Shinji Kagawa

[Sarni]

Yeah, not starting Kagawa was a very strange decision. He's shown himself to be far more suited to CL than PL football over the last couple of seasons and was one of our best players in the group stages. I'm still hoping he'll become a more influential player domestically but not making use of his obvious preference for continental football is a real waste.

True. In the league he's been very hit and miss, I remember he was very good in his debut against Everton but couldn't carry the same performances throughout the entire season.

In the CL he's been invariably good. The only time he didn't look all that much was against Real Madrid last season but he still contributed positively.

It's not really that he refused to play Kagawa that pisses me off. It's the fact that we had two players who have hardly contributed anything positive this season on both wings.

 

[Cina]

Strange is putting it mildly, it was an awful decision, especially given who played ahead of him.

 

[LR7]

In that video, look at 1:05. Pass and move and make a space. Kagawa is literally the only player on the pitch moving around. The rest are standing still, far away from the ball. Depressing.

Also, you look at Young only focusing on the ball at his feet and not at who's available to receive the ball on the pitch, and you start to understand why our crossing doesn't work. He's literally swinging a cross blindly.

Yeah, I've noticed it so many times when Mata is on the ball. People just standing around, still, far away, looking to see what he's going to do next, rather than moving into space to make themselves available for him and provide him with an option. It's so annoying. It's a basic thing as well, not something highly technical and difficult that they might struggle with.

 

[Empire]

I knew I wasn't seeing things when I saw Kagawa in space time and again and never getting the ball.. this is embarrassing.

Do the coaches of United not teach Ashley Young to look up, find a man and target him with his cross?

 

[Empire]

Someone tweet RVP with the video, the players will revolt if they haven't already. Tweet every United player actually and ask, is this what we practice in training?

It's about time that video goes viral as it shows either the problems our coaching staff have imposed on our team or quite possibly problems left by Ferguson that they have failed to address.

It's simple, don't play Ashley Young until he can consistently find players with his crosses. Furthermore, Moyes should have identified the better players and coached players to look for the short pass and then move but clearly he is content with the futile long balls and crosses.

I would love a journalist to give Moyes a USB stick with the video on and ask him do you have a preference for long balls and crosses or short, quick pass and move training drills?

 

[kouroux]

Do the coaches of United not teach Ashley Young to look up, find a man and target him with his cross?

They're probably taught to play percentages and aim for certain areas of the penalty box. This crazily doesn't really take the target's position into account.

 

[Kaos]

They're probably taught to play percentages and aim for certain areas of the penalty box. This crazily doesn't really take the target's position into account.

No! L1+square and hope for the best.

 

[Sixpence]

Some interesting footage of both Kagawa's impressive substitute appearance as well as why he, and the rest of us, must be frustrated with a lot of our play.

That's the worst thing I've ever seen. And not just in football. Dinosaur football.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They're probably taught to play percentages and aim for certain areas of the penalty box. This crazily doesn't really take the target's position into account.

Come on, koroux. You play football. There's nothing wrong with putting crosses into dangerous areas without aiming for a specific individual. Of course, if the cross doesn't end up in these dangerous areas it's a poor one regardless.

I'm actually getting a bit bored of being perceived as constantly defending Moyes but, for some reason, I keep getting sucked in when I see unfair criticisms. The whole "always looking at the ball thing" is one of them. Young will have made his mind up where to cross the ball before he beats that last man. There's nothing wrong with staying focussed on the ball right up until he hits the cross. If anything that's good technique.

 

[LR7]

Our whole ethos this season has been around playing low percentage, early aerial crosses rather than lifting your head up and picking someone out. Young will never know a teammate wasn't running into space on the edge of the box where he could play him in with a well placed cut-back because he doesn't look and it's not a one off with Ashley Young.

 

[girish]

What are you defending Pogue? Ofcourse There's nothing wrong with aiming fora dangerous area in the box. However, have you seen the way we cross? Dwindling on the ball a bit too long on by the side, trying to release the ball to a player making an overlapping run, and finally a somebody crosses it to the box, where it's too crowded. It's pretty much the same for a long time.

And a player on the wing 'always looking at the ball' is only going to do one thing: try and cross the ball. And when they're pathetic at it, the end result always is a blocked cross or bad one. I know you're defending that technique, but the substandard player like Young and Seriously out for form Valencia make it look like schoolyard football.

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

Ok, I watched that Kagawa video yesterday. Got a good nights sleep, yet woke up angrier than I was yesterday. Especially at Young. I didn't know I cared that much!

