Sounds very reasonable.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Sounds very reasonable.
Thanks.
Silva can play that role because he has a far better midfield behind him on top of being left footed. This season its only against Arsenal that in our 1 zero win that we allowed our forwards to inter change with him out on the left. Usually we stick him out there and expect him to do magic from there and he is constantly forced to cut in in effectually.
Well, that's untrue. He was the only player moving the ball forward in the middle of the pitch. Got quite a few mentions as motm.
He was subbed probably because he was not playing the ball down the wings Moyes style.
You are welcome. I know whenever I resort to calling people names as part of my argument, I've got a very strong argument.
Yeah, well - we all know what state the midfield is in. Every single player out there would benefit from us having a stronger midfield. If Kagawa can't do a better job on the left given our obvious deficiences than Adnan (or Young), well - what can I say? He shouldn't start over said players, I guess.
We should play better football, we should have better players in the middle of the park - I doubt anyone disagrees. It's a general problem, though, it doesn't pertain to Kagawa's situation in particular.
I watched the game and thought he was ineffectual. Are you trying to argue he deserved to keep his place in the side against Cardiff after that performance?
After we scored we spent most of the game with Sunderland attacking United. He was in the same position as plenty of other players on the night. I would describe the entire team performance as ineffectual for the most part.
The CAF MOTM thread is about as reliable as the CAF Match day thread. It's just different people with different opinions. I'd take the manager subbing him as a better measure of his performance,
Correct, he was not ineffectual. He was one of only two players creating scoring chances.
Well we will have to agree to disagree. I think Moyes was correct to sub him on the night.
What chances did he create?
That is where you are wrong. He is being asked to perform out of position in a team without the tools to make it a consistently viable enterprise. The rest that you mentioned are not in such a position.
Come on...
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How am I wrong exactly? What I'm saying is this: we have problems as a team. We have a CM that isn't good enough, doesn't provide enough support for the wide players, doesn't link up well enough with attackers, etc. We suffer from a lack of movement and fluidity. These problems will affect anyone playing on the left in our formation. I maintain that Januzaj and even Young lately have been contributing more and played better in general in spite of our problems as a team than Kagawa has. On the left. In the middle is a different proposition. But our preferred man in Kagawa's favourite position is Wayne Rooney.
You can argue that we should set up differently - and I probably wouldn't disagree. But that's a different debate. Given how we actually play Kagawa clearly hasn't been the best alternative in the one position he can realistically make his own at the moment. That's the issue here. Whether he is in fact asked to play a role he isn't comfortable with is really neither here nor there, is it? It's the position he needs to play in at the moment - he won't start most games for us in what is per now Rooney's role. That won't happen. And, again, I don't see him as being forced to play as a traditional winger on the left - it's a freer sort of role. But it requires a player who will show some initiative - be a bit proactive, as they say.
It's a shame in many ways, as he is a good player. But it doesn't look like it's going to work out.
He needs to become more useful to the team out wide now that he has become our 4th/3rd choice center attacking midfielder under Moyes. It is unfortunate for United that Kagawa has not been utilized more effectively at United because he is one of our current players that could improve the aestheic appeal of our archaic style of play.
He will more useful once we play him more often. He should be second choice behind Januzaj on the left. Young and Valencia can battle for the 2nd spot on the right behind Mata.
You can't be serious. First you keep comparing a player playing out of position to those playing in their natural roles and implying they face the same things. They dont. Furthermore, our entire game at the momment is geared towards the wings. Thus wingers in their natural roles can not use the excuse of the midfield for underperform. Worst of all, you seem to think Kagawa can miraculously make his own a role that has never been his, in a side basing their entire game plan on passing the ball wide, with the forwards in fixed roles and a static midfield. It makes no sense. And to call that role freer is plain taking the piss I'm sorry to say. Frankly as things stand, if we persist with this style of football, we need to plain stop wasting our time and his and sale him. Rather than playing him out of position and hoping for an unlikely miracle on the left.
We'd probably get more change out of him in a wide role if we were to employ him wide right, the way Man City employ Silva on the left.
