S.O.S - save our scousers (from evil Moses)
Liverpool
- Thread starter Sally Cinnamon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don't foresee a Liverpool title challenge next season. They don't have the squad to compete both domestically and in Europe. Also, as stated above, I expect Arsenal, Chelsea, City, and ourselves to improve significantly next season. Liverpool's priority this summer will probably involve keeping hold of Suarez again.
I'm generally a pessimist. Liverpool will win the league which will enable them to sign a bunch of really good players and hence dominate for years.
Thankfully the days of Premier League domination are over.
Its not going to be as easy for United as you think, it'll be harder than ever. In 08/09 we finished 2nd in the league, our best finish in years, the following 4 years we finished out of the top 4. Don't think that can't happen to United, you are going to strengthen, but you will weaken as well with the likes of Vidic leaving- figures like this are very hard to replace (see Alonso, Mascherano) leaving. You also might get some transfer request from the likes of Kagawa or Hernandez. The top 4 is hard to get back into once you are out of it and I'm not trying to WUM here but I think United won't get back into it just as easily as some think.
Also, I have no fear Suarez will stay leave this summer either. Our squad this year was build for completing domestically so it is obvious we are going to going to bulk up our squad. I'm not suggesting we will stroll back into the top 4 by any means but I think things are looking good for us in that respect, we can offer Champions League football not which will attract players we struggled to attract before, we have been one of the best teams in the league this year as well- hell if we do win it it'll open up a world of opportunity.
None of the players you mentioned are consistent starters. We will improve next season, of that there is little doubt. How much we improve is still up for question, however.
Both City and Chelsea are doing considerably better than they were last year, the only team that is really having a poor season is United.
After 33 games last year City had 68 points, after 31 this year they have 70 points, likewise Chelsea after 33 last year has 62 points, this year they have 72 points.
That's besides the point, losing a lot of players at once is not good for a team, especially leader like Vidic and potentially Giggs and Evra. A large turnover of players regardless of how good the ones you bring in are doesn't necessarily equate to success, look at Spurs for example- too many changes in personnel didn't help them.
There won't be a massive turnover of players this summer, probably two or three to actually come into the first team. Two or three top quality players, I imagine.
Spurs lost their best player. United won't be losing anyone as important as Bale was to Spurs.
I suppose only time will tell, it'll be an interesting summer from both ours and your perspectives.
Without a doubt. A good time to be a Liverpool fan, unfortunately.
City were poor last season though and not even in the title race. Chelsea have improved ofcourse but this is not the peak Chelsea team Jose would want. Both of them would want to kick on next season.
Yea that's what I'm saying, both teams have improved.
Surprisingly I don't have the gift of seeing into the future so naturally enough my predictions are going to be full of 'thinks' and 'ifs', I'm not really sure what your point is here.
Rumoured kits for next season, Home and Away are nice, third is ghastly looking- especially the keeper kit.
Rumoured kits for next season, Home and Away are nice, third is ghastly looking- especially the keeper kit.
tsk tsk. Grey shirt. No-one will see him!
Key points bolded think and if. (previous post deleted as I hit post too soon)
I have also bolded some other key points, United 2014 are not by any stretch Liverpool of 09, United are a superpower financially and will speculate to accumulate, we've spent a fair bit of time under Fergusons latter years not competing financially with the big boys as we've simply not needed too. This terrible season will see that addressed, it's been all but told it will happen, we will also be strengthening from a position of strength squad wise (despite claims to the contrary), Arsenal,Chelsea and City will also be doing the same, Liverpool will be strengthening under financial constraints with the smallest squad of the lot and Champions league football. As for the Champions league football, you will be in the pot unseeded with the heavyweights and future signings might still be stand offish for fear of a relatively poor CL run, if that happens then I think you could find yourselves in a worse position financially, squad strengthening outlay and no major input from CL football could see that proposed stadium shelved for another number of years(that is the huge factor holding you back).
Your key to all however could be David feckin Moyes.
All just thoughts, If's and buts mind ya.
Dropping out of the top 4 won't be a dramatic fall for your lot though. It's hardly like you've performed at this level for ages and a below top 4 finish would mean huge drop off. A season below this one season's standards with teams like united spending big, and it's quite probable. Then again, well probably still have David Moyes.
