What, that United are a laughing stock?
Oh how we laughed when Rafa took the CL winners down the league in Italy.
Boot's on the other foot now isn't it? We look a bit silly now don't we?
Moyes So Far!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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What, that United are a laughing stock?
Oh how we laughed when Rafa took the CL winners down the league in Italy.
Boot's on the other foot now isn't it? We look a bit silly now don't we?
No. You do though.
fecking hell... our 2 main strikers were injured for ages and now they are back... give them and Moyes some more time... one season or two... he was chosen by SAF... in SAF I trust... hence I trust him too... I refuse to join the bandwagon...
On what basis do you make this statement?
Edit: Alright, I accept that you're not on the keep him at all costs side, but seriously, why do you make that statement?
He had a nice little summer window in which he seemed to struggle to find targets except for the expected/unrealistic ones. Anyhow, getting something close to the best out of what we've got is also part of the issue, and he's nowhere near.
I don't think anyone is comparing the tasks they're faced with directly. Some are - perhaps - using Fergie as an analogy, a simple reminder that it can pay off to be a little patient.
And it's over-simplifying matters to say that all Moyes needs to do is to build a successful team. He has to gain full control of a monster of a football club that is presently feeling the absence of perhaps the greatest manager in history. It's very hard to assess exactly how badly this impact in-itself is felt at the moment - which makes it premature, in my opinion, to pass judgment on Moyes.
I will give him another window but the truth is he has already had 2 windows to do something. Apart from that building the team also involves improving the players you already have. Yet hes failed horribly in that as well.
That is my feeling as well. It's one thing to underperform with a squad that is not your own, and very average in some areas, it's quite another to underperform following £120m+ of investment. There will have to be significant signs of progress during next season.
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We will never know how good moyes actually is, 4 years of shit football there will still be a possibility that he turn corner on his 5th seasons, but one thing im sure is that whatever resources and patience we give him, if we give the same to mourinho, pep, or klopp, they will easilly surpass moyes iregardless of whether they will stick long term or ahort term
He won't be afforded four years of shite football and/or poor results. He'll be given money to spend come summer. The expectations will be high. He'll have to deliver something next season, there's nae doubt 'bout that. Some may think Charlton is a sentimental old fool and Fergie a stubborn git - but they won't stand for United lingering down the table. Charlton has said as much himself, in fact.
I'm starting to get the feeling that quite a few of the Moyes Out crowd only want him out because their feelings have been hurt by a bit of banter by oppo fans.
You mean one, right?
Will you still trust him if we are in the same position next season, what about the season after that?
Ive lost patience with him after the Stoke game, I have saw nothing so far that has convinced me that he is the man for the job, have you? I hope I am wrong and he turns it around, ill gladly admit it but my feeling is I wont be.
Think pretty much everyone, including the Moyes in brigade have said that'd be a far better time to judge him.
Nobody is saying we should keep him regardless of the results for the whole of his 6 year contract, we're just saying we haven't seen enough either way to make a decision yet. There have been a lot of negatives so far, yes, but there have also been some positives. For the Fellaini (and he's still unproven) debacle there's the Mata signing to cancel it out. For the lack of signings in the summer we got an Adnan we didn't know about. Rooney's gone from wanting away to being one of the most dedicated players we have (on the pitch).
The truth is it's somewhere between at the moment. I'm not saying we should definitely keep him, but I'm not saying we should immediately get rid either. I've said since day one that I'll start judging him properly after 18 months. Then I may very well even join the Moyes Out ranks.
Two top quality CM,a left back to go straight into the first 11 and a back up.A wide man/winger and then promote youth, so 5 players, spending whatever it takes to get the mids and LB and wide man! We need to sell the two LB we have and Nani and probably Young and Cleverley also.Maybe not all that exactly but something close to in my opinion!
There is a fine line between supporting the manager and stubbornly ignoring incompetence . The game has changed since the 80's. Some of the ideals we hold from that time just don't fit in the modern era of the game. Bayern, Real, Barcelona have all had at least 3 managers in the last 5 year. But they still expect to compete for both the league and Champions league. Changing managers when they fall short (despite what we have been led to believe) is not bad thing. We can't afford to fall behind the rest of the top clubs. Liverpool is a perfect example. This is an era were a club's reputation and history means very little if you don't have an obscenely wealthy owner.
I agree to some extent but the truth is you could say this about any team in the top 7 except from maybe City. Everyone has crucial areas that need investing but the difference is their managers are dealing with it alot better than Moyes at the moment.
You're right mate they are, but long term we'll do better business and I think it would be difficult for any new manager to arrive at a team that has just won the league and start ripping it up so early.It really did need a season before major surgery, but the the squad has fallen apart and at least now we can all see the blatant weaknesses and Moyes will be able to also.I can't understand people worrying that we won't bring in the quality this summer, but I understand fully that people are concerned about how Moyes and his coaching staff will get them to perform.Come August we will have a pretty good idea of how a future may look under Moyes.Let's hope it's pretty, if not then I will quietly withdraw my support for him.
I agree that we haven't seen enough, but from what we have seen it doesn't look pretty and some feel like they don't want to witness anymore. He seems to be getting a free ride at the moment and is hiding away from the results instead of taking responsibility for them. Many fans had hoped to see a new United, something different, instead we have a diluted version of Sir Alex Ferguson.
Yes there has been positives, but few and far between, further to that they have been far outweighed by the negatives.
