Shinji Kagawa

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City have Nasri and Silva and Aguero. Why can't we have Mata and Kagawa and Rooney? Big clubs need big squads.

In any case Kagawa won't be leaving the club before Rooney signs a new contract.
 
The dream would be if we're keeping him, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj, Nani, Welbeck and Chicha to go along with Mata; that'd be 8 fairly fluid options for our front four. Would also mean getting rid of Valencia and Young, with Zaha to maybe go out on loan for a bit.
But, having seen Moyes' team selections and substitution patterns so far, this is pretty unlikely.
 
Timdbro said:
The dream would be if we're keeping him, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj, Nani, Welbeck and Chicha to go along with Mata; that'd be 8 fairly fluid options for our front four. Would also mean getting rid of Valencia and Young, with Zaha to maybe go out on loan for a bit.
But, having seen Moyes' team selections and substitution patterns so far, this is pretty unlikely.
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Yeah, no Mata who we bring in, I still fear that Valencia will see significant playing time. God knows why.
 
Because he offers width, pace, strength and a counter-attacking outlet that's difficult to stop till the final third, even when his crossing lets him down.
 
He won't be here by next season. Quite a few others also heading out I'd guess
 
Dante said:
Because he offers width, pace, strength and a counter-attacking outlet that's difficult to stop till the final third, even when his crossing lets him down.
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I think Kagawa can be counter attacking force if used correctly
Wibble said:
He won't be here by next season. Quite a few others also heading out I'd guess
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Sadly, I think you're right. It's a shame to think Young would probably have a longer career at United than Kagawa
 
Dante said:
Because he offers width, pace, strength and a counter-attacking outlet that's difficult to stop till the final third, even when his crossing lets him down.
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Fat lot of good that has done us over the last two seasons. The conversion of this into goals/assists is virtually non-existent unfortunately.
 
I HOPE that the signing of Mata will spur us to change our play style to one which will suit the likes of Kagawa more. I still think Kagawa has done well when played centrally, he has just been rubbish out wide.
 
I honestly cannot see what he did last match to constitute a good performance. At best he was ok I thought. A couple of good passes into Hernandez in wide positions that ultimately led to nothing, one or two turns, but then nothing, and still playing in his trademarked crab gear, strolling around with the ball then knocking it back for a center half.

If that's what passes for a brilliant performance these days, my oh my our standard's have been lowered.
 
marjen said:
I honestly cannot see what he did last match to constitute a good performance. At best he was ok I thought. A couple of good passes into Hernandez in wide positions that ultimately led to nothing, one or two turns, but then nothing, and still playing in his trademarked crab gear, strolling around with the ball then knocking it back for a center half.

If that's what passes for a brilliant performance these days, my oh my our standard's have been lowered.
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He was not brilliant by any means but was our best attacking player. And he linked up with our midfield. As soon as Valencia came off, we just played it to the wings and put in a shitty cross and you would have hoped that MOyes realised that is not working by now
 
Timdbro said:
The dream would be if we're keeping him, Rooney, RVP, Januzaj, Nani, Welbeck and Chicha to go along with Mata; that'd be 8 fairly fluid options for our front four. Would also mean getting rid of Valencia and Young, with Zaha to maybe go out on loan for a bit.
But, having seen Moyes' team selections and substitution patterns so far, this is pretty unlikely.
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yup. that 8 would represent a great option for our front 4. signing mata this month and secure a new deal for rooney soon meaning moyes and woodward can concentrate on signing a couple of top class central midfielders, a left back and perhaps a centreback next summer. and i agree about your point on valencia and young, and zaha too.

and i agree about your last point too. it has been quite some time now and moyes seems still has a believe in valencia somehow. hope things would change after we get mata.
 
Escobar said:
He was not brilliant by any means but was our best attacking player. And he linked up with our midfield. As soon as Valencia came off, we just played it to the wings and put in a shitty cross and you would have hoped that MOyes realised that is not working by now
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I thought, once again, that Januzaj was the only one of our attackers that tried to make things happen.

