Moyes So Far!

[Cina]

Would you be more happy to see Young play like shit next game and then us signing Ronaldo (or someone worse, let say Reus) or to see Young playing good the next game and then continuing with him for another few years?

I'd prefer to see Young play well if it meant we won the game of football, obviously, aren't results the most important thing here? If Young is playing well it means he's proving me wrong and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Also, that's entirely senseless because no player having a single good game would ever stop us signing a much better player so your whole analogy is a bit ... silly.

I'd agree, but once again I repeat, that's not how I feel, it seems to be how a lot here feel.

And? They're being stupid, I'm pointing that out, why are you trying to defend them if you agree?

Are you serious telling me you'd not want United to lose if we were playing Chelsea/Arsenal in the last game of the season and they're 1pt ahead of Liverpool on the verge of their 20th/21st title, whilst we have nothing to play for in that game?

No, how can you possibly divulge that from my post? I'm saying your little comparison has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

EDIT: Not saying I want us to lose/win, that's irrelevant.

Doubt anyone talks or even thinks like that. They most likely just don't rate Moyes and think other managers would be better for us than Moyes, which he seems to proving conclusively this season.

I absolutely think they do think like that, actually. It's hardly a coincidence that the same posters who were in the big Mourinho wankfest last night are also the exact same supporters who are now in here actively looking for excuses to get rid of Moyes.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Indeed. I find the idea of wanting your manager to fail just utterly miserable really, it baffles my mind in every way. It seems the main people who are doing it are also those who have a love-in for people like Mourinho and are constantly trying to remind us how much better he is and how they wanted him here and not Moyes.

I think the real reason they're actively seeking this is so they personally can tell other posters that they were right and the other poster was wrong and shove the whole thing in their face, it's just sad.

I don't know... I think some people have just reached the end of their tether and will take anything just to have him out. It's the barganing stage in the 5 stages of greif if you will.

There will be a few in the "look how right I was" brigade - but not that many I'd imagine, ultimately, a fair chunk of people didn't want him in the first place, and I'd hope the general Caf poster is above such nonsense. If anything, I'd say the inverse is more likely to be true, and there are possibly people who don't want him to succeed because otherwise they would be proved wrong... if that make sense.

 

[Getsme]

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Truth is; if we kick him out now we'll never know. He could turn it around and be quite successful with us, or he could not. I want to find out first and if he isn't for the job we'd know next season, there'd be no complaints from me if we actually gave the man a chance. Half a season is not a chance.

I’d agree with you 100% if I saw light at the end of the tunnel, but I dont. I don’t think he will be sacked, but if we don’t finish 4th then he deserves to be IMO.

If for example he changes our style and starts to put his stamp on the team then maybe he will get another year, but he’s showing nothing but one dimensional football. I like him as a person but sometimes the shoe doesn’t fit.

 

[Cina]

I don't know... I think some people have just reached the end of their tether and will take anything just to have him out. It's the barganing stage in the 5 stages of greif if you will.

There will be a few in the "look how right I was" brigade - but not that many I'd imagine, ultimately, a fair chunk of people didn't want him in the first place, and I'd hope the general Caf poster is above such nonsense. If anything, I'd say the inverse is more likely to be true, and there are possibly people who don't want him to succeed because otherwise they would be proved wrong... if that make sense.

I think you're underestimating the egos of some people on here, AN!.

 

[Revan]

I'd prefer to see Young play well if it meant we won the game of football, obviously, aren't results the most important thing here? If Young is playing well it means he's proving me wrong and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Also, that's entirely senseless because no player having a single good game would ever stop us signing a much better player so your whole analogy is a bit ... silly.

And if we win and Moyes actually becomes good then I want us to win too (in fact I said that I want us to win anyway cause he won't get sacked). But another victory (like some we have had this season) won't make Moyes a better manager, soon will follow many other defeats (of course my opinion, I haven't come from the future) and in long term it will be better if he gets the sack rather than giving false hopes that he is good by defeating a relegation fodder every second game we meet them.

 

[Cal?]

The profit everyone thinks they are in for isn't from selling the club though. Nobody is going to spend £2bn+ on a club. Those looking for a new plaything will go for a cheap club and buy good players like all the sugar daddies, those looking to turn a profit will follow a similar model to the Glazers, taking on a club with potential and maximising profits.