So you don't think there's any possibility that United have been "punching above their weight" for the last couple of seasons, with only the genius of Alex Ferguson keeping you flying high. That would explain how the same team with £70-£80m of additions has struggled this season.
Just a thought like.....
That seems to be the stock argument on here: Liverpool won't have it as easy next year because we're all going to spend mega-bucks. City spent over £90 million in the summer on players like Fernandinho, Navas, Negrado, Jovetic, & Demichelis, yet they're not exactly running away with the league are they ? If spending money = success then City & Chelsea would both be on 90 odd points by now. Anyway, signing too many players at once can have a detrimental effect, regardless of how good they are, or how much they cost. Not every player is going to hit the ground running, so if your team isn't playing to near enough it's true potential every week, then you've got problems - Spurs being an ideal case in point - The manager then has choices to make. Does he persist with the player or does he try someone new ? & that's when the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
Things have changed a lot since United had a free pathway to signing the likes of Rio Ferdinand for £30 million. Any such player comes up now, & you're up against quite a few clubs who can blow you out of the water financially. Add to that you've lost Fergie, & no CL football, suddenly United are not the big draw they once were to some top players.
But when all's said & done, it's the quality of the manager who'll determine the future of the likes of Liverpool, City, United, Chelsea, & Arsenal. You're not the first one to say we're punching above our weight. However, I see it as the whole being greater than the sum of its parts when it comes to Liverpool. & you have to look to Brendan Rodgers for achieving such a feat. The thing is, we know ourselves, as I'm sure Rodgers does, that there are certain areas in our team, & in our play, that can be improved. So what happens if he does that for next season ?
I've said all along that I don't think we'll win the league. & I reckon City will burst our bubble on Sunday. But it's been a great ride for us this season. It might well turn out that we could be one-season wonders just like 2009. However, given the choice of being in United's shoes, with David Moyes as manager & £200 million to spend, or Brendan Rodgers & £50 to £60 million to splash out on new players. Then it'll be Brendan all the way for me. What say you ?
But that doesn't alter my point that they are still below par. They have had really bad dips this year, on paper they are the best squads in my opinion, even though City are a defender short and Chelsea a striker short, both situations that will be rectified.
It's already been pointed out but who are all these teams that are having "poor seasons"? I only see United. Arsenal are very similar with City, Chelsea and Liverpool all better than last season.
As for all these other teams ready to spend it has been pointed out numerous times on here over the years that Liverpool's spending has never led to titles and predominance. In fact, the year Liverpool have it right is the year they build a TEAM not a cumbersome and expensive squad.
It's going to be the stock answer for a quite a while as it's simply true and i've bolded a second sentence in your post showing you feel the same way.
The stock answer for Liverpool fans seems to be "we have Rodgers" but Rodgers as good as he's done is still unproven, he's never been in the Champions league before and we've no idea how he will do in the transfer market when he has to get in a few players at once to cover the squad, we've also no idea how he will juggle a larger squad, it might all prove to much. We've seen Moyes come from a relatively stable background and stepped into an elite club and become half the man he seemed to be, Moyes however is slowly getting it and starting to use his squad to better effect but if he fails he will be gone and United will throw money at it to get in a top class proven coach, if you doubt that then you haven't been paying attention for the last 20 odd years.
That is only part of what I am saying though. And for years ye were spouting that money did equal success and everyone was buying the league.
Liverpool are punching above their weight and getting results people didn't expect. The exact opposite applies to last years top four and Spurs too.
City and Chelsea have dropped unlikely points this season. City in particular should have the league done and dusted.
A team is very well, but you need a "cumbersome and expensive squad" to use your words, when you have to factor in games against Europe's elite.
Liverpool are doing well, better than expected is my point, and a lot of things are working in their favour. It's only an opinion and mine is this is your best chance by far.
Hehe, after decades of the whole of Merseyside screaming the opposite.
Obviously, and now he is gone we see that. To rectify the balance United will have to spend a shitload of cash. Which it looks like they will.
They're teams too. They just have bigger squads because they challenge on various fronts.
Moyes has to build his team first so nothing is guaranteed there.
As for Liverpool, this season the point that "small is beautiful" has certainly been the case in terms of the squad.As for next year, who thinks Rodgers will look at the squad (that may well have won the league) and think "yep, that's all fine"? Of course he will strengthen with the knowledge that he will have added cache given the league finish (top 3), CL football and managing England's most improved team. Liverpool's stock has risen this year so the likes of Salah and Willian are more likely to choose us than go elsewhere.
