Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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My opinion on him is that he's not good enough, never was and never will be, to be a starter for us, and he's certainly not worth his price tag (then again, who is these days?)

However some of these comments are a bit too much. They're not even made in the heat of the moment. We all want a top class midfielder and it's almost certainly not going to be him, but what's done is done. What's important now is "how much of use can he become in a United-shirt?"

I still think his first months as a United player was him playing below the level he's capable of, even if I don't think his skillset suits our midfield at all.

At the very least I harbour hope that he'll become a dependable part of a midfield two that can do a job against most teams without looking like a rabbit in the headlights. At this stage I'd be delighted if he became a good squad player for us, and I'll obviously support him as a United player as long as he wears our colours.
 
This is where I disagree with the many, many people on here who constantly claim it is futile assessing a player based on how much you paid for him. Because I think Felliaini is a really useful player to have around, who will do a good job for us, who will hopefully even transcend his impressive performances at Everton and rise to the challenge of being a United player. In that sense Im glad we have him. But he is not worth the money we paid for him, or put another way, that money could have been far better spent elsewhere. But as time goes by and he starts putting in decent performances for us itll be easier to move past that and just appreciate him for what he is and does.

But also I guess I dont like making the assumption that I know what he is capable of. "Not good enough, never was and never will be": its a figure of speech but to be literal minded about it, I dont like it, I said he can rise to the challenge of being a United player but I wouldnt like to put a ceiling on how far he can take that, Im going to keep my fingers crossed and my mind open about it. Some players really thrive on the challenge of being a United player and the higher quality they have around them and I refuse to rule out him going on to be one of those players. Again with the blind Moyes trust, but Moyes knows him better than any of us could and having broken the bank to bring him here, hopefully sees something in him that some of us havent seen yet. Hope hope hope.

Anyway, Im looking forward to having him back.
 
Kid Cunto said:
In all seriousness, we haven't missed him. I don't think it's coincidental that our best form this season has coincided with his absence.
Having said that, I'd give him a run in the side over Cleverley when he returns.
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3 loses in a row too Cunto.
 
Adebesi said:
But also I guess I dont like making the assumption that I know what he is capable of. "Not good enough, never was and never will be": its a figure of speech but to be literal minded about it, I dont like it, I said he can rise to the challenge of being a United player but I wouldnt like to put a ceiling on how far he can take that, Im going to keep my fingers crossed and my mind open about it. Some players really thrive on the challenge of being a United player and the higher quality they have around them and I refuse to rule out him going on to be one of those players. Again with the blind Moyes trust, but Moyes knows him better than any of us could and having broken the bank to bring him here, hopefully sees something in him that some of us havent seen yet. Hope hope hope.

Anyway, Im looking forward to having him back.
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If you're referring to me, that's just my opinion - not a fact. Just because I think he's never going to be good enough to be a quality player for us, starting every match, doesn't mean it won't happen. If we're not going to voice our opinions, though, what's the point of this forum?

I agree with your other sentiments. Time is bandied about as the solution to everything. Perhaps we should've just kept Taibi as our first choice GK for six years?
 
Im not saying you shouldnt have your opinion or getting into a fact versus opinion semantics thing. Im just thinking out loud. Its all shades of grey I guess but Im probably just a little more optimistic than you about it.
 
Adebesi said:
Im not saying you shouldnt have your opinion or getting into a fact versus opinion semantics thing. Im just thinking out loud. Its all shades of grey I guess but Im probably just a little more optimistic than you about it.
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I guess a lot of the pessimism comes from the fact we were desperate for an injection of quality, and ended up with what was perceived to be a very underwhelming midfield signing for £28 million.

When people have got over the initial period of disappointment, it's going to be easier to discuss realistically what he can or can't bring to the table, without the price tag being at the front of people's minds.

Unfortunately I don't think he'll ever be able to shake off that feeling of disappointment. It's not his fault, but the way last summer panned out he's basically ended up being the one who's supposed to solve our midfield problems - and he's ended up being the "proof" that Moyes, so far, doesn't have the nous needed in the transfer market.