The Glazers will get their money through dividends once the debt is serviced and they work out the maintenance costs of keeping the club at the top.

It'll be a balancing act of keeping the club as one of if not the biggest in the world by keeping success on the field and making us attractive to sponsors and then pulling out their salaries.

You know this?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Glazers are less than thrilled with the Moyes reign and hopefully they act soon.

 

[Tooni]

The Glazers have already made their money in the stock market and considering they're not selling any more shares it doesn't effect them one bit.

If anything, seeing the secondary shares drop down to an all time low would benefit them as they could purchase them all back at the reduced rate and gain back full ownership of the club which would then have seen them "make a profit" from the IPO.

There is really no benefit in letting the share price go down from Glazer's perspective. The 52 week low is 14.4 and all time low is 12.25 and there is no way they will be able to buy back all those shares on an average price below the IPO price. Even a bit of insider purchase from them will send the stocks soaring.

As long as the club was privately held, the valuations could have been subjective but now with part of the club being floated in public there is a more objective evidence on the valuation. No owner would like to see the value of their assets go down in market's eyes irrespective of whether they want to sell or not.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I absolutely think they do think like that, actually. It's hardly a coincidence that the same posters who were in the big Mourinho wankfest last night are also the exact same supporters who are now in here actively looking for excuses to get rid of Moyes.

You're making assumptions though. Can someone not rate Mourinho as the best manager around and not rate Moyes? I'm guessing tons of neutrals see it that way.

And excuses? Why would one need excuses? He's already give plenty of reasons.q

 

[reelworld]

It seems from various reports that he doesn't have the whole dressing room onside. This will improve as he gets more of 'his own' players in.

There was always going to be a knock on effect from Fergie leaving. Most of that title winning squad had been here for some time and they had only ever known Fergie in charge. So the feeling when he left would likely have been akin to losing a father and your mum turning up at the funeral with a new fella. a ginger one at that.

If we kept losing, even 'his own' players would lose faith in him. You think Mata will stick around if we finished outside top 4 for consecutive seasons?

 

[Cina]

You're making assumptions though. Can someone not rate Mourinho as the best manager around and not rate Moyes? I'm guessing tons of neutrals see it that way.

And excuses? Why would one need excuses? He's already give plenty of reasons.q

Of course not, seeing as I think that's (sort of) the case too. I don't think he's the best around, though. What I mean is that some posters actively use it to serve their agenda on here and absolutely love being right and want things to happen so they can say "I told you so". Similar to real life, really. People want certain things to happen so they can prove others wrong, because at heart we're all a bunch of egotistical twits.

And if we win and Moyes actually becomes good then I want us to win too (in fact I said that I want us to win anyway cause he won't get sacked). But another victory (like some we have had this season) won't make Moyes a better manager, soon will follow many other defeats (of course my opinion, I haven't come from the future) and in long term it will be better if he gets the sack rather than giving false hopes that he is good by defeating a relegation fodder every second game we meet them.

Then maybe hope for that to happen and be a little positive rather than hoping for him to fail instead. Just sayin'.

 

[Tomalonge]

I’d agree with you 100% if I saw light at the end of the tunnel, but I dont. I don’t think he will be sacked, but if we don’t finish 4th then he deserves to be IMO.

If for example he changes our style and starts to put his stamp on the team then maybe he will get another year, but he’s showing nothing but one dimensional football. I like him as a person but sometimes the shoe doesn’t fit.

Another post I can agree to disagree with, which is a big improvement. There was use of opinions and everything, I wasn't called a complete moron for holding a different view either.

More like this please, take a note from this guys post, it's a good standard.

Cheers, Getsme.

 

[Revan]

Of course not, seeing as I think that's (sort of) the case too. I don't think he's the best around, though. What I mean is that some posters actively use it to serve their agenda on here and absolutely love being right and want things to happen so they can say "I told you so". Similar to real life, really? People want certain things to happen so they can prove others wrong, because at heart we're all a bunch of egotistical twits.

Then maybe hope for that to happen and be a little positive rather than hoping for him to fail instead. Just sayin'.

