Liverpool

Think that's a load of old codswallop to be fair. The football world does not revolve around how Manchester United perform on the pitch. The axis of evil perhaps but not the pivot.

How would your form dictate how Liverpool, Tottenham or indeed Everton perform against teams other than United. If you had performed to the level at which you think you should have performed and will again perform next season, then all that will have changed would be the number of teams within touching distance of the top.

Chelsea will win it with City 2nd in my opinion but 3rd is definitely up for grabs.
 
Brophs said:
I'd agree with most of that. But obviously enough, no team plays in a vacuum. Like any team, Liverpool's confidence will be buoyed when they see things going on at other clubs. But equally our confidence is going to be knocked when we see Liverpool playing so well and so consistently. The vast majority of it is down to Liverpool and the good work they've done/are doing but I don't think it's fair to entirely discount the other factors.
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Absolutely. I made the point yesterday that 'other factors' played a part in United's first title win in 26 years. Liverpool were well on the decline, along with George Graham's Arsenal no longer a title-winning threat. As much as seems hard to believe right now, but Fergie back then was not seen as anything special. So us benefiting from other external avenues isn't a concept that's unique. We have a good manager that will hopefully go on to becoming a great manager. Plus we have a good crop of youngsters coming through that will possibly help the club move forward. Manchester United's rise 20 years ago was a footballing 'perfect storm' insofar that there were a few events that all combined at pretty much the same to ensure that United simply blew everyone out of the way for quite a long time.
 
Rory 7 said:
Your 'sudden rise' to FOURTH has an awful lot to do with United's collapse allowing you, spurs and everton to battle it out for that coveted FOURTH place. Liverpool fans are gas, you're winning the race for FOURTH and of course most of you go on like you are winning the title. The reality is if United had performed at even close to last years levels there would be no battle for fourth. It would be the usual top 4. United's season is a complete anomaly, a statistical outlier, one that will be corrected next season.
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If your Auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.

The sheer arrogance of the post above is laughable. Only your poor form has allowed the other teams a race for fourth? That is comical. I think the form and general good style of Liverpools play is reaping reward. Same to an extent for Everton.
 
Rory 7 said:
Your 'sudden rise' to FOURTH has an awful lot to do with United's collapse allowing you, spurs and everton to battle it out for that coveted FOURTH place. Liverpool fans are gas, you're winning the race for FOURTH and of course most of you go on like you are winning the title. The reality is if United had performed at even close to last years levels there would be no battle for fourth. It would be the usual top 4. United's season is a complete anomaly, a statistical outlier, one that will be corrected next season.
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& you know this because ????
 
antihenry said:
As much as I hate them, Liverpool have been the team to admire this season so far. I look at their squad and still can't believe they've been doing as well as they have. Rodgers deserves credit.

Still think they may hit a tough stretch at some point.
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Everton being where they are and the way they've played is a bigger achievement than Liverpool's IMO. They're significantly weaker in terms of personnel.

Pochettino at Southampton is up there as well. His team dont have much firepower but play far better than their ability should allow them to.
 
It
Rory 7 said:
The reality is if United had performed at even close to last years levels there would be no battle for fourth. It would be the usual top 4. United's season is a complete anomaly, a statistical outlier, one that will be corrected next season.
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:lol::lol::lol:
And if we climb higher than fourth? Is that from united's demise? We fell from top four due to sugar daddy football. Took a few years to recover and contend again. Let's hope we make the top 4.
It's a nightmare isn't it
Oh, I forgot. You won't be back if players won't come, especially with your current mgr at the helm. The brand only goes so far.
Nightmare
 
Skywarden said:
Statistically our position is an anomaly. I suppose you are questioning his second statement, which is fair enough, and there are no guarantees.
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Ah now come on for years I've heard the league table doesnt lie.
 
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term. Just like when Villa,Forest,Everton etc went toe to toe with Liverpool in the 80s. Invariably it cant last.

Liverpool simply paid the best wages in the 70/80s and other clubs couldnt compete.
 
thegregster said:
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term. Just like when Villa,Forest,Everton etc went toe to toe with Liverpool in the 80s. Invariably it cant last.
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But Liverpool fell away from the success of the 80s when they went through a long period of no league wins so it's conceivable that the same could happen here.
 