Thinking about it, I'm probably quite pessimistic all in all when it comes to his career here, with those odds and his abilities considered. But you never know, I hope he proves me utterly, utterly, wrong. (Along with Moyes)
 
Yes, it probably doesnt help, the circumstances he arrived in. He'll probably continue to personify that shambolic transfer window for years to come unless he really raises his game to new heights, just because of the emotions that were flying around at that time: the sadness about SAF leaving; the excitement about an unknown future; the hope and raised expectations that came with all the comments Moyes and Woodward made early in the window; and ultimately the disappointment that, in the end, it all culminated with him. It wasnt the best starting off point and it probably added to the pressure it all placed on him to some extent - Im sure he was aware of all of that. So yes, it is easy to see why people are so underwhelmed and where that pessimism comes from.
 
When Fellaini isn't forced into a 2 man midfield, he will show his worth.

He's clearly designed for a more continental 3 man midfield, where he doesn't have to rely on being a marathon runner and can let the ball do the work for him.
 
I don't think the pressure of the price tag does him any favours or United underperforming as a whole, I think he'll come good, perhaps not £30 million worth of player, but I think he'll become a decent squad player.
 
Sell him in the summer. Put the £10m or so towards getting a couple of top quality central midfielders. Sir Alex could afford to be patient with questionable signings, Moyes simply doesn't have the time or the margin for error.
 
Adam-Utd said:
When Fellaini isn't forced into a 2 man midfield, he will show his worth.

He's clearly designed for a more continental 3 man midfield, where he doesn't have to rely on being a marathon runner and can let the ball do the work for him.
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Isn't this true of every single midfielder on the planet? Of course they are better in a midfield 3; it's 3 people splitting the defensive and offensive duties, rather than two. However this means invariably sacrificing one of our strikers, which under Fergie and Moyes has never really happened.

Moyes knew he was going to play a 4-4-2 because of our strike options and Rooney not wanting to play deep. With this knowledge he decided that Fellaini was a player that would improve us. I personally feel Fellaini will never be mobile enough to partner Carrick and is not good enough under pressure or intelligent enough to play Carrick's role as he did last season. Therefore I really don't see a starting position for him in the team. On performances I'd say both Carrick and Jones are in front of him in the defensive position on merit.

It's a harsh reality but if I was manager I'd be moving him on in the Summer, whilst his reputation is still in tact. We could still get around £15m for him and hopefully bring in a ready made replacement for Carrick who will be 33 by then, in addition to the creative midfielder we've needed for years. This might seem bizarre but can anyone really see a formidable long term midfield partnership forming with Fellaini as one of the components; even next to quality creative midfielder? It won't happen of course as Moyes would be signing his own death wish losing £13m on a player in a year and admitting he was wrong, but the contrast between how Rodgers dealt with Carroll and how Fergie persisted with a failing Berbatov are clear - one left for a good sum of money despite being a flop, the other left for peanuts. I wouldn't be averse to keeping him as a backup player who can also bring a different option off the bench (playing behind a striker) - but does the £15m we could receive justify this role, would Fellaini be happy playing this role and would him taking up a squad position be worthwhile? Possibly.

Before anything is said regarding "time", just like when we signed Ashley Young - I've seen him play for years. They are both big fish in a system built around their qualities, but both are not good enough to adapt to our system (the same is true of Kagawa - although I have only seen his United performances to come to this conclusion).
 
If he can replicate the performances that we've seen from him many times at Everton (and I see no reason why he can't) then he'll be a very useful player for us.
 
Patience has nothing to do with it, most of us have seen him regularly for several seasons and can see how average he is. His best season was as a target man not a CM. Maybe if Rooney leaves in the summer that is what Moyes plans to use him as.
 
He's only played 682 minutes for United (the equivalent of about 7 and a half games) and much of that was spent struggling with a back injury. Give the bugger a chance.

He'll obviously never be Xavi or Iniesta, but Fellaini is every bit as unplayable if you utilise him properly. He could comfortably do the Jones job of dropping between the centrebacks and mopping up attacks, whilst also being versatile enough to take stints up front during games to cause problems in the opposition box. Moyes hasn't had the chance to set up the team to his or anybody else's strengths yet.
 
