If theres a God out there please don't let this guy start. We might need him in the last five mins to waste time though. He's world class at that.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I would have to turn the television off and go cry in the shower. I've seen Moyes turn champions into crap but that would be a step too far.
You guys miss our two games with Barcelona in 08, when we were negative or am I dreaming of that.
Then we tried to go toe to toe with them in 09 and 11, which was a big mistake.
Then we tried to go toe to toe with them in 09 and 11, which was a big mistake.
I can take playing negatively in the Champions League. It's a necessary evil, but putting Fellaini up top to play Big Sam-ball is a different proposition. In those games, we still had the possibility of playing a quick counter, not just lumping it up for Fellaini to take down.
Whatever you think about him needing time to settle in, and being hampered by his injury, he's been extremely disappointing defensively. I'll forgive his lack of goals, and him not creating much, since our whole squad has basically been very uncreative all season. But defensively, opposition players seem to waltz past him far too easily, and therefore get straight at our defence. It's a shame, because he's decent on the ball (better than most of our other midfielders), and he's not getting inexplicably muscled off the ball quite so often any more. But if he can't learn to stay in front of players, and stay with his man instead of letting him run unmarked into the box, I can't really see him coming good here.
nah mate you don't understand, if moyes does it he is a coward full stop... if mourinho does it its magic tactics... hope thats clear for you
I worry about this, too. He looks like he's only good at heckling the ball holder and nothing else, defensively. He looks like he desperately needs someone like Carrick, Sven Bender, or Carvalho, at this stage, which is worrisome as this is something I would expect from players like Pogba, Yaya Toure, Gundogan, Kroos, Ramires, Ramsey, etc., world class box-to-box midfielders who are also defensively capable but play more attacking roles in their teams. Fellaini's nowhere near such players in terms of ability.
Fellaini's great at holding the ball up and has good close control. He's good at linking up with players in short distances and helps other play a pass-and-move game. He's also a great aerial weapon and is a great option for a cross into the box and in set pieces. However, defensively, he's weak, and his lack of vision and passing precision means that he can't dictate play from our central midfield if he's partnered with a deep-lying midfielder. For a midfielder like him, we'll need to play a short-passing game where he won't have much responsibility dictating play whilst our 3 attacking midfielders/2 AM + 1 winger are responsible for creating chances.
He's our leading tackler, second in interceptions, second only to Vidic in aerial duels won, and is our leading non-defender in clearances. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do defensively.
Stupid fouling aside, he's been okay in the last games. Or is it just me?
I don't think it's just you. Since he came back from his injuries, he, Rooney and De Gea have consistently been our best players.
Thought as much. I think people are just hating because of his price tag and the fact that he is a Moyes buy.
I think he'll be more than decent in a team that is sorted out tactically. I don't appreciate him much as a player but I don't think he deserves the lambasting he is getting right now.
Hopefully he won't feature today.
I remember I was shocked by his stats in West Ham game - 17 aerial duels, only 3 won. How the hell 6,4 ft player had lost so many aerial duels?
He was ok in the last matches, though I think Fletcher was more influential. Can't stand his dirty style of play, seriously - he's worse than Kevin Davies!
He did well at West Brom and West ham. At Liverpool he was humilated but there again so was the team. At City he was all over the place. He seem to be effective against the smaller sides who play physical football but his evident limitations get exposed against teams with a stronger midfield who play pass to feet football.
I think in both those games, it felt like he was the only midfielder we had given that Carrick and Cleverley went missing on many occasions. He probably will get better once we get a lot more organized tactically.
You can't expect him to be a Busquets just because we paid alot for him.
Let's not get carried away with two acceptable performances against weak clubs. He's little more than a good squad man, a wrench you can throw at the Stokes of the world or even as a target man when we're desperate for a late goal. But he's way too weak defensively, too prone to fouling and offers too little creativity in the middle third to be a proper United midfielder.
Jones is far more useful in midfield than Fellaini and Jones isn't even a midfielder.
Jones is far more useful in midfield than Fellaini and Jones isn't even a midfielder.
Carrick is starting to show signs of decline, he always lacked pace and playing him with Fellaini is kind of stupid. Cleverley on the other hand is a homegrown talent (ie free) and he's not first team material.
