Exactly.
Shinji Kagawa
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Exactly.
Waste off cash if we do this. We don't just "need a little more" creativity. We need it in abundance!
Play Mata in the center, or buy someone like Ronaldo/Bale/Ribery. It's pointless to play with players like Kagawa or Mata on the wings when Wayne fecking Rooney is in charge of the creativity in the middle. His greatest strength is scoring goals, preferably after playing the ball wide and bursting into the box. In such a setup we need speed and flair on the wings to make it work out.
It might have worked under the greatest manager of all time, but I highly doubt it will work under Moyes.
Am I just being wildly optimistic but will the Mata addition actually help Kagawa? It gives us one more player who is capable of playing the tippy tappy football that Kagawa prefers. Mata is also far more versatile and seems to play well on the left wing and even can do a job on the right wing. I hope Moyes can integrate Kagawa, Rooney, RVP and Mata together in the same lineup somehow. It would make us so much more fluid and unpredictable. I think I just did a sex wee thinking about it.
I agree with much of what you say about Kagawa but you underrate Rooney. He can be creative and he can get into this neat, quick passing football with Mata and Kagawa, no problem.
Can't see it myself and I feel it's unlikely to happen. Mata's best just behind the front man as his 20 goal haul of last season testifies;Kagawa prefers that position too whch leaves us with a gaping hole in midfield unless 2 defensive players are accommodated. But then you're faced with no real width.
I can only see a front 3 of Mata, Rooney and RVP if one of Rooney or Mata drops deeper on occasion. A midfield 3 with Januszaj having a freerer role; 2 playing in front of the back 4 could work.The problem we have is who to play there who would do the water carrying
Problem is Kagawa doesn't work hard enough without the ball;the others do.
I'm afraid his days are numbered
This is the same Mata who's played from the wide positions for most of his career and unlike your beloved Shinji is a lot more adaptable.
Adnan emerging, Mata signing, possibly Rooney re-signing. All these things push Kagawa further to the back of the queue. It's not even clear whether Moyes prefers him to Valencia, Young, Nani or Welbeck. Is he up for the fight?
Not clear? Given how much Valencia starts and how little Kagawa does I'd say Moyes may as well put it on the electronic scoreboard
He looks like he works hard to me. Mad Winger goes off on one, granted, yet it balances out with some mistruths like this. Kagawa's problem, if it is one, is that he has poor acceleration, and often looks like he's caught on his heels. His workrate up and down the flank is evident and according to Andy Mitten, appreciated by the coaching staff. Take from that what you will.
Which he doesnt look likely to get here who prefers Ashley Young. Hence my surprise at his camp laying it out in pretty certain terms that leaving is unlikely
I think he definitely still has a role to play for us. Think about injuries and rotation. United play around 50 games every year. Squad depth is so vital in modern football. We need all the help we can get.
RVP
Januzaj-----Rooney------Mata
Januzaj-----Rooney------Mata
Hernandez
Welbeck-----Kagawa-----Nani
Welbeck-----Kagawa-----Nani
True. I was thinking about all those who have him in their preferred first choice formations. Based on Moyes's behaviour so far I just don't see it unless Rooney leaves.
Yeah look at the all the top teams - the Bayerns, the Madrids, the Chelseas, the Citys - they all have so much depth and that really helps them during the season because it keeps the team fresh and also motivates players to a certain extent because they have to be on their toes otherwise they lose their starting spot. Not like now with the likes of Valencia just continuously playing there regardless of how shit he is.
I think Kagawa will go back to Dortmund in the summer which is probably the best move for him and the team that atm suites his playing style the most. The only chance I can see for him staying is if he has a sensational second half of the season and Rooney decides he def wants to leave in the summer.
Appreciated by the coaching staff to the extent that Moyes usually favours an 18 year old?
