not good enough in matches where we're being pressed...which nowadays is every match.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He should get praise for playing well not what other players happen to do when he's on the pitch. This place is barmy.
He had simple touches and stretching runs for third. Was available throughout the move including for Welbeck if West Brom had made it harder for him.
He can conduct our play through the middle if he gets the chance.
He can conduct our play through the middle if he gets the chance.
That's the key to it for me. Any time he has had a good game the opponents have totally backed off and in the PL it just doesn't happen often.
But he didn't have simple touches. He got the ball in good attacking positions twice. Once he lobbed the ball straight to the keeper with no United players in site, the next time he did a little one touch passing sequence with Rooney before passing it to no-one in particular once he got the ball back. Can he do nice little touches? Yes. Is that contributing into anything worthwhile? Not at the moment.
Same people bump it when he plays well. And excuse him when he plays badly. Same people bump it when he plays badly. And insist on undermining his good performances or ignoring his excuses. Same old same old.
This thread's like the Valencia thread. Only with a good player.
This thread's like the Valencia thread. Only with a good player.
And somebody brings it back to a player that didn't play in the game. The circle is now complete.
/
He touched the ball several times in the build up and took runners. Were you watching?
No one is saying it did all himself but he was involved because it took the ball and passed it in the move, and made several clever runs.
I'll have to see it again. Admittedly I was watching it on a crappy stream but I had all the important work as down from Rooney/Felliani/Welbeck.
Well you may have to wait for the youtube clips but I can assure you he did have several simple touches and good runs.
Good little cameo.
You won't need to because that's what happened.
Good little sub appearance for him. For all the people criticizing him, when was the last time he actually played poorly? Was good against olympiacos, and amongst our best players vs Sunderland and Swansea. He's not played much but he deserves to play a lot more, and he just effortlessly slides into a team containing mata, Rooney, and everyone else, whereas the shit wingers look so out of place every time. He's also good defensively, so there's no reason for him not to play more.
Hope he starts vs Liverpool, although I doubt it'll happen.
Hope he starts vs Liverpool, although I doubt it'll happen.
He's almost identical to young scholes in his play. Perhaps trying him in midfield wouldn't be the worst thing we've ever done.
He had 4 passes in the sequence leading to the goal.
And I'm not sure when he went over 500 minutes without creating a goal scoring chance. Creating play requires your players to actually finish the move off not to mention assists only count the final pass - there's that video that's demonstrated how many sitters have been missed off his passes. I remember when some ppl on the caf claimed Modric at Tottenham was a shit player because he had so few assists and goals yet in actual fact he was instrumental in setting up the rhythm of the teams passing and was the base of a lot of their attacking moves despite his stats looking shite.
No one is saying he should be an automatic selection but it's not as if the other players who have had many more starts than him have exactly set the world alight. He actually appears to have a good understanding when he plays with Rooney which is actually a lot more than can be said when Rooney plays with RVP hence some people wanting him to have chance in the attacking four with him/mata/januzaj/welbeck rotating behind Rooney/Rvp.
It was the game before he set up Smalling with an open net and Smalling missed. Before that game he'd been awful for a while.
I just don't see it with him anytime he puts on a United shirt at all
I don't like to debate it much on here simply because people just don't value the little things, the simple things, the foundation.
I will say this, he accelerated to the box and then didn't receive the ball, historically this season our players when doing that then just wait, hovering around that space, waiting for the long pass. Kagawa ran all the way back to the half way line to offer the short option.
You can't honestly tell me Kagawa wasn't vital to the move, you cannot deny if it weren't for Kagawa then Mata wouldn't have had the opportunity to pick out Rooney, Rooney would not have had the opportunity to play a perfectly weighted pass and nor would Welbeck have the opportunity to finish that move off.
We all know had Kagawa not come back deep to offer a passing option that move would have been wasted, had he stayed up top then somebody would have tried to pick him out losing possession. He blatantly made himself available for a short pass negating the need to play it long. The very thing that is praised for in Scholes as being one of his best attributes in making moves flow and tick, this very thing in Kagawa is seen as nothing special. It might be simple but when so few players actually do it then it is important we have such players available.