Devil may care said:
Patience has nothing to do with it, most of us have seen him regularly for several seasons and can see how average he is. His best season was as a target man not a CM. Maybe if Rooney leaves in the summer that is what Moyes plans to use him as.
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Most who have been watching him for for the last couple of seasons will know that he was Everton's most important player under Moyes, that he was being played in a different role to the one he has to now adapt to here and that compared to his time at Everton his performances for us so far have been surprisingly muted and restrained which is normally a sign of a player adjusting to a new position and new surroundings.

But he is perfectly capable of playing that position as it was his natural position up until the last few seasons at Everton(box to box/ball winning CM) and it was always gonna take a while for both him to adjust and with a new manager at the club for that manager to figure out the best way to utilize him amongst a set of players who the manager isn't even overly familiar.

Some need to have far more patience.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I really do wish the word 'ceiling' was banned from all football forums. Along with 'embarrassing' they are the most annoying terms on the go at the moment.
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*Funny response incorporating the word's 'ceiling' and 'embarrassing'*
 
Decotron said:
So you honestly think that what we've seen from him in the last 6 months is his "ceiling"?

Right indeed...
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No, I think what I saw from him at Everton for several years is his ceiling, which is bit part player at United. I'm not judging him off his time at United. Moving to us will not magically make him a better player.
 
Problem is can he form a good partnership with Carrick? I'd prefer a not fully fitted Fletcher to partner Carrick any time, and trust Jones more in CDM role when Carrick is not available.
 
I really hope he can pull off a miracle and become a good player here similar to how Fletcher and Neville were blasted for a few years before becoming class.....But Christ watching Fellaini in a 2 man midfield right now brings back memories or the Djemba twins and Liam Miller in midfield...he's been nothing short of atrocious so far...not looking good but please God he can up his level
 
Sunny Jim said:
you tube vids. seriously i want to see what are people about!
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One of the best individual performances against us over the past couple of years of watching United, he was unplayable that day, no one knew how to tackle him or win the ball off him. A proper target man that can be brilliant to use as a lay off ball.



This one is to prove people wrong who say he isn't mobile at all; he is. What people don't realise was that Fellaini had back problems before he even came here, and is the reason he has been out for so long whilst at the same time recovering from surgery on his wrist. If anyone has ever had back problems before, you would know how hard it is to sit down with one let alone play professional football. Here he provided a great linkup through the middle, as well as being a presence offensively and defensively. Wasn't a world class performance, but kept the midfield ticking against a good passing side.



This one disproves the claim that all he can do is do 5 yard passes; he can do much more, and is actually very smart with his decision making. He also has a better shot than all of our other CMs.

He is probably the best aerial threat in the premier league. He is such a big fella that he can put little effort into putting his body ahead of his man and control the ball with ease, and then is very capable of passing it off to another player. Since our defenders have such an obsession with playing the ball long anyway, it's good to have a player that can make good use out of these long ball situations, as well as having extra dangers in corners and our usual wing play.
 
Sir Matt said:
No, I think what I saw from him at Everton for several years is his ceiling, which is bit part player at United. I'm not judging him off his time at United. Moving to us will not magically make him a better player.
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Right, and no player can improve? Jesus do you know anything about players that have played for us in the past? How many of them have been derided like this only to become very important members of the team?
 
Red Shorts said:


One of the best individual performances against us over the past couple of years of watching United, he was unplayable that day, no one knew how to tackle him or win the ball off him. A proper target man that can be brilliant to use as a lay off ball.
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Oh, just look at this disgusting boring and uninspiring football Everton were playing under Moyes, especially the attack that starts around 50th second.
 
Kostur said:
Oh, just look at this disgusting boring and uninspiring football Everton were playing under Moyes, especially the attack that starts around 50th second.
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Some of the midfield triangles of passing last year from Everton was great football and lovely to watch. They received loads of plaudits for their football last year but that doesn't fit the storyline this year of how Everton are revolutionised from a one dimensional long ball team to the next Barca.
 
Red Shorts said:


One of the best individual performances against us over the past couple of years of watching United, he was unplayable that day, no one knew how to tackle him or win the ball off him. A proper target man that can be brilliant to use as a lay off ball.