Kagawa looked capable of making it last year but hasn't kicked on for all the reasons you highlighted above,his workrate looks good but he was completely shown up Ki against sunderland who didn't come with the same reputation, take from that what you will
That's a very odd thing to say considering this is specifically the reason Mata has been marginalised at Chelsea this whole season.
Not really. What Mourinho says and what the reality is are at odds.JM has always had his agenda with certain players.Mata didn't have 2 seasons being Chelsea's player of the year without having something.
Look i'm not saying Kagawa isn't a good player;just not the world class player some on here are creaming themselves about.He's better in the German league in a system that suits him.I'm not sure the EPL is the right place for him.Mata has proved that he is
Why would Mourinho have an agenda against a player who he had presumably never met or talked to before he took over at Chelsea? You guys think the guy is an idiot to just turn up and marginalise a great player for no reason? You don't win as much as he has by being that stupid.
Considering Benitez did the same thing as Mourinho in his first two Premier League games as Chelsea boss, I would say that there is no agenda against Mata. It's a lazy excuse and overlooks vital components of Mourinho's sytem. Oscar is starting ahead of him because he suits the system better, it's that simple. Mata's deficiencies will be overlooked here (and rightfully so) because we don't play the same system. I also disagree with your point about Kagawa not working hard enough - he is a hard worker off the ball and his pressing is done in an intelligent manner. I have no idea why you would compare his work rate to Ki based on one match, it doesn't make any sense.
Mad Winger has been criticising our 'out date', 'prehistoric' tactics all season but still thinks that Mata would have to play through the middle to be creative.
Seems to me that his ideas are out of date and a bit simple, more than anything.
Seems to me that his ideas are out of date and a bit simple, more than anything.
I may be being a bit of a crazy twat here, but I think this is just what we needed to get the best out of Kagawa. He is most deadly just outside and inside the box, playing neat little balls and 1-2s. Unfortunately, the majority of our team have no/little composure around the box and our best 2 have been out, forcing Kagawa to adopt a different approach to his play, which on the whole he has struggled to do. With the introduction of Mata, the entire dynamics of the team SHOULD change, as long as Moyes isn't a stubborn so and so.
It will be like City's set up with Nasri - Silva - Navas/Milner expect ours will and could be Mata - Kagawa - Januzaj.
If Rooney does go in the Summer, which I hope it wont, Kagawa will most definitely stay, however if he does stay I can still see him being an important squad player as many have pointed out.
It will be like City's set up with Nasri - Silva - Navas/Milner expect ours will and could be Mata - Kagawa - Januzaj.
If Rooney does go in the Summer, which I hope it wont, Kagawa will most definitely stay, however if he does stay I can still see him being an important squad player as many have pointed out.
What? Januzaj plays because he's better. He'll play ahead of practically all of our players because he is already better. His age is of little relevance anymore. Anyway, that has nothing to do with my post. I said that Kagawa's work rate his appreciated by the coaching staff according to Andy Mitten. He reported that they like him out on the left and feel that his work can go unnoticed. Furthermore, I completely disagree with your assertion that he doesn't work hard, because to me, it looks like he does, plus I'd see little reason as to why he wouldn't want to try his best. He also wins the ball back fairly often.
Again, I don't know what Ki has to do with this. The guy is a nobody and still will be in a few years time. He was better than Carrick and Fletch, too. Still not good enough to lick the shite off of their boots.
The Mata signing could be a blessing in disguise for Kagawa. The presence of Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj could force Moyes and Co to change their philosophy. We could have all 3 playing at the same time in a narrow formation with the fullbacks providing the width. If they click their possession based football and delivery could temporarily negate the lack of a centre midfielder. If Barca can play for 5 years with only one centre midfielder I don't see why we can't do it at least for the rest of the season.
I'm not saying this is the case, but a lot of people claimed that he had an issue with Spanish players (or vice versa) at the end of his spell in Madrid. There was rumoured to be a bit of a Spain vs Portugal situation brewing.