Skywarden said:
Statistically our position is an anomaly. I suppose you are questioning his second statement, which is fair enough, and there are no guarantees.
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Same could be said of us finishing in 6th place back in 1992 just 15 months after our successful manager resigned. He quit whilst we were league champions & top of the table at the time. & we most certainly found afterwards that there are no guarantees in football. There is only hope.
 
I still think the league is a straight fight between Chelsea and City. Both will pull away in the next few months. I'm quite worried about Liverpool defensively but as some have mentioned players are due back. Still been a great year though. Credit to Rogers.
 
Tbf, it's stupid to claim that we'll finish in top 4 next season because statistically wise this season is an anomaly.
thegregster said:
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term. Just like when Villa,Forest,Everton etc went toe to toe with Liverpool in the 80s. Invariably it cant last.

Liverpool simply paid the best wages in the 70/80s and other clubs couldnt compete.
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I'm afraid it's not that simple. The revenue isn't guaranteed and fixed and our debt is huge.
 
Treble said:
Tbf, it's stupid to claim that we'll finish in top 4 next season because statistically wise this season is an anomaly.


I'm afraid it's not that simple. The revenue isn't guaranteed and fixed and our debt is huge.
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Liverpool are currently spending more than their revenue on wages and transfers. Thankfully they arent wise enough to build a new stadium. Its a short term view they have.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Everton being where they are and the way they've played is a bigger achievement than Liverpool's IMO. They're significantly weaker in terms of personnel.

Pochettino at Southampton is up there as well. His team dont have much firepower but play far better than their ability should allow them to.
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I disagree there. The comparative improvement from the previous season points tally tells its own story. Id say Everton arent too many points better off now than at this time last season whereas Liverpool definitely are.
 
thegregster said:
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term. Just like when Villa,Forest,Everton etc went toe to toe with Liverpool in the 80s. Invariably it cant last.

Liverpool simply paid the best wages in the 70/80s and other clubs couldnt compete.
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United have always been rich correct? So what happened in the decades leading up to fergies years. Why were you a non factor then?
Look, unless some Sheik comes a looking, you're going to have to get it back by being smart in the transfer market and by getting rid of Moyes. Could be a few years
 
thegregster said:
Liverpool are currently spending more than their revenue on wages and transfers. Thankfully they arent wise enough to build a new stadium. Its a short term view they have.
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We're in the process of it. At least know what you're talking about before spouting shite.
 
thegregster said:
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term. Just like when Villa,Forest,Everton etc went toe to toe with Liverpool in the 80s. Invariably it cant last.

Liverpool simply paid the best wages in the 70/80s and other clubs couldnt compete.
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It had nothing to do with wages mate. People wanted to sign for us for footballing reasons. Money played very little part in determining a club's success. It was a much more level playing field back then, & that's why a club like Forest could come straight up from the old 2nd division & win the title the following year. & just so you know, Manchester United outspent Liverpool during the 70's & 80's, just in the same way we've probably spent more than you over the past 15-20 years. So coming with the old 'loadsamoney' stuff means very little really. Throwing cash at the 'problem' isn't always the answer (see Leeds United). Besides, you're always going to be competing with the richer clubs when it comes to top players, so your revenue will mean very little. Even less if you're not playing in the CL.
 
njred said:
United have always been rich correct? So what happened in the decades leading up to fergies years. Why were you a non factor then?
Look, unless some Sheik comes a looking, you're going to have to get it back by being smart in the transfer market and by getting rid of Moyes. Could be a few years
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United havent always been rich.

Liverpool were owned by the wealthiest family in the UK-they owned Littlewoods pools. Then the national lottery came along and they weren't so rich.
 
thegregster said:
Our revenue is twice that of liverpool. They cant compete with us long term ....
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Define 'long term'.

You're stuck with Moyes as manager, will lose out on CL revenue and prestige next season, and face a massive rebuild in the summer with many players departing, very possibly including Rooney and/or RvP.

The ways things are shaping up you could easily miss out on CL money for several seasons to come, which would obviously have major knock-on effects in terms of sponsorship deals.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Define 'long term'.

You're stuck with Moyes as manager, will lose out on CL revenue and prestige next season, and face a massive rebuild in the summer with many players departing, very possibly including Rooney and/or RvP.

The ways things are shaping up you could easily miss out on CL money for several seasons to come, which would obviously have major knock-on effects in terms of sponsorship deals.
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Dream on if you honestly believe United won't bounce back from this.
 