There won't be 'I told you so' from anybody. Predicting that Moyes won't be good doesn't make anyone Nostradamus. It was one of the most easiest predictions to make in recent years (about football). If Moyes becomes success 'I told you so' from his supporters make sense because it was a difficult thing to predict.

 

[Cal?]

I'd prefer to see Young play well if it meant we won the game of football, obviously, aren't results the most important thing here? If Young is playing well it means he's proving me wrong and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Also, that's entirely senseless because no player having a single good game would ever stop us signing a much better player so your whole analogy is a bit ... silly.

Long term results are the most important thing, especially in this write-off season.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not sure he has that ruthless streak anymore like he did in 90s. Some of the player we have at our club would have been axed in 90s. I'm sure Fergie would have axed Ferdinand and Evra in their 30s back then.

Exactly, you think about how he got rid of Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ince, Stam, Keane, he went soft in his last years. Keeping Anderson is proof of that.

 

[Cina]

Long term results are the most important thing, especially in this write-off season.

Why do you keep making points irrelevant to what I said?

There won't be 'I told you so' from anybody. Predicting that Moyes won't be good doesn't make anyone Nostradamus. It was one of the most easiest predictions to make in recent years (about football). If Moyes becomes success 'I told you so' from his supporters make sense because it was a difficult thing to predict.

The point is, Revan, that actively seeking the manager of your club to fail is senseless and counter-productive, we should be rooting for him to succeed, not focusing on "what ifs" and "i wish this were the case"

Anyway, I'll leave this thread be now, it's not a place for me.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Of course not, seeing as I think that's (sort of) the case too. I don't think he's the best around, though. What I mean is that some posters actively use it to serve their agenda on here and absolutely love being right and want things to happen so they can say "I told you so". Similar to real life, really? People want certain things to happen so they can prove others wrong, because at heart we're all a bunch of egotistical twits.

I reckon that might possibly be happening with some people. It's harder to spot when you agree a great deal with those people.

But to be honest, I think the caf has been quite good regarding Moyes, as have United fans in general. He and we have been the laughing stock of the footballing world this season and we're well past the point where he would have been sacked, yet the debate about him is well reasoned and logical (mostly).

 

[Cal?]

Of course not, seeing as I think that's (sort of) the case too. I don't think he's the best around, though. What I mean is that some posters actively use it to serve their agenda on here and absolutely love being right and want things to happen so they can say "I told you so". Similar to real life, really. People want certain things to happen so they can prove others wrong, because at heart we're all a bunch of egotistical twits.

I'd much rather United dominate for years to come than tell people I know Mourinho is a better manager than Moyes, considering 99% of the world could have made that prediction.

 

[Siorac]

I absolutely think they do think like that, actually. It's hardly a coincidence that the same posters who were in the big Mourinho wankfest last night are also the exact same supporters who are now in here actively looking for excuses to get rid of Moyes.

It's not like anyone has to make up far-fetched excuses to get rid of Moyes. It doesn't take a lot of "active looking" to find some very good reasons for wanting rid of him. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Many people thought Mourinho would be a far better choice than Moyes; hence the wankfest over him now they're being proven right. It's mostly because of regret, because of 'what might have been'. I'm prone to waxing lyrical about Vidal because I'm still pissed that we didn't even try to get him in 2011 when it was blindingly obvious that we needed at least one CM and he was available on the cheap. That doesn't mean I wanted Cleverley to fail though.

I thought it was sort of admirable that United rewarded Moyes with the chance after he did good things at Everton. I thought it sent a message that British managers or those successful in British football still have a chance at the top clubs. I now think it was the wrong decision and I'm not happy to be proven wrong.

 

[StuCol]

If we kept losing, even 'his own' players would lose faith in him. You think Mata will stick around if we finished outside top 4 for consecutive seasons?

Its a long stretch bedtween now and us being out of the top four for consecutive seasons isn't it. Ever so slightly doom mongery that post.

Next season is the real test. My worry is us not being able to get the right players in summer if we are not in the champions league.

 

[Cal?]

Why do you keep making points irrelevant to what I said?

Based on that analogy, Young playing well for 1 game and getting us 3 pts will in the end cost us a lot more points than another shit game and we sign Reus to replace him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

For anyone who belives in the Moyes magic here are a few points that show that we are struggling big time..

