Shinji Kagawa

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah there's no way in hell he's starting against Bayern. It'd make far too much sense.

I see exactly what Revan just put. Giggs will pick himself and we'll play three in the middle to compensate so that front three seems logical.
 
Mystry said:
I'm starting to think Kagawa will be here next season, Moyes or no Moyes. At least that's what I'm hoping.

He played well today, him and Mata look like they are getting a good understanding going. Also shows that if the the set up is right, you can start him on the left and he can be effective.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's what quite a few people on here have been saying for a while but others just called him shit because Moyes wanted him to stick to the touchline and put crosses in while the rest just stood around. It's different to Mata as well because Kagawa is quicker, especially over the first 10 yards, so he's capable of playing out wide and making runs in behind. Combine that with his terrific off the ball movement and his great ability to retain possession of the ball, he can become a key player for us next season if he stays.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yup, it's what quite a few people on here have been saying for a while but others just called him shit because Moyes wanted him to stick to the touchline and put crosses in while the rest just stood around. It's different to Mata as well because Kagawa is quicker, especially over the first 10 yards, so he's capable of playing out wide and making runs in behind. Combine that with his terrific off the ball movement and his great ability to retain possession of the ball, he can become a key player for us next season if he stays.
Click to expand...

Hasn't the touchline thing been debunked? When Kagawa plays he comes inside a lot anyway. The starting position isn't so much the issue but who is playing alongside him. He thrives on movement, to both open up gaps so he can interchange with other players as well as to make runs into the box. He's far better off when someone like Mata is playing in the number ten role and Rooney is up top, so the middle doesn't get clogged up as much. There will still be issues with how we defend when someone like him is in the wide position but at least going forward he's far more effective.
 
Mystry said:
Hasn't the touchline thing been debunked? When Kagawa plays he comes inside a lot anyway. The starting position isn't so much the issue but who is playing alongside him. He thrives on movement, to both open up gaps so he can interchange with other players as well as to make runs into the box. He's far better off when someone like Mata is playing in the number ten role and Rooney is up top, so the middle doesn't get clogged up as much. There will still be issues with how we defend when someone like him is in the wide position but at least going forward he's far more effective.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was saying more at the start of the season the reason Moyes wasn't a fan was because he had us playing completely different to right now. Then it was hard work and give it out wide to cross it in, whereas since we signed Mata we've had more free roles and more movement (albeit not nearly enough still). Kagawa was basically the only one drifting around keeping possession when everyone else in the team was just doing long balls or crossing it in, and so he was ineffective as he was the complete opposite of that style.

Also I wouldn't be too worried defensively. He's shown many times he's a hard worker defensively and covers space efficiently and closes down well. Remember the Arsenal game? He doesn't really get stuck in but he presses well and is smart defensively so it goes unnoticed.
 
bosnian_red said:
Also I wouldn't be too worried defensively. He's shown many times he's a hard worker defensively and covers space efficiently and closes down well. Remember the Arsenal game? He doesn't really get stuck in but he presses well and is smart defensively so it goes unnoticed.
Click to expand...

It's more about shape rather than his lack effort in defending, I mean he is a damn hard worker. But if he's drifting about though, it takes a lot of effort to get back into position, especially if he's on the other side of the pitch. In that sort of situation you're relying on your midfielders to cover the space which would be fine and it's a system I would like us to move towards but it does require mobile midfielders which don't really have an abundance of.
 
Mystry said:
It's more about shape rather than his lack effort in defending, I mean he is a damn hard worker. But if he's drifting about though, it takes a lot of effort to get back into position, especially if he's on the other side of the pitch. In that sort of situation you're relying on your midfielders to cover the space which would be fine and it's a system I would like us to move towards but it does require mobile midfielders which don't really have an abundance of.
Click to expand...
Well with the players we have we'd look weak defensively regardless... Valencia and Young on the wings make us look even worse as we can't relieve any pressure. 2 new midfielders and a good left back like Shaw and it could work really well IMO.
 
Lol, Kagawa played no different to what he's played all season long. We've seen how good his crossing can be already, and its been inch perfect with the team not being able to finish. He didn't magically move from the left to the center and back to the left today, it's what he's being doing ALL season long. The only difference is today somebody got their head on the cross and directed it home.

Playing him against Bayern would only work if we play 4-4-1-1. Rooney up top with Kagawa behind him and Welbeck and Valencia offering the width and the runs that we will need to exploit when we get our chance every half hour. Playing a possession game against Bayern isn't possible, so the bet thing to do would be leave Kagawa high up and ask Rooney, Welbeck and Valencia to haul ass when we get on a break.
 
