Shinji Kagawa

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Ainu said:
I feel for Kagawa. He's just wasting his career here. There's a potential world class player somewhere in there, but we'll never get to see him. At least not in a Man United shirt.
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If Moyes is still our manager, he'l be gone in the summer.
 
Never has a player been so adored in return for such a small contribution.

Well, except maybe Fabio.

He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
 
adexkola said:
I blame Ferguson. And Moyes, for continuing the idiocy.
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Naah, he got games under SAF, was never frozen out this way. And it was obvious Sir Alex rated him, what he needed was to build up physically for the league to be stronger with the ball. Moyes simply doesnt rate him.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Which brings up a question. Should a manager actually have to look at the assists chart to decide who to pick and who not to?

I actually dont want him to go back to Dortmund. I want a good PL club to come in for him and him to do great there to stop all this bullshit about him being too weak for the prem. He'd be great at Arsenal but they are rivals and also they dont need him. Everton? Think he'l be great for them under Martinez. He's just so obviously a good player that its really irritating to see him frozen out like this.
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Agreed, although I wouldn't want him to come back and hurt us after. He'd be great for pretty much all passing sides in the league. He'd be brilliant at Liverpool and Arsenal, but obviously they are rivals. The sad thing is we'll probably sell him for like 10m this summer, and by next summer he'll be valued between like 20-30 million.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Never has a player been so adored in return for such a small contribution.

Well, except maybe Fabio.

He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
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It's difficult to contribute when you're on the bench or in the stadium.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Never has a player been so adored in return for such a small contribution.

Well, except maybe Fabio.

He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
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Its the sentiment that our football is never going to change which gets people as well as the fact that he has never gotten the chances. Moyes talked about changing the system and having players interchanging positions but Kagawa is exactly that type of player yet Moyes isnt going to use him. We will likely see the exact same thing happen with Mata.
 
adexkola said:
I blame Ferguson. And Moyes, for continuing the idiocy.
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Fergie at least always had big plans for him, and gave him plenty of chances, and by the end of last season he was starting consistently. He was just unlucky that after a very good start, he got a knee injury that kept him out for a few months, and then struggled a bit for form once everyone was in top form and in the key parts of our season, while he was coming back from injury.
Moyes just doesn't like him, and it's been evident that that has been the case since day 1.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
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I'd go along with this, bar a few games this season hes been poor when-ever hes played. That said i feel for him because hes clearly talented but playing with little or no confidence which isnt helping, that and i think if hes given a prolonged run in the team we would start to see the best of him - that can be said of any player but he must do nothing in training all week for Moyes to keep over looking him (but continue with the likes of Valencia game after game... that alone would be sole crushing for Kagawa)
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
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That's fine. The only issue is he's played really well against Swansea a few weeks ago. Prize? Not ONE minute since...
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Never has a player been so adored in return for such a small contribution.

Well, except maybe Fabio.

He's not contributed much this season and not having him on the bench is hardly a huge loss as he's normally even more anonymous when he comes on.
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Not contributed in terms of what? Numbers? You'd do well to see the vid that was posted then. He's not set the pitch on fire, I totally agree but he has never got a continuous run of games for us. Forget about a continuous run. He has just started 2 games in succession this season. Considering how shit Valencia and Young have been, was it really that tough to give him games?
 
I still maintain it was the van Persie signing that fecked him. van Persie wasn't the original plan, I'd imagine Kagawa behind Rooney was.
 
adexkola said:
I really don't see the problem with forcing RVP and Rooney to pick one spot.

In 2006 RVN was probably our best striker. Yet we shunted him out and made Rooney play behind Saha, in a balanced system. Lo and behold, it worked. You don't shoehorn all the best players into one side and expect greatness. Look at the origina Galaticos in Madrid. All that talent, skill and money. They kick Makelele out and don't win another La Liga or Champions League until 2007.
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RVN had asked to leave several times and isnt Wayne Rooney so we made inroads to move ahead without him.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Naah, he got games under SAF, was never frozen out this way. And it was obvious Sir Alex rated him, what he needed was to build up physically for the league to be stronger with the ball. Moyes simply doesnt rate him.
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I blame SAF for buying RVP. Yes, I said it. We had Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck.
 
If you look at the bench, we do have Hernandez and Januzaj ready to come on.

Welbeck is also not on the bench tonight and he's had a better season than Kagawa.

I'm not sold on Moyes as United manager but Kagawa dropping down the pecking order after the signing of Mata and RVP/Rooney back is no surprise to me.
 
Maybe he's flat out racist. You never know.

On a more serious note, if DM wants more world-class players, doesn't think Kagawa is one and the Matic story is true (about SAF making a deal for him and Moyes saying no I don't need the player) then I'd give a month's salary to take a look at these so-called thousands of uber-detailed scouting reports. Something tells me they're all of players who would be within his then-budget. AKA he and his staff have NOTHING on anyone of top-club caliber. It would fit with his alleged meticulous reputation: "We've no room for error or waste. Don't even spend an ounce of energy looking at anyone we can't afford."
 
Had Fergie remained as the manager then Rooney would have been sold and Kagawa the successor, there was a clear route to an increasingly prominent role for him in that light. Alternatively in the event that Rooney remained at United i could see SAF rotating the two of them for the No 10 role, either way this farce wouldn't be the outcome.
 