Kagawa has certain traits and they lend well to maintaining possession, offering the short pass and making simple passes that allow a team to get a move flowing. I don't care whether he is the guy who does it in our team or whether we sell him and buy somebody else who does. Mata has had the opportunity but his skills seem to be elsewhere, not so much getting a move flowing but playing those dangerous passes in the final third. He didn't keep moving offering the simple short pass option to everybody else. Mata is dangerous too but it's different skillsets.
Scholes did this and so I see nothing wrong with selling Kagawa if we sign a central midfielder that will do this or another wide player or number 10 that will do this but we need it, right now too many futile long passes are played so we need at least one player who is in a state of continuos motion off the ball offering that simple short pass option around the half way line and in our own half to keep a move flowing and prevent the need for the long ball.
He hardly did anything but I tell you what, had players been making themselves available for a simple pass like Kagawa all season then we wouldn't be complaining about crosses and long balls that go no where. The latter have not arisen due to the manager's desire but a lack of consistent options that were better.
I just see hypocrisy here where people want more off the ball motion and a simple, quick passing game yet they also want Kagawa gone.
My post is directed to those that say things like:
Imagine De Gea makes a great save, and then we counter and score after many different passes. Had De Gea not made that save we would not have scored that goal, we need to stop thinking about football in terms of the end of the move but in totality.
It was refreshing to see Kagawa not wait for the ball up top when he accelerated there but instead come back and continually offer a simple pass option. This has been lacking in our team, even Rooney if he drops back will just then play it long.
I'm not even a Kagawa fan boy, I just appreciate the little things in football because they are so important. The things like keeping the ball, playing a simple pass and offering options through off the ball motion. That's what Kagawa did and because of it we had the opportunity to get a move flowing. You are right, others were vital in taking that opportunity further up the field but before an opportunity is taken it must first be created.
Those that don't rate Kagawa's role in the goal are like those that think Gerrard in his prime was better than Scholes when he dropped back a bit. I'm sure you understand I'm referring to how Gerrard appears to do better things but the fundamentals by Scholes are just more important. Gerrard was always there involved in the end of the move but by controlling the team's flow and offering options to keep a move alive, Scholes was more so the creator.
I will say this, he accelerated to the box and then didn't receive the ball, historically this season our players when doing that then just wait, hovering around that space, waiting for the long pass. Kagawa ran all the way back to the half way line to offer the short option.
- Mata's decision making was vital in that goal. And more skilful than what Kagawa did.
- Rooney's pass was vital with the perfect weight. And more skilful than what Kagawa did.
- Welbeck's finish was excellent. And more skilful than what Kagawa did.
You can't honestly tell me Kagawa wasn't vital to the move, you cannot deny if it weren't for Kagawa then Mata wouldn't have had the opportunity to pick out Rooney, Rooney would not have had the opportunity to play a perfectly weighted pass and nor would Welbeck have the opportunity to finish that move off.
We all know had Kagawa not come back deep to offer a passing option that move would have been wasted, had he stayed up top then somebody would have tried to pick him out losing possession. He blatantly made himself available for a short pass negating the need to play it long. The very thing that is praised for in Scholes as being one of his best attributes in making moves flow and tick, this very thing in Kagawa is seen as nothing special. It might be simple but when so few players actually do it then it is important we have such players available.
Kagawa has certain traits and they lend well to maintaining possession, offering the short pass and making simple passes that allow a team to get a move flowing. I don't care whether he is the guy who does it in our team or whether we sell him and buy somebody else who does. Mata has had the opportunity but his skills seem to be elsewhere, not so much getting a move flowing but playing those dangerous passes in the final third. He didn't keep moving offering the simple short pass option to everybody else. Mata is dangerous too but it's different skillsets.
Scholes did this and so I see nothing wrong with selling Kagawa if we sign a central midfielder that will do this or another wide player or number 10 that will do this but we need it, right now too many futile long passes are played so we need at least one player who is in a state of continuos motion off the ball offering that simple short pass option around the half way line and in our own half to keep a move flowing and prevent the need for the long ball.
He hardly did anything but I tell you what, had players been making themselves available for a simple pass like Kagawa all season then we wouldn't be complaining about crosses and long balls that go no where. The latter have not arisen due to the manager's desire but a lack of consistent options that were better.
I just see hypocrisy here where people want more off the ball motion and a simple, quick passing game yet they also want Kagawa gone.
My post is directed to those that say things like:
Imagine De Gea makes a great save, and then we counter and score after many different passes. Had De Gea not made that save we would not have scored that goal, we need to stop thinking about football in terms of the end of the move but in totality.