Obviously he poured fuel on the flames when he came in and shafted Mata straight away at Chelsea.
Kagawa actually does our 2nd most off the ball compared to the other players playing on the wing or in the hole. Valencia is firmly in front but then Kagawa at 1.3 tackles a game and 1.3 interceptions a game is ahead of Januzaj, Rooney and Nani. Its been speculated in the past that Young gets picked because he tracks back, but he actually wins the ball least of all our players in the comparison with even Adnan clearly doing more when we dont have the ball than he does. 1.3 of each obviously doesnt sound like much and thats probably true, but when the team makes a small amount of tackles and interceptions (bar Carrick) its still enough for him to be near the top and certainly very strange for him to be picked out for being perceived to not do enough when we don't have the ball
Andy Mitten also once said that Utd deliberated over signing Kagawa for a long because they weren't sure he had the testicular fortitude to handle games at the likes of Anfield.
Stats like that don't show how well he tracks back or how often he leaves a left back exposed. It should be obvious when watching games that it happens. There's more to defending than interceptions. Quite a lot more.
Kagawa is hardworking and does a lot of tracking back. I always see him taking deeper positions when we are under pressure. What I can say about him is that he is a bit of a lightweight. He always seems to be bundled off the ball. He also needs to start shooting more.
What an absurd thing to say. I wasn't referring to carrick or Fletcher BTW but don't let that get in the way of a completely ridiculous assertion based on Andy Mitten's ITK reporting. So Kagawa's appreciated by t he coaching staff...they're hardly likely to say he's shit, are they?
He'll be out of the door quite quckly IMHO
Well said. He tracked back against Sunderland but was very ineffective
I meant holding midfielder ie Busquets.
If he wins the ball more than the other options bar Valencia its a very weird thing to suggest he doesn't do enough when we dont have the ball. That doesn't mean he's always in the right place, but it certainly means he's more active than Young, Januzaj, Nani and Rooney when we dont have it.
We could win 5-3 evcery game or lose5-3...bit like Tommy Docherty's Utd
What is your argument?
You said he doesn't work hard enough off the ball. I disagreed, as I think he, like every other player in the squad, tries their very hardest when on the pitch. All I did was back that up by saying Andy Mitten - who has close connections to the club - reported that our coaching staff are of the belief that Kagawa's work rate can go unnoticed. Your opinion being the one they would be refuting. What completely ridiculous assertion are you referring to? You mentioned Ki, and I still don't know why, so I just made a point of suggesting that his performances, like so many others against our midfield, don't set any kind of benchmark. More often than not, these midfielders aren't very good. Or, we do sign one of those midfielders, and they get hounded to high heaven.
I'm even discussing Kagawa's abilities or whether he will stay here. All I am saying is that it's pretty evident to me that he works hard off the ball.
What about Torres then?
From the standpoint of a fanboy, clearly!
In fact Kagawa is just short of recovering the ball as much as Oscar at Chelsea, a bit more than Willian, far more than Schurrle and a million miles more than Hazard. I suspect Mourinho would be happy with him
Yeah, movement.
Kagawa's coach and mentor in Japan clearly stated that Kagawa's biggest strength wasn't his techinique or creativity, but his intense, constant and clever off-the-ball movement. When he joined us, Kagawa got the best BEEP-test scores since Beckham. Hardly a coinscidence.
You can criticize Kagawa for a lot of things. Lack of confidence, lack of aggression, lack of strength, too unselfish, and too unwilling to take on players etc. This is all valid critique. But there are 3 things that Kagawa excels at to a degree that's so high that it would be preposterous to criticize it, seeing as he's right up there with the very best: off-the-ball movement, technique, and football intelligence. In these aspects, he's among the best in the league. And if we change our style to better accomodate these skillsets, then Kagawa will obviously play better. And that is why I'm so happy we signed Mata. Like some other people have posted, it truly is a blessing in disguise.
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