 

[Red Shorts]

The video did make me laugh when it specifically pointed out Young's inane ability not to look where he was crossing, but instead just looked only at the ball like you do when you're 10 years old playing football. Criminal how he and Valencia are getting starts over Kagawa.

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

Yes it boggles the mind. You'll find that most other players don't have their eyes glued on the ball, because the have been playing football most of their lives, and kind of know what the ball does in any given circumstance. Heck I saw a guy once put away crosses in the dark!

 

[kouroux]

Come on, koroux. You play football. There's nothing wrong with putting crosses into dangerous areas without aiming for a specific individual. Of course, if the cross doesn't end up in these dangerous areas it's a poor one regardless.

I'm actually getting a bit bored of being perceived as constantly defending Moyes but, for some reason, I keep getting sucked in when I see unfair criticisms. The whole "always looking at the ball thing" is one of them. Young will have made his mind up where to cross the ball before he beats that last man. There's nothing wrong with staying focussed on the ball right up until he hits the cross. If anything that's good technique.

I was exaggerating a little but still in order to play a percentage game with higher percentage of success, we have to have players who are up for the aerial battle. We need our strikers to be great and courageous in the air and we need better support from midfield with runs. We have neither therefore our percentage is just basically useless. We can't play percentage football because
1) You can't ask RVP/Rooney to play like Drogba as they're fundamentally different players
2) the crosses delivered inside the box are of poorer quality this season than last season ( I'm not among the ones who forgot that we still played with plenty of crosses under SAF°)
3) The midfield (wingers included) don't support the attack well (the amount of goals score from our midfielders is ridiculously low).

 

[KanieKaned]

That video is seriously depressing to watch.

 

[LR7]

That video is seriously depressing to watch.

Especially when you couple it with Kagawa's post match comments.

 

[marjen]

I'm with Pogue on the video. It really doesn't tell us anything we didn't know, I.E. we're lacking in movement, prefer to take the easy way out and doesn't play through the middle.

All of the above suggests that the players lack confidence and that Moyes isn't able to get the team playing varied, fluid attacking football.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I was exaggerating a little but still in order to play a percentage game with higher percentage of success, we have to have players who are up for the aerial battle. We need our strikers to be great and courageous in the air and we need better support from midfield with runs. We have neither therefore our percentage is just basically useless. We can't play percentage football because
1) You can't ask RVP/Rooney to play like Drogba as they're fundamentally different players
2) the crosses delivered inside the box are of poorer quality this season than last season ( I'm not among the ones who forgot that we still played with plenty of crosses under SAF°)
3) The midfield (wingers included) don't support the attack well (the amount of goals score from our midfielders is ridiculously low).

Agree completely with 1)-3)

 

[Adebesi]

we had two players who have hardly contributed anything positive this season on both wings.

As much as I agree with the spirit of this I think it is a little unfair on Young, who I think has offered us glimpses of positivity this season, more than Valencia, and in this particular game as well. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt have started him, I have complained as much as the next man that we bought him, that he isnt what we need etc. But I think he has been better than Valencia and offered us more variety in attack. There was a nice little reverse pass to RVP in particular that showed he was at least looking for the right kind of passes. I often fall into the trap of lumping these two together this season but I dont think it is really fair, Young has a lot more to offer going through the middle.

 

[Sarni]

As much as I agree with the spirit of this I think it is a little unfair on Young, who I think has offered us glimpses of positivity this season, more than Valencia, and in this particular game as well. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt have started him, I have complained as much as the next man that we bought him, that he isnt what we need etc. But I think he has been better than Valencia and offered us more variety in attack. There was a nice little reverse pass to RVP in particular that showed he was at least looking for the right kind of passes. I often fall into the trap of lumping these two together this season but I dont think it is really fair, Young has a lot more to offer going through the middle.

Yeah, Young has been all right by his standards which should still not merit a starting place in the most important game of the season ahead of Kagawa and Januzaj.

Young has been immense compared to Valencia who has looked like a League Two footballer at times.

 

[Ekeke]

Young has played well by his own and sometimes his teammates standards. But even Ashley Young playing well looks like a Spurs or Everton winger.

 

[Mad Winger]

Not strong enough for the PL? Yeah right!

 

[hungrywing]

Those 'samurai' are all 5 foot 2. And again, the problem isn't that he isn't strong enough. The problem is that opposition players will literally just foul and expect the refs not to call it.

That's a crackpot theory. Whatever you think of them as players I'm sure both want to see the team win. If just playing was their concern they could do that at a number of sides.

whoooshjokeoverhead.gif

But understandable seeing as I never use smilies.