Kagawa for me is far too content to just stroll around the place. He's got no urgency about him. He's got the ability do open teams up but he doesn't impose himself on a game.

I get that our playing style isn't perfectly equipped for him to shine, but there's nothing that stops him from taking on responsibility, other than himself.
 
Ferguson said:
City have Nasri and Silva and Aguero. Why can't we have Mata and Kagawa and Rooney? Big clubs need big squads.

In any case Kagawa won't be leaving the club before Rooney signs a new contract.
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Because City want to start them pretty much every week. On the other hand Moyes starts Kagawa when "we have players who need games" and would prefer to have Valencia or Young in the team.
 
Ferguson said:
City have Nasri and Silva and Aguero. Why can't we have Mata and Kagawa and Rooney? Big clubs need big squads.

In any case Kagawa won't be leaving the club before Rooney signs a new contract.
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I think City can get away with playing 3-4 "Kagawa" type player's because their midfield does all the dirty work. The reason Kagawa was taken off on Wednesday is because when our backs are against the wall and the opposition are attacking us, just like Nasri, he is totally AWOL. In City's team this is fine as others cover for him; we don't have that cover.
 
Well it certainly sounds from Kagawa's agent's comments that there's intention from their side to move on, which is interesting because I doubt Moyes has any problem whatsoever with giving him the occasional games and using him as a squad player like he is now. It seems more likely that Kagawa would get fed up and push for the exit, but it sounds like thats not even crossing his mind at the moment.
 
Ekeke said:
Well it certainly sounds from Kagawa's agent's comments that there's intention from their side to move on, which is interesting because I doubt Moyes has any problem whatsoever with giving him the occasional games and using him as a squad player like he is now. It seems more likely that Kagawa would get fed up and push for the exit, but it sounds like thats not even crossing his mind at the moment.
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For his personal development as a player it may not be ideal, but from a more selfish p.o.v and the interest of the club, it's good to have him around. I hope he can show what he is capable of, Mata signing might be extra competition for him but it could also benefit him.
 
Goooose said:
I don't remember anyone blaming the manager/tactics when Forlan and Veron were here.
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Veron and Forlan never went through a manager change which made their level drop significantly.

Kagawa under Fergie: Good! 7-7.5 out of 10 overall, and easily one of our top 10 performers. I'd put him in 7th place. 9th at the very worst.

Kagawa under Moyes: Mediocre! 6 ouf of 10 overall. Maybe 6.5, seeing as he's done well in the CL. If he for some reason ends up being one of our 10 best performers, then it's not because he's played well, but because our team has been crap. His competition is crap, simply put.

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On the "Mata issue":

I think it's the best thing that could happen to Kagawa! I really doubt we'll pay nearly 40 million for a player and then play him out of position. With Mata in the center, we'll play a style more suited to Kagawa. Hopefully(and probably), that means that Kagawa can start playing better on the wing.
 
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It's hilarious how MW has convinced himself Kagawa was doing great under Ferguson.

And equally funny how, after arguing for ages that he is not a winger or versatile and should be played in the centre, Mata coming in will suddenly make kagawa play better.
 
B20 said:
It's hilarious how MW has convinced himself Kagawa was doing great under Ferguson.

And equally funny how, after arguing for ages that he is not a winger or versatile and should be played in the centre, Mata coming in will suddenly make kagawa play better.
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I don't think Kagawa was that great under Sir Alex, but he makes a vaild point re: Mata. Mata is the kind of player Kagawa will thrive around - we don't have too many of those currently.
 
I hope he stays. Just sell Young - there will be quite a few teams interested in an English winger who is proven in this league anyway.
 
SirAF said:
I don't think Kagawa was that great under Sir Alex, but he makes a vaild point re: Mata. Mata is the kind of player Kagawa will thrive around - we don't have too many of those currently.
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The point is, MW has spent a fair amount of time trying to argue that Kagawa is a central player, not versatile and ought to be played centrally. He's now 4th in the queue for that central spot and suddenly it's about how just having the right player in the centre will make him a better winger.
 