I hate to say it but we've spent 27m on this guy and at that fee you expect that the manager would bring someone who is more suited to our needs and game. You also expect the manager to know exactly what Fellaini would bring on the table and would play him in a position were he wouldn't look lost and exposed against the top sides. Seriously who would spent 27m for a player who would do well against the likes of West Brom?
I've already mentioned that he's a great tackler and ball-winner. That's his main strength, defensively. His reading of the game, however, hasn't been displayed that often. He's done well in this respect against teams/midfields that aren't top quality i.e. Cardiff, Sociedad, West Ham, Aston Villa, Crystal Palace, etc. However, against teams like Man. City and Liverpool, he's been poor at reading the game and containing the opposition. Hence, for this reason, I say he will need someone to shield him when he heckles the ball-holder and tries to win the ball, quickly. Too often have I seen him get dragged out unnecessarily. Against Aston Villa, recently, Fellaini's defensive weaknesses were shown with 5 tackles against them and 0 interceptions. Fletcher, in comparison, had 1 more interception than Fellaini, suggesting that he also struggled to contain Villa's midfield.
His recent performances have been good, overall. His bad performances, recently, have come against good football teams like Liverpool and Man. City where his defensive weaknesses were exploited, and his limited attacking prowess was revealed. Against Aston Villa, he was good at winning the ball, but his defensive positioning was poor.
But what can Fellaini do? He's not this kind of a player. In no way is he a defensive midfielder. He's always been a box-to-box midfielder who's been good at winning the ball aggressively and quickly and supporting the more attacking players with his physical presence, good link-up, and good ball-holding ability, allowing the opposition to be drawn into him and, thus, providing space for the attacking players to exploit. These traits suggest that Fellaini will be beneficial in a short-passing system where he is provided defensive support by his midfield partner and attacking support by the 3 attacking midfielders/2 AM + 1 winger ahead of him.
In no way is he ever a defensive-minded box-to-box midfielder/defensive midfielder. Moyes has played him in such a role too often at the beginning of the season, and it made it tough for him to have an impact, especially when we didn't have Carrick in form/a good dictator in central midfield along with a poor attacking setup. His recent performances have been down to Moyes starting to play him to his strengths (except against Man. City and Liverpool). His defensive performance against Aston Villa showed what he lacked and how poor Fletcher did to support Fellaini, defensively.
Fellaini can have a good impact for us if we play to his strengths. Moyes is misusing him by playing him as a holding midfielder.
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I think the performances against those two weak clubs have shown what Fellaini's strengths, and his bad performances against Man. City, Liverpool, and Aston Villa have shown his weaknesses.
His defensive weaknesses can be covered by a proper anchor man. His attacking weaknesses can be covered through a short-passing system where much of the creativity comes from the attacking midfielders/wingers/forwards.
However, if we're still playing a 2-man-midfield system that demands more than just 1-2 small roles, then Fellaini won't be good enough for us. However, if we go for something like what Man. City where their attacking midfielders drop deep/into the middle areas, then Fellaini can be of good use, though I don't know if that will be as our main starter.
Our 40 year old will do a better job
Couldn't have said it better myself
Fellaini has so far appeared to be horribly short of the basic standard required to be a United midfielder.
I can understand a lack of quality in a footballer, not every player can be endowed with the greatest talent. What irks me is his lack of effort and application which simply cannot be excused at this level. It's been embarrassing as a United fan seeing how easily opposing midfielders have just run past him. He is either simply lazy or lacks energy judging by his slow motion tracking back when caught up-field. For a supposed hard man he is timid in his tackling to any loose ball on the ground, and his constant fouling if anyone challenges him for the ball above waist high is just a red card waiting to happen.
Rant over
I can understand a lack of quality in a footballer, not every player can be endowed with the greatest talent. What irks me is his lack of effort and application which simply cannot be excused at this level. It's been embarrassing as a United fan seeing how easily opposing midfielders have just run past him. He is either simply lazy or lacks energy judging by his slow motion tracking back when caught up-field. For a supposed hard man he is timid in his tackling to any loose ball on the ground, and his constant fouling if anyone challenges him for the ball above waist high is just a red card waiting to happen.