He's so obviously a quality footballer. I find it hilarious when people compare the likes of young and Valencia to him.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He's so obviously a quality footballer. I find it hilarious when people compare the likes of young and Valencia to him.
Click to expand...

He's clearly talented. His problem has been (and will be) that he can't get in regularly in his best position.

He looks very much like a number ten and even when playing out wide wants to get in between the lines like a good number ten does.

His problem is he won't shift Rooney and Mata will get into that position before him. If we sign a left sided player for big money in the summer I think he'll struggle.

For me he looks neat and tidy whenever he plays - he just isn't that effective out of position and has rarely looked the part. Not his fault I suppose, but I think he'll struggle to be a regular if the big summer rebuild comes to pass.
 
RedRover said:
He's clearly talented. His problem has been (and will be) that he can't get in regularly in his best position.

He looks very much like a number ten and even when playing out wide wants to get in between the lines like a good number ten does.

His problem is he won't shift Rooney and Mata will get into that position before him. If we sign a left sided player for big money in the summer I think he'll struggle.

For me he looks neat and tidy whenever he plays - he just isn't that effective out of position and has rarely looked the part. Not his fault I suppose, but I think he'll struggle to be a regular if the big summer rebuild comes to pass.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's an issue. Whether in the middle or out wide, he's a better footballer than those and one I'd rather see play anyday. He also makes those around him better unlike someone like young who relies on a good moment more than anything.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't think it's an issue. Whether in the middle or out wide, he's a better footballer than those and one I'd rather see play anyday. He also makes those around him better unlike someone like young who relies on a good moment more than anything.
Click to expand...
The reason Young is preferred over Kagawa is only due to his pace. He's not a patch on Kagawa in terms of talent, vision and grace.
 
Sultan said:
The reason Young is preferred over Kagawa is only due to his pace. He's not a patch on Kagawa in terms of talent, vision and grace.
Click to expand...

Kagawa usually looks quicker than Young to me. Mainly because he's so sharp in his head and Young runs with his face dragging on the floor. Kagawa is very nippy over the first 5 yards imo, but we'll no doubt see Young again in midweek.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Kagawa usually looks quicker than Young to me. Mainly because he's so sharp in his head and Young runs with his face dragging on the floor. Kagawa is very nippy over the first 5 yards imo, but we'll no doubt see Young again in midweek.
Click to expand...
stupendous analogy :lol:
 
In his recent appearances, I feel he is becoming far more efficient. He is getting involved in the right areas and linking up well. Will it be enough to save his United career? Maybe not but hope his form continues to improve.
 
I reckon he'll be on the bench. Assuming Welbeck is fit he'll play left, Valencia right with Carrick and one of Clev/Fellaini in the middle. Then comes a question of Giggs or Kagawa and I'm certain he'll go for Giggs. I'd like him to play and think he might help keep the ball but I think his contribution would be limited regardless of him hitting some form as we simply won't have the players he can link up with. No mata means he looses someone who is on his wavelength and neither of the two wingers will play in a way that suits him. Valencia will hug the line and whilst Welbeck will come inside he tends to lose composure at times and I can't see them linking that well. I think Giggs ability/willingness to go for the killer ball will give him the edge as he might force a mistake/play someone in, though you do run the risk that he will give the ball away a lot.

If Welbeck isn't fit he's got a good chance from the left but even then I could see him going for Young for his defensive work.
 
I think he will play behind Rooney. Welbeck to the left and Valencia on the right.

Moyes has made a big deal about Bayern pushing high up, which means he think they are susceptible to balls in behind and quick breaks. Kagawa is perfect for that
 
Kagawa and Mata work. With Mata at #10 Kagawa should have no problems with starting out on the left. They rotate, interchange and actually want to move the ball with some nous.

There was a ball Mata attempted to play over the top yesterday that just missed Kagawa running in behind. The pass was genius and the run was really intelligent. More of that and we'll see some improvement, irrespective of the hindrance in charge.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Kagawa usually looks quicker than Young to me. Mainly because he's so sharp in his head and Young runs with his face dragging on the floor. Kagawa is very nippy over the first 5 yards imo, but we'll no doubt see Young again in midweek.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Young's pace is much too overrated. He is decent off the ball, but he just can't run with it. He either takes a touch that is 50 yards in some arbitrary direction, or he stumbles on it trying to imitate a dribble. Both Mata and especially Kagawa are very quick on the first 5-10 yards. They aren't fast over long distances though, and I think we need that. Luckily, even the opposition seems to think that Young has that in his locker. Replace Young with Nani, and we have one helluva attacking line-up. There is a player who actually knows how to run with the ball and has more flat out pace than Young anyhow.
 