Ekeke said:
Well it certainly sounds from Kagawa's agent's comments that there's intention from their side to move on, which is interesting because I doubt Moyes has any problem whatsoever with giving him the occasional games and using him as a squad player like he is now. It seems more likely that Kagawa would get fed up and push for the exit, but it sounds like thats not even crossing his mind at the moment.
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Because he sees himself as something more than just a squad player and he also knows that he has the potential and ability to be that given the right setup.
 
B20 said:
It's hilarious how MW has convinced himself Kagawa was doing great under Ferguson.
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I've never used the word "great". At least as far as I can remember. "Good" is the word I've used almost the entire time.

Kagawa had nearly 90% passing accuracy, the highest number of successful through-balls per game, created many chances, worked harder than most, and had the 4th best goals/assist ratio in the team by quite a large margin, if we go by minutes played. In my book, that should be considered a good season. Very good for being the first season in the PL. You'd have to be blind or retarded to think that Kagawa is roughly around the same level this season. And he's not been bad this season either. Just mediocre.


B20 said:
The point is, MW has spent a fair amount of time trying to argue that Kagawa is a central player, not versatile and ought to be played centrally. He's now 4th in the queue for that central spot and suddenly it's about how just having the right player in the centre will make him a better winger.
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This just shows that you read what you want to read. You wouldn't happen to be a Liverpool supporter?:lol:

I've always said that Kagawa can't play on the left in our style and setup, but he's more than capable of doing it for Japan in their setup. Yes, Kagawa is better centrally, even in Japan's setup, but his level doesn't drop so significantly on the left there as it has been doing for us under Moyes.

Last season, Fergie's standard first XI consisted of RVP, Rooney and Kagawa. We won almost every game in this setup, and we never lost. I think we played 10-12 games with that starting XI, and drew only once. When RVP or Rooney was out, Kagawa was the first name on the sheet for the AM position. And we never lost then either. As you can see, it was no point fixing anything, because we were winning and playing good football(imo). I've made countless posts in this forum where I defend our football last season. It's under Moyes I've turned into a critic.

We haven't been able to try out the RVP/Rooney/Kagawa combo that much under Moyes, so there's no telling if it will be a success or not. The key problem for me, is that not only isn't Kagawa playing in the AM position, despite RVP or Rooney(or BOTH!) being out. He doesn't even play nearly as much, regardless of position. Only half as often as he did under Fergie. And that pisses me off, because that's the only main difference in our starting lineup under Moyes. And it has clearly not worked out.

I'm happy that we signed Mata, because at the end of the day, it's the football I care about. Not the players. We now have 2 proper AMs in the team! Even Moyes wont be able to dogde both of them. And if he does, then you'll see me just as often in the Mata thread. I guess that makes me a Mata fanboy as well then? Or maybe, just maybe, I want us to play good football. Crazy, I know...
 
marjen said:
I honestly cannot see what he did last match to constitute a good performance. At best he was ok I thought. A couple of good passes into Hernandez in wide positions that ultimately led to nothing, one or two turns, but then nothing, and still playing in his trademarked crab gear, strolling around with the ball then knocking it back for a center half.

If that's what passes for a brilliant performance these days, my oh my our standard's have been lowered.
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You honestly couldn't see a difference between how the team played when he was on and how we played when he went off? We attacked down the middle and had far more possession when he was on, when he went off, no possession and we just did the usual down the right to Valencia. One of only two players creating chances. Just the fact that he was mentioned by most people in the MOTM thread and you're acting like it was average says more about your feelings toward him than anything else. You can't even acknowledge when he has a good game.
 
B20 said:
It's hilarious how MW has convinced himself Kagawa was doing great under Ferguson.

And equally funny how, after arguing for ages that he is not a winger or versatile and should be played in the centre, Mata coming in will suddenly make kagawa play better.
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Well, he wasn't bad.

2012-2013 - The Japanese international made 20 appearances (17 starts) for the Red Devils during their title-winning campaign. He bagged six goals, which was the fourth highest total on the squad behind Robin van Persie (26), Wayne Rooney (12) and Javier Hernandez (10). No other player scored more than five goals during Manchester United’s English campaign.