Stick said:
If your Auntie had balls she'd be your uncle.

The sheer arrogance of the post above is laughable. Only your poor form has allowed the other teams a race for fourth? That is comical. I think the form and general good style of Liverpools play is reaping reward. Same to an extent for Everton.
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Laugh all you want la. The fact is the once 'mighty' Pool now consider FOURTH place an achievement. Whereas most of us on here will only be happy with United challenging for top spot. So much so that I want us to finish 7th or 8th and avoid that Europa League shite. Call it arrogance if you like, I admit it, am arrogant about my expectation for Manchester United. 2nd, 3rd or 4th place would have been disappointing for us for the last 20 years. It would still be dissappointing under any new manager. Enjoy your race for FOURTH. Coz next year normal service will be resumed.
 
retardman5 said:
Same could be said of us finishing in 6th place back in 1992 just 15 months after our successful manager resigned. He quit whilst we were league champions & top of the table at the time. & we most certainly found afterwards that there are no guarantees in football. There is only hope.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone has questioned that, statistically speaking?

One thing that's going to be interesting to see is the players you'll attract with Champions League football and more money to throw around. You already have a good system in place which is more than what we've managed.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
Dream on if you honestly believe United won't bounce back from this.
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Nothing is cut and dried of course, but I do think there's a very significant chance you'll be out of the top 4 for at least the next couple of seasons after this one.
 
M'n'M said:
Think that's a load of old codswallop to be fair. The football world does not revolve around how Manchester United perform on the pitch. The axis of evil perhaps but not the pivot.

How would your form dictate how Liverpool, Tottenham or indeed Everton perform against teams other than United. If you had performed to the level at which you think you should have performed and will again perform next season, then all that will have changed would be the number of teams within touching distance of the top.

Chelsea will win it with City 2nd in my opinion but 3rd is definitely up for grabs.
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Right so you don't think United's form this year is out of step with all statistical trends for the last 25 years? Ok. That's a pretty rational position to take. Fact are facts lad. Its no coinicidence that our collapse in points tally has resulted in the usual top 7/8 concertinaning somewhat. And now we have Spur and Pool battling for FOURTH. I couldn't give a toss in truth. Because a club the size of United will not be allowed stay off the top for very long. The normal top 4 is only another season away. Just wait and see. And feel free to revive this thread if I'm wrong.
 
Bloody hell, this thread has kicked off. Scousers running wild here.

I've praised your manager and club several times lately, But chill out, they've not won fecking anything yet.

If Stevie G wins a league soon bless him he'll only have another 12 to go to match Giggsy.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Define 'long term'.

You're stuck with Moyes as manager, will lose out on CL revenue and prestige next season, and face a massive rebuild in the summer with many players departing, very possibly including Rooney and/or RvP.

The ways things are shaping up you could easily miss out on CL money for several seasons to come, which would obviously have major knock-on effects in terms of sponsorship deals.
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Do you not think that Everton could have pushed on and still be ahead of Liverpool if their were given the wage capacity and transfer funds of liverpool? Liverpool can spend double the wages and millions more on transfers.

Everton have had a net spend of -18mil the last two seasons. Liverpool have had a net spend of 61mil.

So in the end its pretty much impossible for Everton to compete with that long term. Eventually the gap in spending and wages will show.
 
I'm happy to put my neck on the line and say there isn't the slimmest of chances that Liverpool will win the league. Their defence isn't remotely good enough for a title winning side and only the heroics of some of the forward players are raising them to top four standard.

What I would say is that it can't be understated how good a job Rodgers has done. Kept Suarez, who is now the best player in the country, reinvented Gerrard and likely added a couple of years on to his career, got the best out of Sturridge who is now a goal machine and squeezed the absolute most out of a squad that most deemed to be some way off Champions League standard. The likes of Henderson, Coutinho and Sterling now look very promising young players again, while Toure and Skrtel were written off by most but they've all had good seasons too. Rodgers is the best British manager around now that Fergie is gone.
 