I don't think along these lines at all. I've been trying to get a very basic point across, seemingly with limited success. Kagawa won't feature much for us in his favourite role, that seems obvious. So he will have to take his chances in a wide role. Which he hasn't done so far - and it doesn't look much like he will either. Perhaps the role we're asking him to play is simply too far off his natural game. Perhaps it's unreasonable to expect him to change his game to the required extent - sure. He looks out of place - and maybe this won't change until we radically alter our system.
Yes, he is basically wasted here as long as we keep playing like we do. I take it that's what you're saying - and I don't disagree.
My main criticism of him is that he seems too dependent on movement/fluidity around him. Unlike Januzaj (who surely isn't a traditional winger either) he seems unable to impose himself on the match when the play isn't flowing. In other words he clearly isn't a player to turn to in our current state. Which means that it shouldn't cause so much outrage that he isn't a starter.
Anybody else think we could retrain him to be a combative box to box midfielder?
He plays well when he' s confident, like most players. I just feel that if handled correctly he's a huge asset for the team. His positives outweigh the negatives. Ferguson handled him brilliantly last season IMO, ease him into the team while increasingly giving him more responsiblity.
In the summer I would have thought he was the ideal replacement for Rooney if he'd left and was expecting him to step up this season. I'm starting to lose that conviction though.
I feel Kagawa is the victim of circumstance. He's joined us in a time of uncertainty, with our new manager unable to experiment for fear of further failure and our team a group of players who are not cohesive enough on the pitch. If he stays around, he will have a part to play there is no doubt. A player of his standards does not just fall into the shadows never to be seen again. However, this is precisely why I cannot see him staying. Another club will come in and buy him and there will be plenty of suitors, needless to say Dortmund will be sniffing around him at any opportunity. I just wish he was a few years older and that we had bought him a few years prior.
He certainly doesn't offer much. Put together a video of his display against Stoke and I'll gladly eat my words.
With the assurance of being first choice in a central position as well as the regular game time and managerial confidence such would imply, the chances are that the outcome would be markedly better than we've seen. Fergie will undoubtedly have had a vision for the future in mind, unfortunately his successor has not shared this plan for the longer term. A pity for both club and player really.
Fair enough. Its just some of us scratch our heads when we see him fit and we see Januzaj on 10, the next to useless Valencia wide right, and Kagawa on the bench. Yet if Kagawa was on 10, and januzaj wide we'd overcome our midfield defieciencies better.
According to bild Moyes wants to sell Shinji Kagawa
Obviously an unreliable twitter account but still, an interesting proposition (i'm sure it has been discussed before). I'm not sure he'd work as a CM in a 2 man midfield but maybe in a 3 he'd be alright.
Surprised?
Iknow he's not been on it while he's been with, something he is aware of also, but I like him and I do not want him sold.I think he'd benefit from being in and around a team that is regularly playing fluent and confident football.He has a future with us!
Now that would be interesting, though it would require more disciplined positioning and for him to get better at dispossessing players. In terms of offensive play, however, if he can maintain the necessary awareness of his surroundings in central midfield, he could certainly become a good option for us in that sense.
There is no point keeping him with the current way of playing. Hes not going to work playing wide left.
He'd need to man up a bit and not let himself be knocked off the ball by a gust of wind!
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first?
Kagawa in midfield is too radical for us.
A midfielder passing the ball forwards?! What kind of lunacy is that??
A midfielder passing the ball forwards?! What kind of lunacy is that??
Could he play like Arteta?
I used to think Arteta was too lightweight but he certainly proved me wrong
I used to think Arteta was too lightweight but he certainly proved me wrong
Maybe we're going to play a 3 man midfield of kagawa, fletch and carrick. With mata rooney and persie up top.
Yeah, though Shinji hasn't proved himself worthy yet, but with both RvP and Rooney injured, he should have gotten a consistent run out behind the cf - which didnt happen. That was mind boggling.
Not surprised. Dont know how to use him so sell him!
Or maybe it's because he's been average for you whenever he has been given a chance and you have three better number 10s.
Yep. I think he's shown more (though admittedly a lot of that has been from a wide position).
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