This summer was the start of what has become a farce-like episode in the history of our club and signing Fellaini was the sad punchline!

1. Many games this season we had no shape at all, our last game vs Stoke was a clear example of bad tactics and bad management.

2. Strange comments to the press. How many times have we been better even if we are clearly playing without a clue?? How many times haven´t we had any luck?? It´s said that teams achive their luck with work ethic?? And there are many more.. I got news for you Moyes, managers who kling on to luck and other hokus pokus things are never in control of their own fate.

3. No progress.. Same tactics with few good results, no youth (Januzaj apart, he was clearly on his way last year) and no entertainment value what so ever.

I could go on and on about our no progression under Moyes we have constantly been apalling this season. Well 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1) with average wingers has been shown to be not effective at all. And with our midfield lacking why haven´t we changed our tactics to 4-2-3-1 ?? And when we are loosing why not throw the kitchen sink?

We won the league last season with apparently terrible squad some have been saying, Moyes has said we need 4-5 players. We won with 89pts the same total as City the season before and the 3rd or 4th highest total in the history of the PL, now we could manage 25 - 30pts less than last season with the same squad..

We could argue that Moyes has given youth a chance in the past. But I see it differently he had to because of lacking funds at Everton, Ross Barkley had little playing time at Everton under Moyes but this year.... He has shown no desire to use youth and looks stubborn and dated in his approach.. Wilf Zaha anyone? Why hasn´t he had a chance when we had wingers giving us fcuk all? RB we have a couple of them on our papers in the youth deparment why use CB there? And this could be a great tool to motivate and give clear messages to the under performing players.

We have scored an impressive 39 goals in the PL this season, 16 came at Old Trafford.. Well you could argue that we are defensively setup? Well we have let in 29 that´s very impressive! 10 goals in plus after 24 games... Hull have let in 30 and Everton have scored 37... We have scored less than most of our rivals and let in more goals so if we are defensively minded we are doing a terrible job of it and clearly we aren´t attacking!

4. Fear factor. Moyes looks like a Deer in the headlights and our players are catching that virus fast.. Teams are having a go at us any given chance and we can´t punish anybody that´s trying!

5. He has no control over the players and they don´t seem to believe in his approach.. When that happens normally the writing is on the wall, but Moyes never has a go at anyone out there. He looks delusional when he speaks out about our performances, players look like they don´t give a shit.
He has lost the locker room and his compatriots that he brought with him look out of their depth! I could name a few times this season when the camera has panned over to us and Moyes and co look like they don´t know what to do next...

We need a manager that has balls, likes to take chances and plays modern football, Moyes sadly ticks very few of these boxes.
Sadly I think this experiment has run it´s course.. The sooner he goes the sooner we can start the rebuilding that is needed.

It's the fact he just sits there. He should be on the touchline organising his team and giving them a rollocking. Him and his coaching staff just seem to be chuffed to be here. We say about players coming here and thinking they have made it. I get the same impression with this lot.

 

[Revan]

The point is, Revan, that actively seeking the manager of your club to fail is senseless and counter-productive, we should be rooting for him to succeed, not focusing on "what ifs" and "i wish this were the case"

Anyway, I'll leave this thread be now, it's not a place for me.

And pretty much, every fan wanted him to succedd (not because I care for him but because if he succedds than the club succedds too). But to a lot of people that looks impossible, so they (in this case me is a part of they) want someone better to replace him. If the expectations are very low (4th place) and he is doing his best to make the fouth place impossible, then I think a lot of fans are right to be worry.

 

[Spider]

Buying better players won't be enough - unless we get rid of a manger who is clueless, we need a strong manager like Mourinho. Its obvious.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's the fact he just sits there. He should be on the touchline organising his team and giving them a rollocking. Him and his coaching staff just seem to be chuffed to be here. We say about players coming here and thinking they have made it. I get the same impression with this lot.

No I don't get that impression at all. He comes across as genuinely hard working and as if he actually gives a shit (like pretty much every other manager). What he looks, and probably is, is completely out of his depth.

 

[prarek]

 

[Pexbo]

Actually I have given a few other names of proven managers (Van Gaal, Bielsa, Heynckess, Simeone, Prandelli, Hiddink, Capello).