 

[acnumber9]

Those 'samurai' are all 5 foot 2. And again, the problem isn't that he isn't strong enough. The problem is that opposition players will literally just foul and expect the refs not to call it.



whoooshjokeoverhead.gif

But understandable seeing as I never use smilies.

I must have missed the memo that jokes no longer held any semblance of humour. I'll need to get on that.

 

[limerickcitykid]

As many have said, it may not have been spectacular or flashy, but he was decent and effective.

Kagawa's work was, pretty much, unnoticed, particularly on the left wing, as people expect wingers to provide flair and the ability to beat a man with individual skill, something Kagawa cannot do. Instead, he beats his man through the pass-and-move game and is best when ghosting past defenders into spaces and playing quick passes through/go for goal.

As Sir Alex highlighted, the first season showed promise that Kagawa will become a great player, here. However, Moyes is now here, and with his more defensive setups, Kagawa cannot be influential, anymore.

That is my point though he looked decent and had some good link-up play but he wasn't great. It is just this constant saying that any competent manager would get the best out of him when I think it is quite clear that Fergie didn't have him playing at Dortmund levels either. He had him out left and hugging the touchline at times. Is Fergie not competent?

This goes unnoticed is just another excuse to me too. Like Scholes? I'm sorry but he has't been anywhere near Scholes level, going unnoticed or not. He has ability and certainly should play more but he is excused too much. Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Ozil have had to play wide and all looked top class. Kagawa has looked good but not top class like them. I'm sorry but he hasn't done near enough to justify setting up the whole team around him. Mata? Yes, do everything to suit him but Kagawa I don't think so.

I'm not having this replace Rooney either. Rooney was meant to be poor last season but still got 12 goals and 10 assists in the league. That doesn't take in the drive and inspiration that Rooney gives the team either. When we need it big Rooney is often the one driving us on. Kagawa's decent passing and link-up has never shown to be so good that it is enough to replace Rooney.

 

[Red Shorts]

No wonder Moyes is not playing him, he's getting pissed in his spare time!

 

[Hound Dog]

Watching this video makes me wonder what Moyes would have done with Fabregas, had he managed to sign him.

I also think that I now understand his long term plans for Fellaini.

 

[Jev]

Yeah, I've noticed it so many times when Mata is on the ball. People just standing around, still, far away, looking to see what he's going to do next, rather than moving into space to make themselves available for him and provide him with an option. It's so annoying. It's a basic thing as well, not something highly technical and difficult that they might struggle with.

And it's a testament to how useless a manager Moyes really is. How can you look at that week after week and not be trying to change it?

 

[LR7]

And it's a testament to how useless a manager Moyes really is. How can you look at that week after week and not be trying to change it?

More annoying when you have Everton players like Pienaar saying things like this:

"The only demand the manager makes of us is to go out and dominate a game.

"It takes a lot of hard work and courage but the basic idea is that, if you can keep the ball, you are not working as hard as the other team. Keeping hold of the ball is not just about passing, it is about moving to find space and provide options, so you have to be fit. The work ethic of the team is unbelievable, though, and the manager is always relaxed. He never really gets angry, just more positive. Thinking about it, he might just be the most positive person I've ever come across; he's definitely up there.

"We beat Fulham 4-1 the other day and he was annoyed because some of the players hadn't looked like they were enjoying themselves. Winning is not enough, he wants us to win with a smile on our face."

Martinez might not have affected their league position majorly this season but he's definitely got them playing better football with a better mentality about the team. If Everton, with inferior players than ours, and the likes of Southampton and Swansea can all display good off the ball movement there's no reason we can't and it's nothing to do with confidence imo.

 

[hungrywing]

I must have missed the memo that jokes no longer held any semblance of humour. I'll need to get on that.

The gentleman who was responded to seemed to get it just fine. I tried to be nice earlier so I'll try one more time. Did you miss the white text?

Actually, scratch that. The other fellow got a chuckle out of it. Purpose served.

 

[Antisocial]

I hope he and Mata get some time on the pitch together before Kagawa's seemingly inevitable departure in the summer - some combination of them, Januzaj, RVP and/or Rooney might actually produce something decent if accidental deployed together.

 

[LR7]

I hope he and Mata get some time on the pitch together before Kagawa's seemingly inevitable departure in the summer - some combination of them, Januzaj, RVP and/or Rooney might actually produce something decent if accidental deployed together.

It'd be nice but I'd be willing to bet they won't play a single game together because it seems Moyes wants one player who will stay wide and that seems to go against Kagawa and Mata's natural instincts. Even when Januzaj and Mata started the Palace game together, Adnan seemed to be playing nearer the touchline for most of the game.