Rant over
Never have I agreed with you more.
Heathen!
I agree he has not been great, but to put it in context more experienced and settled midfielders have been worse. He has been our best cm since he came back from injury.
Stats show he is tackling, intercepting and breaking up the play and passing to teamates most of the time. He keeps the pressure on winning midfield headers and has even shown a decent touch on occasion.
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Pretty difficult to be timid and overzealous in the tackle, it appears you are analysing everything he does looking for error. If you took that approach with all the players you would struggle to have time to do anything else.
He needs time and a partner then he will be a decent player for us.
That is my main gripe with him. And it is not even a case of him being caught up-field. In the City game, he was 10-15 yards from our box with Fernandinho running with the ball towards him. He got done by a simple change of direction. That was not the problem, but after that he turned around and started gently jogging back. It's like he felt he would not be able to catch up with the play and let the players behind him take responsibility for defending. All this while Rooney bust a gut to get back in the box to defend. It was embarrassing.
I'd rather trust my observations than statistics which can be manipulated to suit an agenda. If you check my posting history you'll hardly find me being overly negative of our players.
Fellaini probably falls in the category of worst midfield players over the last few decades to have played for United. The list is not that big. IIRC Ralph Milne, Djemba Djemba, and Kleberson comes immediately to mind. There will have been others, but they've generally been from our youth system.
I'm not even getting into transfer fee debate. That's not his fault.
I was actually glad when we signed him, though he's been a complete disappointment for me.
Granted he's been injured for fair bit, though from what I've seen so far he's far too clumsy and oaf-like to be a solid midfield solution for us. I can only see him being ultimately useful as a plan B option where we just think feck it, and chuck him up top where we bombard long balls onto his Afro.
Granted he's been injured for fair bit, though from what I've seen so far he's far too clumsy and oaf-like to be a solid midfield solution for us. I can only see him being ultimately useful as a plan B option where we just think feck it, and chuck him up top where we bombard long balls onto his Afro.
Some utter fiction coming out of this thread. He's not a worldie, he's not a 28m player but on performances for United this season he's currently our best midfielder. Say what you want about the quality of the rest but he's not even close to being our worst midfielder now, let alone one of our worst ever.
Against the smaller teams he has been good. But the moment we are faced with any opposition above us, he falls apart.
And the rest of the midfield doesn't? Constant scapegoating is one of the worst aspects of our spoilt fanbase.
Who claims the rest of the midfield has not been poor? And most of them have been criticized as well. That does not mean we cannot criticize Fellaini for being poor as well.
I believe Fellaini will do well if we lower the expectations bar to around this season's level but if we aspire for more, like we are accustomed to, then we need a much better player .
I believe Moyes will do well if we lower the expectations bar to around this season's level but if we aspire for more, like we are accustomed to, then we need a much better manager.
In response to me saying he's our best midfielder you mentioned his poor performance in the big games, which is just as much the case for most of our players, especially in midfield.
The scapegoating part wasn't really directed at you, but in general I find it a little pathetic that whenever we play poorly Fellaini gets targeted despite not even being close to one of the worst offenders. People do it to such an extent that posters in this thread have him down as one of our worst players in a long time which is just pure fiction.
He has been good in a handful of games against the lower sides. Yes, that could well make him our best midfielder, but that shows the state of our midfield more than his ability as a player.
Carrick has been well below par but is still miles ahead. Fletcher is by far a better player but I guess you can argue minutes on the pitch count to an overall opinion and on top of that, a 40 year old Giggs shows far more than he does.
I am not a fan of Fellaini but I agree that some of the stick is over the top but to say he is currently our best midfielder is just wrong.
Game of opinions though I guess.
I really love to know where does it came idea that he has been our best midfielder since his injury. It must be that people are desperate to see him do well, that even semi acceptable performances will be labelled as very good and will give the best midfielder in our team title. It isn't the case though, I genuinely think that even with all the decline of Carrick he has been a better player and Fletcher has been better too. Fellaini is so incoonsistent, unpredictable and stupid to even be considered for that.
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