If only Barcelona would have gone with the proven Unai Emery instead of the unproven Pep Guardiola, we likely would have had 5 European Cups by now. And interestingly the proven Zacheroni and Del Neri were big failures while the unproven Conte was such a big success.

I think and always thought that it is better to be unproven (but high potential) rather than being proven mediocre.

Capello is 67, Van Gaal 62, Heynckess 68 and retired, Hiddink is 67 and Bielsa I wouldn't be adverse to but is also nearly 60.

Prandelli's club career is about as inspiring as Moyes' and I'm not convinced Simione could be pinched from Atletico.


You then go on to say we should show faith in an unproven manager? That's what I'm doing, giving him the summer to build his own squad.

If you think what he did last summer was bad, try and think of it in the longer term rather than short term fixes. Had Moyes just bought any old players what could that have done in the long term? Without time to see the strengths and weaknesses in this squad he could have bought incorrectly and given the squad even more problems. Some even think that happened with Fellaini but it was obvious we needed a midfielder and he needed someone he trusted.

I think he's sensible to take a season to get a real measure of the squads issues, it's how he addresses them this summer that is the deal maker or breaker for me.


This is just one season in a club that has been here for well over a century. There's been a lot worse years than this. Let's just sit tight and have a bit of blind faith in United for a change.

 

[RoadTrip]

It's the fact he just sits there. He should be on the touchline organising his team and giving them a rollocking. Him and his coaching staff just seem to be chuffed to be here. We say about players coming here and thinking they have made it. I get the same impression with this lot.

I know that in all the games I go to, he's pretty much constantly on the touchline - you're making a completely incorrect judgement here based on one photo.

If there is something you can say he isn't, it it at least that he cares and that he is hard working. However, he is clearly not only feeling the pressure, but it's also getting the better of him. Can't fault his work rate, but he just isn't cut out for it.

 

[RoadTrip]

Capello is 67, Van Gaal 62, Heynckess 68 and retired, Hiddink is 67 and Bielsa I wouldn't be adverse to but is also nearly 60.

Prandelli's club career is about as inspiring as Moyes' and I'm not convinced Simione could be pinched from Atletico.


You then go on to say we should show faith in an unproven manager? That's what I'm doing, giving him the summer to build his own squad.

If you think what he did last summer was bad, try and think of it in the longer term rather than short term fixes. Had Moyes just bought any old players what could that have done in the long term? Without time to see the strengths and weaknesses in this squad he could have bought incorrectly and given the squad even more problems. Some even think that happened with Fellaini but it was obvious we needed a midfielder and he needed someone he trusted.

I think he's sensible to take a season to get a real measure of the squads issues, it's how he addresses them this summer that is the deal maker or breaker for me.


This is just one season in a club that has been here for well over a century. There's been a lot worse years than this. Let's just sit tight and have a bit of blind faith in United for a change.

Great post.

 

[didsbury1982]

Great post.

Agreed.

 

[Cal?]

I know that in all the games I go to, he's pretty much constantly on the touchline - you're making a completely incorrect judgement here based on one photo.

If there is something you can say he isn't, it it at least that he cares and that he is hard working. However, he is clearly not only feeling the pressure, but it's also getting the better of him. Can't fault his work rate, but he just isn't cut out for it.

Oh dear, has it gone that far now that "hard working" is used as a positive about Moyes? Can someone please name one manager at any top club who's famous for being lazy?

 

[Siorac]

You then go on to say we should show faith in an unproven manager? That's what I'm doing, giving him the summer to build his own squad.

If you think what he did last summer was bad, try and think of it in the longer term rather than short term fixes. Had Moyes just bought any old players what could that have done in the long term? Without time to see the strengths and weaknesses in this squad he could have bought incorrectly and given the squad even more problems. Some even think that happened with Fellaini but it was obvious we needed a midfielder and he needed someone he trusted.

I think he's sensible to take a season to get a real measure of the squads issues, it's how he addresses them this summer that is the deal maker or breaker for me.

This is just one season in a club that has been here for well over a century. There's been a lot worse years than this. Let's just sit tight and have a bit of blind faith in United for a change.

How many new signings does it take to start calling it Moyes' squad? What if he only signs one or two players in the summer? Will it still be someone else's squad? How does this work?

