Seriously? There are better managers out there who could do better with what we've currently got. Perhaps not to the level we all want but certainly better than what we are currently achieving.
Long-Standing Issues Coming Home To Roost
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Seriously? There are better managers out there who could do better with what we've currently got. Perhaps not to the level we all want but certainly better than what we are currently achieving.
We played tumescent football for large parts of last season, and previous seasons, too.
Correct. Last season we were reliant on corners and RvP for goals, often after going behind in a game. This season RvP has been injured and we have been struggling to chase games.
This season was always going to be a struggle because RvP was unlikely to be able to maintain that level for a third year.
Warnock has got to be bloody kidding?!
Unless he's talking solely about the lineup we put out today, which was very weak, then to say no one could do better with our players is utter nonsense.
Unless he's talking solely about the lineup we put out today, which was very weak, then to say no one could do better with our players is utter nonsense.
I know. Our problems certainly didn't start this season, they've been building for a while, our success just glossed over the flaws. We were going to have a bad season regardless of who we hired to replace SAF.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing somewhat better than we are though. Moyes shouldn't take all the blame (or even most of it) but he does have to take some.
You don't give players enough credit. These players are all very good and they are capable of passing a ball around. If Moyes had wanted to change your style of play he could have done more than he has and you would see that on the pitch (no guarantee what the results would be). There isn't even an attempt to play differently. Your players are better than most of the league's. They are all, at the very least, technically decent.
'Technically decent' - patronising much, Barney?
To be fair to Moyes, his primary midfield target was Fabregas. Whether that was achievable or not is irrelevant; to me, that spoke volumes about the direction he wanted to take the side. His United side.
I think it'll be wiser to judge Moyes when he's signed the players that he wants. He already identified areas of the squad that are in dire need of improvement. It'll be interesting to see whether the board really do trust that he's the man for the job and give him the funds required.
'Technically decent' - patronising much, Barney?
To be fair to Moyes, his primary midfield target was Fabregas. Whether that was achievable or not is irrelevant; to me, that spoke volumes about the direction he wanted to take the side. His United side.
I think it'll be wiser to judge Moyes when he's signed the players that he wants. He already identified areas of the squad that are in dire need of improvement. It'll be interesting to see whether the board really do trust that he's the man for the job and give him the funds required.
His primary target may have been Fabregas, but the fact that after failing to land him, he went after Khedira, De Rossi, Herrera and Fellaini tells me he didn't really have a plan.
If Fellaini continues to display the type of form that he has thus far, then it doesn't bode well and you may have an Andy Carroll situation on your hands. Unfortunately for you, it also looks like Big Sam won't be in a job much longer in order to help you out.
Before some gobshite mentions it, no, it's not Howard Nurse, Daniel Taylor or whoever else is deemed the 'Holy One' in terms of delivering United opinions. He's just a normal Joe Soap like you or I, but I am firmly in agreement with him on this one. Scandalous the lack of support Moyes is getting in comparison to the blame-game being placed firmly at his door.
I understand the need to support your manager at this time but if you can't see that Moyes has been inept; whether in his dealings in the summer window, or tactically in games this season; you're blind.
I'm convinced now more than ever that Moyes' has been dealt a shitty hand. The players have a lot to answer for with their performances and the owners are simply getting away with murder with what they're up to.
I am fully behind Moyes, as are the majority of fans, but the squad needs urgent (life-saving, almost) attention. That midfield today was a fecking disgrace. Ramires, Luiz and Matic were only laughing at them. Grossly negligent that it's been such an apparent problem with almost five years now and it has yet to be addressed.
I am fully behind Moyes, as are the majority of fans, but the squad needs urgent (life-saving, almost) attention. That midfield today was a fecking disgrace. Ramires, Luiz and Matic were only laughing at them. Grossly negligent that it's been such an apparent problem with almost five years now and it has yet to be addressed.
I agree with that tweet as well. Moyes has a hell of a job on his hands. And really hasn't been helped with all the injuries. Not injuries to squad players but our most important players. Apart from the obvious (RvP & Rooney) there has been numerous key players missing throughout the whole season.