Is Moyes serious? He gives shit players a chance, it's not working, but can't give Kagawa a proper run either
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Had Fergie remained as the manager then Rooney would have been sold and Kagawa the successor, there was a clear route to an increasingly prominent role for him in that light. In the event that Rooney remained at United i could see SAF rotating him and Kagawa for the No 10 role.
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I think we would have signed someone after selling Rooney, but Kagawa would have been given a fair old run to prove himself in that position at least until the replacement settles in and consistantly performs. Probably see which of the 2 players are going to be the new Rooney.
 
I repeat.

He's not started 2 games in succession this season. Not 2 games when our wingers have been in the form that Young and Valencia have been. Its incredible he cant even make the bench.
 
Ekeke said:
Than a forward who's goals won us the title? We might have played better football with a new midfielder but that doesnt mean we out-do City. They'd still have better.
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A better midfielder would improve the entire system of play, giving us a better platform to build on going forward. RVP's goals papered over the cracks of a mediocre league, which isn't mediocre anymore, shock horror.

Ok I'm done, back to weeping.
 
Escobar said:
Is Moyes serious? He gives shit players a chance, it's not working, but can't give Kagawa a proper run either
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Well obviously, he has absolutely no clue how to get proper technical players producing modern, attractive football. Hence the constant Young and Valencia 4-4-2 dross. They are the perfect players for Moyesy. 'Hard workers' who 'get the ball in the box'.
 
Ekeke said:
Than a forward who's goals won us the title? We might have played better football with a new midfielder but that doesnt mean we out-do City. They'd still have better.
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Yep, Van Persie was also brought in my opinion to help transition us while we changed managers. You can't go wrong with a top class forward.

We should brought a good midfielder last summer, instead we brought Fellaini.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I repeat.

He's not started 2 games in succession this season. Not 2 games when our wingers have been in the form that Young and Valencia have been. Its incredible he cant even make the bench.
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He has. He started Real Sociedad and Arsenal at home in a row and he started Leverkusen and then Spurs away in a row, missed Everton/Newcastle through injury and was back in the side against Shaktar after returning from injury.

There's probably more. That's just off the top of my head.
 
adexkola said:
A better midfielder would improve the entire system of play, giving us a better platform to build on going forward. RVP's goals papered over the cracks of a mediocre league, which isn't mediocre anymore, shock horror.

Ok I'm done, back to weeping.
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We'd have played better football but we'd still have needed RVP to finish off many hard chances. One player wasnt going to turn our whole buildup around (as we're finding with Mata)
 
iSparky said:
Can't believe Moyes won't play him. Doesn't even make the bench, I mean come on, how is Fellaini on the bench ahead of Kagawa?
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Because Moyes brain works in some weird way. Or because Fellaini is stronger and taller. Likely a combination of these two things.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Fair post. Far too many posters don't acknowledge Kagawa's had opportunities in the no10 role.



He has. He started Real Sociecdad and Arsenal at home in a row and he started Leverkusen and then Spurs away, missed Everton/Newcastle through injury and was back in the side against Shaktar after returning from injury.

There's probably more. That's just off the top of my head.
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Yeah like I said, I completely agreed before that he wasn't getting his oppertunities in that role. But when Rooney was injured he had a bunch of games in the hole with mixed success. Would have helped his cause getting a goal or something but he's still missing that part from his time at Dortmund... And that was the best part.
 
I don't see why Moyes thinks he's a player that he can just lost rot at home/on the bench.

If he doesn't want to play him centrally like Rooney, why not try something different like putting him in a midfield three? Put him in there with Carrick and Fletcher and it might work. It's not like he could be any worse than Cleverley.
 
At this stage, it's starting to look like stubbornness from Moyes' side. Nevermind Kagawa not starting: Januzaj is behind Valencia/Young in the pecking order too. It's like Moyes has to use at least one of Valencia and Young at all cost. Even with Mata's arrival, he's unwilling to try a fluid front 4.

Judging by Moyes' latest press conference, it really is all about "his" style at this point. He was asked if a change was necessary, and he stubbornly denied it. He may have rotated the players this season, but he's stubbornly refused to change his style and mindset. And that is going to cost us.
 
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Shane88 said:
I don't see why Moyes thinks he's a player that he can just lost rot at home/on the bench.

If he doesn't want to play him centrally like Rooney, why not try something different like putting him in a midfield three? Put him in there with Carrick and Fletcher and it might work. It's not like he could be any worse than Cleverley.
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Because he is clueless and all he know is 442 spread the ball wide and cross, any other manager would try


---------------------RVP
-----------Rooney--Mata--Kagawa
---------------Felaini--Carrick

With 3 AM's no wingers.
 
Never mind the results, it's the prospect of another decade of playing football from the stone age that has me turned against Moyes. Kagawa's situation is a microcosm of the problem that Ferguson started and Moyes has happily continued.
 
bosnian_red said:
Terrible man management really. Of all the things Moyes has messed up this season, this has to be the worst. He has a potentially fantastic player here and not only is he not giving him chances, he's ruining him and diminishing his value. You just know that next season he'll have a fantastic season and then people (Moyes) will say stuff like why couldn't he reproduce that in the premier league, when the answer is very clear that Moyes never gave him a proper chance. It was always an occasional start and sort of like unless you score a hattrick, then you're coming off at half or in the 60th minute, no matter how well you play.
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What always gets me about Moyes is he speaks about changing our style of play but rarely gives different formations or personal a chance.
 
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