Who here hopes United get spanked tonight?

I'm almost hoping we get knocked out today. Better than running the risk of facing Bayern, Barca or Real and getting smacked all over the pitch.

Regardless of who we draw in the quarter finals we're going out as far as I'm concerned. At this moment in time we're hilariously far behind all the other teams in this competition. Real, Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Atletico, PSG and Chelsea... can anyone see anything but two losses against those teams with our current form?
 
I could never understand wanting your own team to lose.

I don't think winning or losing against Olimpiakos will make or break United's season or affect Moyes's fortune. United aren't winning the CL bar some miracle, and whether he's still in charge come next season isn't going to depend on that. Support your club.
 
antihenry said:
I could never understand wanting your own team to lose.

I don't think winning or losing against Olimpiakos will make or break United's season or affect Moyes's fortune. United aren't winning the CL bar some miracle, and whether he's still in charge come next season isn't going to depend on that. Support your club.
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I think the only way he'll be sacked before Christmas is if the Old Trafford fans start a campaign against him. Even someone as stubborn as Fergie will know that once the crowd turns, there's no going back. This is part of the problem though, how can you support the team whilst campaigning against the manager? It is pretty much impossible, as Chelsea fans found out with Benitez.

It's almost a question of support the team and write off next season or don't support the manager (and ergo the team) and potentially change our fortunes for next year. Personally I think it's time for Moyes to go and if the fans can hasten that then the short term pain (a shit atmosphere) is worth the long term gain (a managerial change).
 
finneh said:
I think the only way he'll be sacked before Christmas is if the Old Trafford fans start a campaign against him. Even someone as stubborn as Fergie will know that once the crowd turns, there's no going back. This is part of the problem though, how can you support the team whilst campaigning against the manager? It is pretty much impossible, as Chelsea fans found out with Benitez.

It's almost a question of support the team and write off next season or don't support the manager (and ergo the team) and potentially change our fortunes for next year. Personally I think it's time for Moyes to go and if the fans can hasten that then the short term pain (a shit atmosphere) is worth the long term gain (a managerial change).
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You're just assuming he'll be as bad next year. Maybe with another full window under his belt and a far better idea of what is required he may just turn it around? If he manages to get rid of the duds—of which there are plenty—then he's already got a better chance.
 
Pink Moon said:
You're just assuming he'll be as bad next year. Maybe with another full window under his belt and a far better idea of what is required he may just turn it around? If he manages to get rid of the duds—of which there are plenty—then he's already got a better chance.
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The question is, what would we categorise as him 'turning it around'?

Would we consider it a success if we squeeze into 4th place next season after spending £150million+?
 
Kaos said:
The question is, what would we categorise as him 'turning it around'?

Would we consider it a success if we squeeze into 4th place next season after spending £150million+?
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If you spent that much then you'd be looking to win the league. Squeezing fourth place would be deemed a failure. I can't see him getting that much money to spend though. He'll bring in one or two players and if he gets 4th place it'll probably be seen as a successful season considering it'll return CL nights to OT.
 
Pink Moon said:
If you spent that much then you'd be looking to win the league. Squeezing fourth place would be deemed a failure. I can't see him getting that much money to spend though. He'll bring in one or two players and if he gets 4th place it'll probably be seen as a successful season considering it'll return CL nights to OT.
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That wouldn't be turning it around then, since it'll still be regression from where we were prior to Moyes taking over. I hope settling for European nights at OT isn't the club's new ceiling of ambition just to accommodate their sanctimonious stance of sticking to an inept manager.
 
Kaos said:
The question is, what would we categorise as him 'turning it around'?

Would we consider it a success if we squeeze into 4th place next season after spending £150million+?
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You can't really say 4th is or isn't a failure without knowing how the season unfolds.

The top 4 is really tight this year, and could be next year. We could easily be in the title race til there's 10 games to go, and then end up fourth due to a few untimely draws against mid-table clubs. You'd call that progress, but just say that bedding in a whole new squad led to inconsistency. Particularly if we have some really good results throughout the season.

On the other hand if Arsenal, Everton, Spurs and Liverpool have poor seasons, and we end up 4th on the last day of the season but finish 20 points behind the winners, having never looked like challenging for the title, then you'd say that's a poor season.