Most will agree the key players are RvP, Rooney, Carrick, De Gea, Rafael, Vidic & Jones. Only once has Moyes been able to play them together this season. (Januzaj can now be added to this list.)
Then there's Nani. He's played 90 minutes once all season in the PL. With Valencia struggling so much and Zaha not getting a look in (for various reasons) we could really have done with a fit and in form Nani this year.
So with the squad so stretched, it's no surprise we're struggling. The biggest stick you can beat Moyes with is he isn't Alex Ferguson.
There will only ever be one Fergie. Yes Moyes has made mistakes. But without a once in a lifetime manager, the lack of world class talent in the squad is showing. And I can see more and more heat getting put onto the Glazers. Yesterday Chelsea brought on a £50million striker and then a £21million midfielder. We have been overtaken by the Oil clubs. Ferguson covered it up but now he's gone, its clear for everyone to see.
We need at least 2 world class players to come in. Plus another couple of very good players and it's going to cost a hell of a lot.
It will not surprise me if there's a shift in focus from Moyes to the owners from here on.
Most will agree the key players are RvP, Rooney, Carrick, De Gea, Rafael, Vidic & Jones. Only once has Moyes been able to play them together this season. (Januzaj can now be added to this list.)
Then there's Nani. He's played 90 minutes once all season in the PL. With Valencia struggling so much and Zaha not getting a look in (for various reasons) we could really have done with a fit and in form Nani this year.
So with the squad so stretched, it's no surprise we're struggling. The biggest stick you can beat Moyes with is he isn't Alex Ferguson.
There will only ever be one Fergie. Yes Moyes has made mistakes. But without a once in a lifetime manager, the lack of world class talent in the squad is showing. And I can see more and more heat getting put onto the Glazers. Yesterday Chelsea brought on a £50million striker and then a £21million midfielder. We have been overtaken by the Oil clubs. Ferguson covered it up but now he's gone, its clear for everyone to see.
We need at least 2 world class players to come in. Plus another couple of very good players and it's going to cost a hell of a lot.
It will not surprise me if there's a shift in focus from Moyes to the owners from here on.
Spot on.
I got barracked on here for suggesting that the "no value in the market" comments from Fergie were him basically saying he didnt have any money to spend. A lot of people genuinely believed that he believed this rubbish - and that he was happy with what he had. The suggestion was that "Fergie would never stand for that sort of thing from the Glazers" I disagree that that was the case. Ferfie didnt like it I suspect, but he stayed on anyway and tried to dress it up like he was still in charge.
Fergie moved on last year because the writing was on the wall. This "title winning squad" was basically Rooney and to a greater extent RVP, an average squad deficient in midfield especially, combined with the other top sides brittleness and a large slice of Fergie magic.
Unsurprisingly, this year the other sides have pushed on and the weaknesses in the squad are blatantly obvious to everyone and anyone.
Some of the criticism of Moyes is ridiculous. He's been given as big a job as ever has been taken on in football - and he's being asked to do it with one hand tied behind his back.
As it stands he's without two of the best players in the league, and is reliant on an 18 year old kid - whom he was been brave enough to thow into the deep end, for creativity. Its an utter shambles, and one of the boards making - allowing Moyes to comment on "big signings" last summer and leaving him looking like a mug at the end of the transfer window.
Everybody is trying to heap all the blame on Moyes, everyone has to take the blame, him, the board, Ed Woodward, the players. All of them have underperformed. Moyes is the easy target.
Definitely. A very easy target.
I feel for him a bit. He's being made to look a mug when in fact he's a very good, honest, hard working manager. That doesn't change over night. Meanwhile the likes of the Glazers, Woodward and even some of the players are getting away with the ammount of horrible abuse Moyes is taking on the chin.
I'm respecting him more and more as the season goes on. Yes the stick comes with the territory of being at one of the biggest clubs in the world but how many of the other super clubs (Barca, Real, Bayern) have as few world class players as us? And how many of them have one Oil club in their league, nevermind two?
You can see why Fergie picked Moyes. He knew going forward that Utd couldn't compete financially with City and Chelsea. So we needed a manager who was proven in regards to long term planning, hard work and competing with clubs well above his financial restrictions.