In regards to Manchester United, Kagawa was near the mean in terms of shots per match, firing off 1.1 per 90 minutes. Robin van Persie shot the ball most often for, with one of the top totals in the Premier League—3.7 per match.

While Kagawa may not have shot too frequently, he was certainly accurate when doing so.Kagawa registered a 75 percent accuracy rate, not too shabby at all.

Perhaps Kagawa’s most impressive statistic was his pass success rate. The former Dortmund man completed the third highest percentage of his passes on United during the 2012-13 season, connecting 89.7 percent of his 834 total pass attempts.

Only the legend Paul Scholes (92.4 percent) and Tom Cleverley (90.2 percent) were more accurate than Kagawa during the 2012-13 English Premier League season.

He averaged one key pass per match, which was the sixth highest total on the team.

With assists, too, Kagawa was near average for the Red Devils, dishing out three total assists, tied for seventh. Wayne Rooney was United’s most frequent assister, contributing ten during the season.
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MW, let it go... when you are the only one that holds this view, how long can you believe yourself to be correct? He's been disappointing to date for a mixture of reasons, that's the bottom line.
 
Jaybezia said:
MW, let it go... when you are the only one that holds this view, how long can you believe yourself to be correct? He's been disappointing to date for a mixture of reasons, that's the bottom line.
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Yep, he's gone. He can't play wide, and there's no point in keeping a player of his caliber who is third choice for #10.
 
The best part about signing Mata, is that things ought to happen by themselves now:smirk:

Mata will surely take that AM position, pushing either Rooney or RVP out of the starting XI. We're still left with two wing positions open. Januzaj will take one, but who will take the other? Probably Valencia at first, but Kagawa will get the odd game. And when he does, he's gonna play better. Mata is actually an intelligent playmaker, unlike Rooney, Welbeck and even Januzaj. Mata, while having stronger individualist traits than Kagawa, is also a so-called "multiplier". In other words: he will make Kagawa play better. And Kagawa will in return make Mata play better. I don't know how long it will take, but Moyes will eventually notice how much more dangerous we look with Mata and Kagawa on the field at the same time, and before you know it, they're both in the starting lineup. Valencia/Young/Welbeck have no business on wings in Mata-land:drool:

United for the next 5 years:

---------- DDG ---------
Rafael - ???? - ???? - ???
------- ???? - ???? -----
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
--------- ???? ----------
 
Mad Winger said:
The best part about signing Mata, is that things ought to happen by themselves now:smirk:

Mata will surely take that AM position, pushing either Rooney or RVP out of the starting XI. We're still left with two wing positions open. Januzaj will take one, but who will take the other? Probably Valencia at first, but Kagawa will get the odd game. And when he does, he's gonna play better. Mata is actually an intelligent playmaker, unlike Rooney, Welbeck and even Januzaj. Mata, while having stronger individualist traits than Kagawa, is also a so-called "multiplier". In other words: he will make Kagawa play better. And Kagawa will in return make Mata play better. I don't know how long it will take, but Moyes will eventually notice how much more dangerous we look with Mata and Kagawa on the field at the same time, and before you know it, they're both in the starting lineup. Valencia/Young/Welbeck have no business on wings in Mata-land:drool:

United for the next 5 years:

---------- DDG ---------
Rafael - ???? - ???? - ???
------- ???? - ???? -----
Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa
--------- ???? ----------
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
No, what will happen is Mata will most likely drift inside from either the left or the right, Rooney through the centre. Kagawa/Januzaj will fight it out for the last spot
 
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I just want to see 3 from Rooney/Mata/Januzaj/Kagawa/Nani behind RVP/Welbeck/Hernandez.

Young and Valencia can sod off.
 
akash02 said:
No, what will happen is Mata will most likely drift inside from either the left or the right, Rooney through the centre. Kagawa/Januzaj will fight it out for the last spot
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Mata slamming in crosses from the wing. :drool:
 
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