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

That Kagawa quote reads too much like what most people here would say. I doubt it's a real quote, I can't imagine him criticizing the tactics publicly like that even though I would love it if he did

Why would you "love it?" That's pretty much him throwing in the towel there. He had two decent games back to back, was looking like he was going to put it together and then he's benched and now using language that is spot on and pretty sad to hear. If players begin openly criticizing tactics, we're going to reach a new low. And there's no telling who the owners and board support.

 

[17Larsson]

Why would you "love it?" That's pretty much him throwing in the towel there. He had two decent games back to back, was looking like he was going to put it together and then he's benched and now using language that is spot on and pretty sad to hear. If players begin openly criticizing tactics, we're going to reach a new low. And there's no telling who the owners and board support.

After watching United this season I'm just relieved to hear a player say what we've all been saying for a while. It's nice to know that at least one player can see what the problem is. It's also incredibly depressing

 

[Nights]

More annoying when you have Everton players like Pienaar saying things like this:

Martinez might not have affected their league position majorly this season but he's definitely got them playing better football with a better mentality about the team. If Everton, with inferior players than ours, and the likes of Southampton and Swansea can all display good off the ball movement there's no reason we can't and it's nothing to do with confidence imo.

It kind of reinforces what other Everton players have said since the change in managers. That Martinez focuses more on them, building them up, telling them to believe in their own system, that they're good enough to overcome the opposition rather than always focusing on the opponents and negating their opposition's strengths.

 

[bosnian_red]

Why would you "love it?" That's pretty much him throwing in the towel there. He had two decent games back to back, was looking like he was going to put it together and then he's benched and now using language that is spot on and pretty sad to hear. If players begin openly criticizing tactics, we're going to reach a new low. And there's no telling who the owners and board support.

Probably because once the players start going out in public, especially if its the popular opinion between them, it gets to the point where the manager just has to go. If it was 1 or 2 players only not happy with the manager, then depending on the players the board would be willing to get rid. However, you can only get rid of so many players before you question whether it is them or the manager. I have a feeling that the majority are unhappy with Moyes, and that majority being our talented players, not the ones that most United fans generally dislike like Valencia, Young or Cleverley because they're getting more football then they would under anyone else.

What do you think would happen if RVP, Kagawa, Hernandez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Rafael, Carrick, Nani all came out with little digs at the manager in public, with nobody coming out backing him? Would they all be sold, or would it represent the general opinion in the dressing room, and the end of Moyes.

 

[Danny1982]

 

[Sphaero]

That video basically adds nothing informational to the current situation of Kagawa. Not that I expected anything different because I have only extremely rarely seen Honigstein bringing up something of substance and how this guy ever got a job as "Bundesliga expert" is still a mystery to me.

Saying that Kagawa´s lackluster performances are simply because most players are underperforming under Moyes is way too general, because in this case they are more important specific tactical, systematical and personal issues. Some of the things he spouted were also simply false. We bought him for 350k Euro, not Pounds and Klopp never made specific claims in the causa Sahin, that was CEO Watzke.

There is some truth regarding a possible return of the Japanese to Dortmund, though. We don´t have an absolute need for him given that there won´t be an offensive midfielder, who is likely going to leave us in the Summer. He would give us some amazing depth in the CAM position and an additional dimension to our play, but would ultimatively be a luxury buy, which is also why we won´t reach deep into our pockets for him.

It is still not impossible, though. Kuba´s heavy knee injury and the possibility of moving Aubameyang up the pitch could open up some space in the offensive midfield for Kagawa. It all depends on the details of such a move. For the named 5 Mil Pounds we would snatch him up without a second thought, but he won´t be that cheap.

 

[Mad Winger]

Arrgh, it annoys me how even football "experts" say that Kagawa wasn't given any time under Fergie! It's like they completely ignore the fact that he was injured for 3 months, plus a couple of other times. When he was 100% match fit, he started roughly 75% of the time, and whenever Rooney or RVP was out, he was the first name on the sheet for the AM position. I don't think anyone could have expected Kagawa to get more trust than that. Hell, I'm his biggest fan and I didn't expect him to get this much trust.

The myth that Kagawa wasn't given any time or trust under Fergie, needs to die. Blatant lies like this make Moyes seem like less of a clown.

Kagawa 2012-2013 = Good stats, lots of playtime, lots of trust, lots of hard work, and the most entertaining player to watch(apart from RVP). Not a single player this season or last could have a more entertaining compilation than this(exepct for RVP).