It took Moyes two or three years at Everton to build a side that could punch above its weight. Perhaps the board are hoping for the same again from him to compete with City and Chelsea without spending the crazy money.
I feel for him a bit. He's being made to look a mug when in fact he's a very good, honest, hard working manager. That doesn't change over night. Meanwhile the likes of the Glazers, Woodward and even some of the players are getting away with the ammount of horrible abuse Moyes is taking on the chin.
I'm respecting him more and more as the season goes on. Yes the stick comes with the territory of being at one of the biggest clubs in the world but how many of the other super clubs (Barca, Real, Bayern) have as few world class players as us? And how many of them have one Oil club in their league, nevermind two?
You can see why Fergie picked Moyes. He knew going forward that Utd couldn't compete financially with City and Chelsea. So we needed a manager who was proven in regards to long term planning, hard work and competing with clubs well above his financial restrictions.
It took Moyes two or three years at Everton to build a side that could punch above its weight. Perhaps the board are hoping for the same again from him to compete with City and Chelsea without spending the crazy money.
What horrible abuse, seriously? The match day thread here isn't something he "has to take on the chin".
In the actual stadium nobody abuses him, the support for him has been very vocal all season. Opposition fans mock him, yes. But that's hardly relevant.
I was talking about on here and pretty much every social media outlet. You don't think the players and members of the club are aware of it?
You're absolutely right, the OT support and the away support have been fantastic. But on here I've seen a poster compare him to syphilis. And on other social sites I've seen just as bad.
Online abuse is something everyone who is well known has to deal with.
Moyes is actually getting an easy ride from the biggest abusers around, the British press.
Well you're mental then.I do agree there are several problems with our squad that aren't Moyes's making, and stem from under investment or bad investment since 2009, but of the many problems we've had this season in underperforming, Moyes has definitely been one of them. He's the manager. The idea no manager could do any different is akin to saying managers have no impact. Or, equally, that Moyes is the best manager in the world!
I've no idea why it's now the "good fan" thing to decide our squad is shite and our former manager willfully neglectful. It's basically throwing everything you once loved under a bus to be the new teachers pet.
Whether Moyes will improve, grow into the job, prove a good long term choice and is deserving of our support is a completely different thing to whether he's objectively doing as good a job as possible now.
People can stroke their chins and go "hmmm, well you see, the reason we won the league last season was actually all RVP, and Fergie, and this, that, the other, your mother, anything but the team and ANYONE would've taken us down to 7th this season" but it's still just desperately looking everywhere but directly at the sun. The great big, obvious thing in the middle of the sky.
Supporting him is great. Admirable even. Hoping he'll come good expected. Refusing to acknowledge he's been pretty terrible so far is deluded.
Ok fair enough. And the media have been reasonably kind, which is surprising. Guess from my point of view then, seeing the abuse he gets on here and elsewhere, just makes me want to stick up for him even more.
Because they'd lose what otherwise?
They have absolutely no exposure to this club.
While the face of football has been changing to the tune of arab billions, our backstreet market traders have been cashing in on the momentum of the club to drag them along and continue to line their pockets.
So no the golden goose has fecked off, I wonder how long this chariot can roll along for without proper funding.
what?For me, it's one long-standing issue: Malcolm and the Muppets. Of course, they could stump up the £400m they've siphoned out of the club to give to Moyes to spend in the summer.
I know little about the financial aspect of United, but isn't this club an asset to the Glazers? And isn't the value of this asset subject to decrease over time if the football team becomes routinely unsuccessful? Won't it harm commercial contracts in the mid-term (possibly even in the short term, in case there are performance-related clauses)? Won't this harm revenue? Won't this be harmful to them regardless of if their plan is to sell it or take a piece of the profits every season?
Almost nine months on and this problem is more apparent than ever.
I believe in van Gaal and I'm excited about our future, but feck me, how far behind we've fallen in the past three or four seasons. We took our eye completely off the ball since 2009 and only now are we starting to address it.
Onwards and upwards.
Why is this in the wrong forum?