Why can't he be expected to make it work with the existing squad plus over 70 million worth of new players plus one of the most talented teenagers in world football?

 

[Getsme]

Next season is the real test. My worry is us not being able to get the right players in summer if we are not in the champions league.

That was a worry of mine until I put some serious thought into.
There are many things a player wants when he switches club, money being the main one, Champion’s league is definitely up there but so is being part of a new and exciting team. It will mean the like of Woodward and Moyes (if he’s still here) selling the club to potential signing.

In fairness to them they seemed to have got Mata on board and Rooney is going to sign a new deal if rumours are to be believed, hopefully other targets will buy into the club. We also have a fantastic name and are one of the biggest teams in the world. WE also buy young so players will know they have time on their hands. A season without Champions League won’t be pleasant but I don’t think it will be a disaster.

 

[Cal?]

How many new signings does it take to start calling it Moyes' squad? What if he only signs one or two players in the summer? Will it still be someone else's squad? How does this work?

Why can't he be expected to make it work with the existing squad plus over 70 million worth of new players plus one of the most talented teenagers in world football?

This. Every other manager at every other club goes it and handle the existing squad and make minor adjustments, yet apparently the United way is to give Moyes a free reign and sign an entire squad before judging him.

 

[Pexbo]

How many new signings does it take to start calling it Moyes' squad? What if he only signs one or two players in the summer? Will it still be someone else's squad? How does this work?

Why can't he be expected to make it work with the existing squad plus over 70 million worth of new players plus one of the most talented teenagers in world football?

We've already had this conversation. Senior players not playing for him, no midfield, no backup left back, poor wingers.

So far he has bought a midfielder who has been injured for 90% of the season and his other signing had had 2 games with us.

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

We've already had this conversation. Senior players not playing for him, no midfield, no backup left back, poor wingers.

So far he has bought a midfielder who has been injured for 90% of the season and his other signing had had 2 games with us.

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

If Moyes gets his squad - what should be the expectation? Title challenge or Top Four?

 

[Kostur]

If Moyes gets his squad - what should be the expectation? Title challenge or Top Four?

Given the calibre of player he seems to be aiming for ( Mata etc. ) then it's naturally the title. I'm with Pexbo on this one.

 

[Siorac]

We've already had this conversation. Senior players not playing for him, no midfield, no backup left back, poor wingers.

So far he has bought a midfielder who has been injured for 90% of the season and his other signing had had 2 games with us.

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

And if we spend 100m on top class players and Moyes still fails with them, then what? The next manager will spend another 170m on new players to make it 'his' squad?

Managers simply cannot be given a free right with the chequebook if they cannot get even anything remotely decent out of the playing staff they have at their disposal. We can't afford that, we're not an oil club. We need a manager who can get the best out of the players we have. Moyes has to show remarkable, drastic improvement this season, otherwise it's lunacy to entrust him with huge amounts of money.

 

[didsbury1982]

We've already had this conversation. Senior players not playing for him, no midfield, no backup left back, poor wingers.

So far he has bought a midfielder who has been injured for 90% of the season and his other signing had had 2 games with us.

It's blindingly obvious that we are going to have a big clear out and bring in some top class players. When it happens, it'll be Moyes squad. If it doesn't happen this summer he'll have no excuses next season.

I don't understand how anyone couldn't see this as a reasonable way of looking at the situation.

 

[Pexbo]

If Moyes gets his squad - what should be the expectation? Title challenge or Top Four?

If he's really going to be backed like the reports say he is with "4 or 5 Mata's" then I'd say a title challenge is the expectation but you'd settle for top 4 as long as we keep progressing.

 

[Kostur]

And if we spend 100m on top class players and Moyes still fails with them, then what? The next manager will spend another 170m on new players to make it 'his' squad?

Managers simply cannot be given a free right with the chequebook if they cannot get even anything remotely decent out of the playing staff they have at their disposal. We can't afford that, we're not an oil club. We need a manager who can get the best out of the players we have. Moyes has to show remarkable, drastic improvement this season, otherwise it's lunacy to entrust him with huge amounts of money.

Ferguson, who was a hundred times the manager Moyes is, couldn't get 'the best' out of Nani, Cleverley, Valencia or Young last season. Why would you expect Moyes to get anything out of them ?