I really like the way Kagawa often takes the ball facing away from goal and turns with his first touch to start a run, useful for a counter attack.
 
Until the shape compacts, Kagawa will not find that next gear. Spread out like they are it's a flip of the coin between Young (a more traditional winger) and Kagawa (an advanced midfielder). Kagawa's very quick and can pass sharply, but that's over fairly short distances. To excel, he needs interchange and proximity. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not the way Moyes & Co. have them set up.

I thought he was a lost cause fitting in, but he's shown some flashes of adaptability. A run of games, a tweak here, a tweak there, and Sinji's going to look the part. Then I'll have to add another tick in the column of things I've been wrong about!
 
Hope he stays. He is beginning to get to grips with playing alongside Mata and Rooney. For him adaptability is the key as there will be an ever changing kaleidoscope of forwards - Rooney, Mata, RVP, Welbeck, Januzaj, Valencia, Young, Nani, Hernandez - and formations for different games, and he has to learn to do what is required by the tactical set up for each particular game.
 
Watching Villa game now cos I was busy on saturday, loving Kagawa. Seems to have the will to take a player on far more than he has been. Still lots to come from him I'd say in terms of confidence and taking responsibility for the ball
 
Great game. Bet he is preparing hard for Bayern. I see him sat cross legged, eyes closed in front of a Samurai sword mentally preparing. If he kicks on then it would be hard for Moyes to let him go come the summer unless it was part of a deal for Reus or Ilkay
 
I've been saying this as long as he came to the club - we will be a better team with him playing regularly. Mata at #10 and Kagawa out left allows a smooth interchanging between the too and the most attractive football we've seen all season. The Kagawa introduction is only in its baby days and already it is blatantly obvious that if he is not a regular in the side, there is an actual monkey making the team selections.

Of course the argument about too many attacking players and not enough defensive cover will surface but, I think Kagawa provides more than enough in his tracking back.
 
LonelyFire said:
I think he will play behind Rooney. Welbeck to the left and Valencia on the right.

Moyes has made a big deal about Bayern pushing high up, which means he think they are susceptible to balls in behind and quick breaks. Kagawa is perfect for that
Click to expand...

I hope this is this is the case although in an ideal world I would have Nani for Valencia but whether he has the fitness after injuries is doubtful. Fellani and Carrick Holding (Jones if CB's are fit).

A very tough ask but who knows, could be worse we could be already out.
 
DFreshKing said:
I hope this is this is the case although in an ideal world I would have Nani for Valencia but whether he has the fitness after injuries is doubtful. Fellani and Carrick Holding (Jones if CB's are fit).

A very tough ask but who knows, could be worse we could be already out.
Click to expand...

I don't think fellaini will play. Giggs and Carrick are my prediction. I also think he will play Rafael at left back
 
Played well on the weekend and came off early possibly in mind for Tuesday but it'd be just like Moyes to leave him on the bench against a team he's quite familiar with.
 
Moyes will play Kagawa on the left wing in a system so isolated that Kagawa will struggle to get on with the game against Bayern. It'll end up as a reason for posters who don't like Kagawa to further dismiss him as an 'infuriating player'.
 
His cross at the weekend reminded me of Xavi to Messi in Rome, not really a cross, just a carefully planted ball landed right on it's intended target. Superb!
 
van der star said:
Watch the Kagawa haters' numbers dwindle over the next few weeks, if he gets a good run of games.
Click to expand...
there are no kagawa haters, only people that say he played poorly for us for a year and a half, but hope he stops playing poorly.

most fans hope that he can eventually fit in week in week out. but the times he was given opportunities to be our main playmaker he let us down earlier in the season. Last 4 games he's showed a lot more desire to be responsible and positive imo. taking people on and not just playing safe 3 yard balls, moving better to get away from phsical players
 
fishfingers15 said:
Moyes will play Kagawa on the left wing in a system so isolated that Kagawa will struggle to get on with the game against Bayern. It'll end up as a reason for posters who don't like Kagawa to further dismiss him as an 'infuriating player'.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling Moyes will either be forced or pressured into playing Kagawa through the middle. Rooney is up front, he will go for work ethic out wide, so that will push Kagawa inside.
 
If Kagawa is isolated, it won't be the system. It'll be the fact we're playing Bayern fecking Munich.

Having Buttner behind will give him plenty of support on paper, but I doubt we'll be spending much time in Bayern's half regardless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.