It was refreshing to see Kagawa not wait for the ball up top when he accelerated there but instead come back and continually offer a simple pass option. This has been lacking in our team, even Rooney if he drops back will just then play it long.
I'm not even a Kagawa fan boy, I just appreciate the little things in football because they are so important. The things like keeping the ball, playing a simple pass and offering options through off the ball motion. That's what Kagawa did and because of it we had the opportunity to get a move flowing. You are right, others were vital in taking that opportunity further up the field but before an opportunity is taken it must first be created.
Those that don't rate Kagawa's role in the goal are like those that think Gerrard in his prime was better than Scholes when he dropped back a bit. I'm sure you understand I'm referring to how Gerrard appears to do better things but the fundamentals by Scholes are just more important. Gerrard was always there involved in the end of the move but by controlling the team's flow and offering options to keep a move alive, Scholes was more so the creator.
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So true.
probably because he and fellaini started the move
this isnt just him though. since when have we done well against teams who have a pressing scheme against us?
if you dont see it with him then you dont see it..for those who do see "it" (whatever "it" is), guess you just have to allow it. I would venture to say it has to do with we can offer more than how he's actually performing
Good post.
I mean I see he's good.
I don't see how he's earned a starting spot (or a space on our best bench if everyone is fit)
hopefully my last post for the day but guess the thing with kagawa is that this season in most of his performances he hasn't done much which you would consider noteworthy. not necessarily poor but not great either. mostly decent. and we want to see more than decent
And I'm sorry but that post is a load of drivel of the highest order. He's not able to play CM in a 2 because he's so lightweight. So to say he's like Scholes is a fallacy as he can't control the game enough.
If you're saying he can keep possession well in the centre of midfield with nice quick passes that move play along. Fantastic. Is that enough to start for us? No.
If you're saying he can keep possession well in the centre of midfield with nice quick passes that move play along. Fantastic. Is that enough to start for us? No.
see my latest post. think that gets to how you feel
Yeah pretty much. He's fluffed his lines when he's gotten to the important parts of the pitch too many times.
wasn't scholes lightweight though? or modric for that matter? fishing
Man of the Match for me today. And i'm sure someone will make a video ft. lots of big white arrows later on to prove it.
for me although it'd be nice if he contributed with goals or more assists, as long as he's either starting or being involved in those moves which lead to goals/assists I dont mind too much. the best moments he's had so far this season have either been pre-assists (pass before the assist) or a near assist (i.e. fletcher hitting post, smalling fluffin lines in front of goal)
Scholes wasn't lightweight no. Not as in he gets shrugged off the ball. Modric was a wiry little fecker as well.
Yes definitely but he doesn't do that enough either.
Good points. I got them the first time, though, and the repetition made the post boring. Cut it down mate, or no one's gonna read those essays - you'll end up with baskets of 'tldr's and Bush gifs. Experience.
He didn't say anything about Kagawa playing in a midfield 2, simply that he does something that Scholes used to do.
And keeping possession and moving play with quick short passes not enough to start for us? That's ALL Cleverley does yet he has far more starts than Kagawa. Anderson couldn't do it. Fletcher hasn't been able to do it since his illness. Carrick has failed at it at times this season. Valencia would be incapable of it yet he has almost more starts than anyone else this season.
Who are you to talk?
Excellent post. I think it sums up how a lot of us feel: if we are going to keep Kagawa, we might as well give him a run of games, and appreciate what he brings to the table.
Who are you to talk?
Excellent post. I think it sums up how a lot of us feel: if we are going to keep Kagawa, we might as well give him a run of games, and appreciate what he brings to the table.
Someone whose first few posts in the mains were all essays, and almost all ended up with the tldr - both the text form and the graphic.
Cleverley can start in a midfield 2 as he's capable of winning the ball back and tracking his runners. Kagawa doesn't offer much defensively.
oooooooohh okay i see what you mean by "lightweight"
yes but maybe if he is played more with this current setup he may contribute more. i think if he's rotated with januzaj and we keep similar setup, then hopefully his performances improve.
It happened today for his second touch. He miscontrolled it a bit and a player come charging through him and just won the ball. Happens way too often
alright that's enough posting for now. i will enjoy this weekend so much more now that United have won! cheers all
Yes, should be a good weekend now!
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