This one is to prove people wrong who say he isn't mobile at all; he is. What people don't realise was that Fellaini had back problems before he even came here, and is the reason he has been out for so long whilst at the same time recovering from surgery on his wrist. If anyone has ever had back problems before, you would know how hard it is to sit down with one let alone play professional football. Here he provided a great linkup through the middle, as well as being a presence offensively and defensively. Wasn't a world class performance, but kept the midfield ticking against a good passing side.



This one disproves the claim that all he can do is do 5 yard passes; he can do much more, and is actually very smart with his decision making. He also has a better shot than all of our other CMs.

He is probably the best aerial threat in the premier league. He is such a big fella that he can put little effort into putting his body ahead of his man and control the ball with ease, and then is very capable of passing it off to another player. Since our defenders have such an obsession with playing the ball long anyway, it's good to have a player that can make good use out of these long ball situations, as well as having extra dangers in corners and our usual wing play.
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If anything those videos show how he isn't suited to us at all. The first one, against United, the only thing he did all game was bring down long balls from the defenders or win headers playing as a target man behind the striker. Yes everybody knows he's big and can win headers against people, but I don't want to ever see United use Fellaini as a number 10 unless it comes to the last 10 minutes and we need goals so we start hoofing it. With talented players like Kagawa, Januzaj and Rooney all number 10's, it would be a joke if we put Fellaini there or if he was bought for that position.

The second game you put, against Arsenal, wasn't that great of a performance. Yeah, he can do a few simple passes but he isn't creative at all, he isn't talented on the ball and is quite clumsy on it, and he isn't that great of a passer. You certainly don't want him to be the one dictating tempo for your team or being the creative source. Defensively he's pretty clumsy as well and fouls way too much, and gets booked for it because of how much bigger he is then everyone else. He's a decent tackler, but nothing more, and certainly not United standard to be the energetic midfielder covering ground and winning the ball back, if we chose to have a player like that.

He's a decent player, for a mid table team that likes to use long balls a lot. He's nowhere near being good enough for a top side though, never has been and never will be. He just doesn't have anywhere near the required talent on the ball or the mobility to be a starting midfielder for a team like United.
 
bosnian_red said:
If anything those videos show how he isn't suited to us at all. The first one, against United, the only thing he did all game was bring down long balls from the defenders or win headers playing as a target man behind the striker. Yes everybody knows he's big and can win headers against people, but I don't want to ever see United use Fellaini as a number 10 unless it comes to the last 10 minutes and we need goals so we start hoofing it. With talented players like Kagawa, Januzaj and Rooney all number 10's, it would be a joke if we put Fellaini there or if he was bought for that position.

The second game you put, against Arsenal, wasn't that great of a performance. Yeah, he can do a few simple passes but he isn't creative at all, he isn't talented on the ball and is quite clumsy on it, and he isn't that great of a passer. You certainly don't want him to be the one dictating tempo for your team or being the creative source. Defensively he's pretty clumsy as well and fouls way too much, and gets booked for it because of how much bigger he is then everyone else. He's a decent tackler, but nothing more, and certainly not United standard to be the energetic midfielder covering ground and winning the ball back, if we chose to have a player like that.

He's a decent player, for a mid table team that likes to use long balls a lot. He's nowhere near being good enough for a top side though, never has been and never will be. He just doesn't have anywhere near the required talent on the ball or the mobility to be a starting midfielder for a team like United.
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I used those videos to highlight the weaknesses people think he possesses such as he can never play a long pass or he is very slow, when in fact he is fast for a man of his size. So would you say he has less mobility than Carrick or Cleverley in those videos? If anything, from the centre of midfield he had the ability to drive the ball forward quicker than those two do, and he did this often for Everton last year.

I'm not saying he is the answer to all of our midfield problems, of course he isn't. He may never be good enough for us which is always possible, but for people to write him off when he came here with 2 different injuries after less than 6 months is straight up daft. I really do hope he recovers well from his wrist and back operations and comes back soon firing on all cylinders, because used properly he can be a helpful asset, a different option when our current tactics don't seem to be working.
 
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