"squeeze into 4th" implies the latter, and I wouldn't call that turning it around. But it is possible to finish in 4th after a good season.
 
Noone knows how the board will react but you have to think if we lose today and against City, they'd be weighing up their options.

I believe that every day with Moyes at the helm is an utter waste of time and just adds time to the wait before we'll eventually be able to challenge again under another manager.

I'd take a 0-4 defeat if that would get him sacked.

He's not only a useless manager. He's also quite unlikeable and strangely arrogant. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
 
bishblaize said:
You can't really say 4th is or isn't a failure without knowing how the season unfolds.

The top 4 is really tight this year, and could be next year. We could easily be in the title race til there's 10 games to go, and then end up fourth due to a few untimely draws against mid-table clubs. You'd call that progress, but just say that bedding in a whole new squad led to inconsistency. Particularly if we have some really good results throughout the season.

On the other hand if Arsenal, Everton, Spurs and Liverpool have poor seasons, and we end up 4th on the last day of the season but finish 20 points behind the winners, having never looked like challenging for the title, then you'd say that's a poor season.

"squeeze into 4th" implies the latter, and I wouldn't call that turning it around. But it is possible to finish in 4th after a good season.
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Fair post, I'd agree that context is paramount when assessing our league position by the end of next season. However that's when I'd also take into account our playstyle over the course of the season. If we squeeze out fourth while playing some aesthetically pleasing football with evidence there of Moyes building a solid foundation then I'd consider it a success.
 
I hope we go through. I mean..there is feck all else for us to be excited about for the rest of this season. We might as well have a glamour draw with Real or whoever. Yeah we might be trounced all over the pitch, but at least we will then know how far we have to travel to match the big boys of Europe!!
 
bishblaize said:
You can't really say 4th is or isn't a failure without knowing how the season unfolds.

The top 4 is really tight this year, and could be next year. We could easily be in the title race til there's 10 games to go, and then end up fourth due to a few untimely draws against mid-table clubs. You'd call that progress, but just say that bedding in a whole new squad led to inconsistency. Particularly if we have some really good results throughout the season.

On the other hand if Arsenal, Everton, Spurs and Liverpool have poor seasons, and we end up 4th on the last day of the season but finish 20 points behind the winners, having never looked like challenging for the title, then you'd say that's a poor season.

"squeeze into 4th" implies the latter, and I wouldn't call that turning it around. But it is possible to finish in 4th after a good season.
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Yeah. Whoever finishes 4th this season will have had a good season anyway - except maybe City as for them the expectations would have been higher and they were always going to fight for the title. Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have all given it a go when it comes to the title race and not everyone expected them to (particularly Liverpool but also Arsenal and to some extent Chelsea who were far off the pace in each of the last 2 seasons but got Mourinho).
 
Kaos said:
That wouldn't be turning it around then, since it'll still be regression from where we were prior to Moyes taking over. I hope settling for European nights at OT isn't the club's new ceiling of ambition just to accommodate their sanctimonious stance of sticking to an inept manager.
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You're 7th just now and look terrible. No worthwhile player will want to join United when they have no CL. If he can get them back into the CL immediately after such a disastrous season then of course it's turning it around. It's not quite Ferguson levels of success but the improvement would be night and day.
 
Pink Moon said:
You're 7th just now and look terrible. No worthwhile player will want to join United when they have no CL. If he can get them back into the CL immediately after such a disastrous season then of course it's turning it around. It's not quite Ferguson levels of success but the improvement would be night and day.
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Not sure that's wholly true. Toure, Silva, Aguero, Tevez, Kompany and a bunch of others joined city before they had CL football. I think its a question of whether a player believes that CL football will duly arrive (and money, of course)
 
I cant stand United losing regardless of Moyes being there or not. My only fear, if we string together a decent run from now and make it to the Europa, Moyes would probably get one more life.

Thursday night football especially with Moyes around we might be staring down at the relegation next season.
 
I love the club so I want to see us win and go through tonight, obviously. However, *if* we are losing and going to lose, then we might as well lose heavily so that the powers will realize that something has to be done.
 
