular.
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That was the key really. They just couldn't deal with our movement because of the pace at we were playing which suits Kagawa perfectly
 
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