Rory 7 said:
Laugh all you want la. The fact is the once 'mighty' Pool now consider FOURTH place an achievement. Whereas most of us on here will only be happy with United challenging for top spot. So much so that I want us to finish 7th or 8th and avoid that Europa League shite. Call it arrogance if you like, I admit it, am arrogant about my expectation for Manchester United. 2nd, 3rd or 4th place would have been disappointing for us for the last 20 years. It would still be dissappointing under any new manager. Enjoy your race for FOURTH. Coz next year normal service will be resumed.
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I didn't laugh at your laughable statement. I pointed out that it was laughable. I'll be very happy with a top four finish this year should it come about because Liverpool have been floundering a bit in recent years. I certainly won't celebrate it like I would a title win but I'll be very happy with it. It is very arrogant to expect your team to be constantly at the top but keep bashing that drum. No need to use upper case letters for emphasis either. I GET IT!!
 
Thisistheone said:
Bloody hell, this thread has kicked off. Scousers running wild here.

I've praised your manager and club several times lately, But chill out, they've not won fecking anything yet.

If Stevie G wins a league soon bless him he'll only have another 12 to go to match Giggsy.
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mufcwarm92 said:
I'm happy to put my neck on the line and say there isn't the slimmest of chances that Liverpool will win the league. Their defence isn't remotely good enough for a title winning side and only the heroics of some of the forward players are raising them to top four standard.

What I would say is that it can't be understated how good a job Rodgers has done. Kept Suarez, who is now the best player in the country, reinvented Gerrard and likely added a couple of years on to his career, got the best out of Sturridge who is now a goal machine and squeezed the absolute most out of a squad that most deemed to be some way off Champions League standard. The likes of Henderson, Coutinho and Sterling now look very promising young players again, while Toure and Skrtel were written off by most but they've all had good seasons too. Rodgers is the best British manager around now that Fergie is gone.
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How many liverpool fans on here have said that Liverpool will win the league?
 
Rory 7 said:
Laugh all you want la. The fact is the once 'mighty' Pool now consider FOURTH place an achievement. Whereas most of us on here will only be happy with United challenging for top spot. So much so that I want us to finish 7th or 8th and avoid that Europa League shite. Call it arrogance if you like, I admit it, am arrogant about my expectation for Manchester United. 2nd, 3rd or 4th place would have been disappointing for us for the last 20 years. It would still be dissappointing under any new manager. Enjoy your race for FOURTH. Coz next year normal service will be resumed.
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Er, this forum has a 34 page thread on whether or not you'll be getting fourth. You've been clamouring for it all year.
 
Stick said:
I didn't laugh at your laughable statement. I pointed out that it was laughable. I'll be very happy with a top four finish this year should it come about because Liverpool have been floundering a bit in recent years. I certainly won't celebrate it like I would a title win but I'll be very happy with it. It is very arrogant to expect your team to be constantly at the top but keep bashing that drum. No need to use upper case letters for emphasis either. I GET IT!!
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GOOD. I'M GLAD YOU GET FOURTH IS THE LIMIT OF LIVERPOOL'S AMBITIONS. THE RED SIDE OF MANCHESTER WILL STAY AS ARROGANT AS EVER UNTIL WE GET BACK TO THE TOP.
 
Thisistheone said:
Bloody hell, this thread has kicked off. Scousers running wild here.

I've praised your manager and club several times lately, But chill out, they've not won fecking anything yet.

If Stevie G wins a league soon bless him he'll only have another 12 to go to match Giggsy.
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Eh? It's Rory running around chatting shite and several posters countering him.
 
thegregster said:
Do you not think that Everton could have pushed on and still be ahead of Liverpool if their were given the wage capacity and transfer funds of liverpool? Liverpool can spend double the wages and millions more on transfers.

Everton have had a net spend of -18mil the last two seasons. Liverpool have had a net spend of 61mil.

So in the end its pretty much impossible for Everton to compete with that long term. Eventually the gap in spending and wages will show.
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You're comparing Man. Utd's spending power over Liverpool, to Liverpool's spending power over Everton .... is that a fair comparison?

You also say, "eventually the gap in spending and wages will show". Well, "eventually" can end up being a long time away: you've already spent £82m NET on additions to the squad that won the title last season, but have declined massively.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Eh? It's Rory running around chatting shite and several posters countering him.
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He made a post and suddenly there seemed to be about half a dozen scousers jumping all over him.

Feels like there are dippers everywhere :nervous::lol: Taking over the caf!

Flirting with a title challenge has brought this on. Imagine if you won a league, and then imagine if you started to dominate to the extent Utd did under Fergie...
 
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