I don't particularly wish for us to go out of the competition, but I know we will, and would embrace it as a means of removing our manager and improving our future.....but that might not even happen! Its potentially a lose-lose situation tonight. The optimum time to sack him was a couple of days ago, because at least we might have had a chance to restore a bit of morale tonight
 
bishblaize said:
Not sure that's wholly true. Toure, Silva, Aguero, Tevez, Kompany and a bunch of others joined city before they had CL football. I think its a question of whether a player believes that CL football will duly arrive (and money, of course)
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Oh yes. It would certainly be harder, but really good players (not top tier of course) would be obtainable. Even Liverpool managed to get some good names (Alonso, Torres, Suarez) when they were fairly shite.
 
Pink Moon said:
You're 7th just now and look terrible. No worthwhile player will want to join United when they have no CL. If he can get them back into the CL immediately after such a disastrous season then of course it's turning it around. It's not quite Ferguson levels of success but the improvement would be night and day.
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That really isn't true. One season without CL won't change the fact that we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, pay massive money and are extremely likely to be challenging for the title again sooner rather than later. A team like Bayern were able to attract players like Ribery when they missed out on a CL place, no reason we can't do the same.
 
Crustanoid said:
I don't particularly wish for us to go out of the competition, but I know we will, and would embrace it as a means of removing our manager and improving our future.....but that might not even happen! Its potentially a lose-lose situation tonight. The optimum time to sack him was a couple of days ago, because at least we might have had a chance to restore a bit of morale tonight
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A win-win situation for me. Lose and Moyes is that much closer to the door and win, and we're in the next round of the CL.

Then again, some could say it's a lose-lose. Lose and that's it for us this season with nothing left to play for by March, having sewn up the league this time last year. Win and Moyes will get another reprieve which will buy him more time.
SirAF said:
I love the club so I want to see us win and go through tonight, obviously. However, *if* we are losing and going to lose, then we might as well lose heavily so that the powers will realize that something has to be done.
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This was my thought process when we were losing 2-0 to Liverpool. A third goal didn't do anything it seems.
 
We're shit in the league. The only chance of redeeming ourselves in any way is to put up a good showing in the CL. It'll ultimately prove futile of course, but if we can say we're CL semi-finalists that'd show any prospective purchases that we're not totally useless.
 
Tonight is a difficult one. We need to win to have any sort of point left to this season, and to obviously give us our only realistic chance of keeping Champions League football next season. A loss would surely spell the end for our hopeless manager. My worry would be that even with a win it just buys him more time.

Based on the fact that it would be very unlikely we will progress past whatever team we would face in the next round, I think i'd rather we got embarrassed again tonight and Moyes' reign comes to an end.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So, with the benefit of hindsight, does anyone now think a heavy defeat against Arsenal would have been a better result for us?

The additional point we picked up makes feck all difference to our league campaign, that's for sure. If we had lost badly in that game followed by the Olympiakos and Liverpool debacles then the thin thread by which Moyes' career at United is hanging would be stretched that bit closer to breaking point.

If nothing else, a convincing Arsenal win would have made it marginally less likely that fecking Liverpool will win the league...
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With hindsight, I dont think a heavy defeat against Arsenal wouldve made a blind bit of difference to be honest.
 
What'd anger me tonight, even more than a draw or even a defeat, is if the approach hasn't changed. If it's still that rigid, lifeless, spineless, blunt formation and approach then I'll be fuming. I'm yet to see even a sign the manager is even bothered about making things right.
 
Dante said:
We're shit in the league. The only chance of redeeming ourselves in any way is to put up a good showing in the CL. It'll ultimately prove futile of course, but if we can say we're CL semi-finalists that'd show any prospective purchases that we're not totally useless.
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Completely agree. Shit teams can grind out results in cup competitions and whilst we are still in it - need to take the chance.
 
Plugsy said:
What'd anger me tonight, even more than a draw or even a defeat, is if the approach hasn't changed. If it's still that rigid, lifeless, spineless, blunt formation and approach then I'll be fuming. I'm yet to see even a sign the manager is even bothered about making things right.
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I hope you are prepared to be angry then.
 
Adebesi said:
With hindsight, I dont think a heavy defeat against Arsenal wouldve made a blind bit of difference to be honest.
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Yep. A heavy defeat against Liverpool at home made absolutely no difference either. If we were to sack him it wouldn't be due to any specific league defeats during the season IMO.
 