It's not about being a 'topred' or a 'glory hunter' it's about wanting the best for the club we all support, if fans are raising concerns it's for a legitimate reason, not because they fancy some 'Moyes bashing'. I'd hazard a guess and say that 80%+ of our fan base would have been happy with fourth, a half decent FA cup run and some decent football, it's looking likely that we will get none of this.
In his season as caretaker, Dalglish was a vast, vast improvement on Hodgson. But even if he hadn't been, it would still have been the right decision.
Roy was sacked too late.
That's football though, there were also a few trophyless seasons with Fergie. That's the greatest manager ever too.
If, however, it is the same situation this time next year then Moyes would have to go. 7 months is a ridiculous time to sack a manager, 18 months isn't.
If, however, it is the same situation this time next year then Moyes would have to go. 7 months is a ridiculous time to sack a manager, 18 months isn't.
Why?
Seriously. I don't think you can give any good reason other than appealing to tradition or that being patient is a virtue in and of itself. There are many managers who won't deserve 18 months.
Or for that matter, why 18 months? Why is that better than 12 months? 8? Or, if going the other direction - why not 24 months? or 36?
Why? Genuine question.
Why?
Because it gives him time to build a squad. Only two of the current players are his so 95% of the squad are absolutely not his fault.
Because it still could be a case of bad form instead of bad philosophy.
Because the people who know a lot about football in the club are still backing him.
Because we've spent the last 10 years laughing at the merry-go-round clubs.
Because he's not gotten rid of the deadwood yet.
Because I believe it's the right course of action.
Because he's not the only change, could be the backroom staff.
Because of the unpredictability of football, this could be the blip at the start of a great career (Not looking likely to be fair, but I've seen Greece win the fecking Euro's.)
Yes 7 months is, I agree However and it's a big however, we have seen no improvement, zilch, in fact we have gone backwards. That's the big difference here, if we had something to hold on to, something to believe in then I'm certain that the fans would understand and back him 100%, I know I would.
Boo-fecking-hoo.
Sensible post. 100% this.
You ok, you seem to be suffering a wee bit.
That's ridiculous.
Why would anyone care about what the fans say as long as the manager is doing a good job?
The reasons people want Moyes out is Moyes and the results, simple as. I am not one of those, yet, but his apologists should stop coming up with such lame excuses when the reason is pretty straight forward.
I'm an apologist now?
Well yes but not in our case, surely? Anyone who didn't expect transition and a certain amount of pain this season was being wilfully obtuse. Granted, the pain has been in excess of what anyone could have expected but 7 months is a nonsensical timeframe to judge anyone confronted with the situation Moyes was. Champions, yes but coming after Fergie into a mammoth job with an aging squad and a new Chief Exec...the sack-him-now brigade are not being realistic.
Moyes may turn out to be shit but to decide that now, with so much unclear, is premature.
Whatever you are, that post really made no sense.
I'm absolutely fine. I'm not one of those that 'just can't take witnessing this anymore'. Someone pass Getsme the tissues.
And why should he get that? Why let an inferior manager overhaul the squad, just because he should have more time, when a superior manager could go in and get much better results without the great costs and risks of an overhaul?
Managers don't deserve to have their own boys by default. They should earn it.
This is a valid argument. In the case of Hodgson however, it clearly was a case of bad philosophy which is why you are forever wrong arguing any manager should get 18 months at least.
It is not quite as cut and dried with Moyes but do you really see any evidence on the pitch of a good philosophy? I've watched new managers implement new philosophies that were good and fail to get results for their first season. It looks very different to what Moyes is doing.
Silly of you to have done so in the first place. Puffing yourself up as a non-merry-go-round club when you have the manager least likely to ever be sacked or needing to be sacked for the past 25 years is hollow ground to stomp on.
His decision that he is accountable for. Then he signed some more deadwood for you.
All the more reason to sack him then. Those are his people.
And the tumescent football. I'd be quite happy to give him time if he was delivering either good results or a style of football that indicated that better times are coming. He's doing neither. He's failed at everything apart from keeping Rooney, buying Mata and playing Januzaj. That's not good enough to be the manager of one of the biggest clubs in Europe. After several months of performing below expectations I expect to see an attempt at making changes. If it hasn't worked in 30+ games, chances are it won't work in the next 30+ games. I can't understand why he keeps sticking to an approach that has been proven not to work.
I don't disagree, as well. With the quality of players at his disposal specially after buying Mata he should really improve the playing style. We were trailing by a goal at Stoke and all we could do was lump it up, that was really depressing to watch.
Did you watch the Stoke game? what good is it having those two back if Moyes isn't capeable of getting the ball into them? perhaps they could get onto a few more of those hard, hopeful smacks we get across from far out wide over the course of the season on average, but its not a long term philosophy we should be clinging to now is it?
Putting a timelimit on it seems a bit arbitrary, but then I suppose 3 transfer windows would give a good indication of the direction the clubs going in. Take Rodgers for you for example, mostly uninspiring signings in his first transfer window, barely improved league position in that first season, but his signings in the January transfer window (Sturridge and Coutinho notably) have paid off big-time this year, as well as the players he's brought in over the Summer and now you're chasing Champion's League for the first time since 2009.
Moyes will probably be given at least that kind of time to see what's going on, for me the only difference between this season and last is that last season moments of brilliance from our key players dragged us through games in which we struggled. This season not so much.
and injuries ... take RVP and Rooney out of last years team fpr long periods and we/SAF would have struggled for top 4 in my opinion.
True. Im ready to give him support come summer. But I really wanna see some sort of improvement in terms of playing style because he certainly has the players to achieve something far higher than he is currently producing.
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