Plugsy said:
What'd anger me tonight, even more than a draw or even a defeat, is if the approach hasn't changed. If it's still that rigid, lifeless, spineless, blunt formation and approach then I'll be fuming. I'm yet to see even a sign the manager is even bothered about making things right.
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He was bullish at the press conference yesterday athough more in defending himself and spouting on about his big plans than in saying he WOULD fight to get through to the next round. But then again he was blithering on last week about how well the training had gone and what fine fettle the players were in. I really did believe that the team were up for the Liverpool match which made the performance even more disheartening.
 
I'm going all out for the win tonight and can't understand an alternative mindset. Obviously we can beat olympiakos at home 2-0, we will definitely need to show up though. I'm not scared of meeting a big team in the next round like most people. All the time people say we're going to get hammered by big teams and then we don't. Yeah we got beaten 3-0 by pool the other night but gave away 3 penos and had a bullshit sending off - we simply don't seem to ever get hammered without things not going our way in the extreme, so I'm not too worried about that.
 
As for the thread title if I had any guarantees that Moyes would get the boot if we lost 3-0 tonight and 5-0 to City next week, I'd be all for it to be fair. Short term impact rather than long term suffering anytime. If we keep the smug fecker here, with current level of club's free fall in 5 years time we won't even know who Olympiakos are, we'll be more familiar with Colchester and Doncaster while the smug fecker says that we will try to get back to the top division.
 
Never do I want United to lose, whatever the situation. I don't believe this short term pain for long term gain crap. This is our last of a trophy and to be in the CL next season so we need to give it a good shot
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I'm going all out for the win tonight and can't understand an alternative mindset. Obviously we can beat olympiakos at home 2-0, we will definitely need to show up though. I'm not scared of meeting a big team in the next round like most people. All the time people say we're going to get hammered by big teams and then we don't. Yeah we got beaten 3-0 by pool the other night but gave away 3 penos and had a bullshit sending off - we simply don't seem to ever get hammered without things not going our way in the extreme, so I'm not too worried about that.
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Erm, any half decent team except Arsenal that we have met this season has beaten us. We got 7 fecking points against the whole top 9. City would have put a hundred past us if they hadn't stopped playing at 50.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is anyone willing to admit they're hoping for a heavy defeat tomorrow night?

As we saw at Spurs, humiliating defeats against long term rivals can be the straw that breaks the camel's back for owners that have doubts about their manager. If we're 100% certain that Moyes won't succeed then it's all about the end game. Getting rid as soon as possible. A heavy defeat against Arsenal will help this process along. Especially in the context of recent humiliations. Short term pain, long term gain.

Conversely, beating a top three team away from home will definitely buy him a stay of execution. Possibly for quite some time. If the club is looking for signs of long-term improvement a result like that would carry a lot of weight.

So... Cards on the table. Who's rooting for the gooners?
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If it meant what I hope it might mean, then, actually, yes.
 
Adebesi said:
With hindsight, I dont think a heavy defeat against Arsenal wouldve made a blind bit of difference to be honest.
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FlawlessThaw said:
Yep. A heavy defeat against Liverpool at home made absolutely no difference either. If we were to sack him it wouldn't be due to any specific league defeats during the season IMO.
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I think you're both not getting my point. No manager ever got sacked on the back of a single bad result, in isolation. It's an accumulation of bad results that does them in.

If a heavy defeat by Arsenal at the Emirates could retrospectively be added to the other bad results this season then you'd have to admit he would be closer to the door right now than he is already, surely?

Conversely, proving that he we were able to travel to a team at the top of the table and come within the width of a post of beating them will be a key bit of evidence on the very short list of 'pros' that are considered in deciding his future.
 
Sarni said:
Erm, any half decent team except Arsenal that we have met this season has beaten us. We got 7 fecking points against the whole top 9. City would have put a hundred past us if they hadn't stopped playing at 50.
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yeah i said hammered not beaten. City hammered us no doubt
 
Crashoutcassius said:
yeah i said hammered not beaten. City hammered us no doubt
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As did Liverpool and you could make the case about Chelsea who were 3-0 up after 50 minutes in spite of being quite poor for the whole game. Also, Olympiakos in CL.

We were half decent against Liverpool and Chelsea at the beginning of the season yet failed to score even once. That was before Moyes sucked all the life out of players too.
 
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