This is Liverpool's opportunity rather than it being a cross to bear.
We were dominant for years and yet players like Hazard and Nasri opted for bigger wages from the oil clubs over us. You'll be in a better position alright but money still talks and the wages you offer aren't comparable with those two. Even if you won the league I'd still wager that players would opt for City/Chelsea over you for that fact alone.
It's an opportunity for sure. But next season will also be an opportunity for united to get back to the top. I can easily see Liverpool or united or arsenal finishing outside the top 4 next season. It's all up for grabs.
But my point regarding the "team" comment was that it's all well and good having a set group of players that play every week when that's what you can afford and don't have many competitions to deal with. When you're loaded like Chelsea and City are and are expected to do something on all fronts, then you have to have a bigger squad.
Evening lads.
I think if we finish in the top 4 next season and manage to win a cup, then I'd take that at the moment. Then build on that.
As for Micah Richards, I wouldn't touch him. I'd rather let Andre Wisdom have a chance because I think he could be just as good, but without the injuries.
I think if we finish in the top 4 next season and manage to win a cup, then I'd take that at the moment. Then build on that.
As for Micah Richards, I wouldn't touch him. I'd rather let Andre Wisdom have a chance because I think he could be just as good, but without the injuries.
It's hard to say that at the moment though, there is no reason why we cannot strengthen in the summer just as most others will obviously do.
It is too early to say.
Not many on here (me included) thought we would make top 4 this season, as it stands we have a good squad, a very good young manager, and if we get Champions League football for next season we should be able to add that extra bit of quality we need.
But yes if anything it will be harder next season for sure.
I think Suarez will still be with us.
And you trust Moyes with that cash?
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Feck it, it's not my cash.
The early posts in the RAWK thread just show the job Rodgers has done. Four or five signings and a couple of loan signings coming back and I think we could go even further.
Anyone watch a lot of the championship? I'd like to know how Ibe, Wisdom and Robinson are doing. I have high hopes of Ibe and Robinson, but Robinson seems to have dropped off and Wisdom has stepped up.
Anyone watch a lot of the championship? I'd like to know how Ibe, Wisdom and Robinson are doing. I have high hopes of Ibe and Robinson, but Robinson seems to have dropped off and Wisdom has stepped up.
I rate Robinson, as I live near Blackpol I have heard a bit about him. He has done well, obviously benefiting from regular football. Makes some strong runs and has set up a few goals.Unfortunatley after a good start the team have had a terrible run of results and could go down (they have a hard run in of fixtures),
Hence that hasn't helped. Where he has fallen down is being a bit rash at times, he has been sent off at least twice, ironically the last for fouling Jordan Ibe!
Seen Derby a couple of times on TV, Wisdom played right back , he looked ok, steady, didn't get forward much but solid defensively. I just can't see him getting a game in front of Johnson or Flanagan. Plus McLaughlin looks a decent prospect too.
It will be interesting to what happens in the summer in the full back positions.But We do have some good young players
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Fair enough, Stick.
I think City have reaped the rewards of the structure that Pellegrini brought and looks like is a much better manager/motivator than Mancini. They also have a couple of games in hand and are only 2 points behind. However, I would still argue that it is tougher for manager in his first season at a new club, in a league that he hasn't managed before. Some their performances in away games earlier in the season is a testament to that.
Jose inherited a team, which has done consistently poorly in the league for a couple of seasons before he joined. He has come back after 7 years out and proven winner or not, it can time to adjust back, especially in the premier league, where the competition is far tougher than any other league. Even from the bottom clubs.
Again, I am not taking anything away from Rodgers. Even the most optimistic of 'Pool fans wouldn't have envisaged their team sitting top of the league after 33 games in the season. Like any manger, he has made good buys and bad after spending a substantial sum of money. His achievement, like you said, is that he has been able to get the the absolute best out of couple of his signings and players like Henderson. Kudos to him. Though, I would still hold off on serenading him as the best manager since the beginning of time. Like you mentioned, showing consistency is the key and able to do it again, and again, would be the test. If that view makes me bitter, so be it.
Yeah I don't disagree with any of your points on City and Chelsea. I still think City will shade this one with their quality and size of squad but it's our best chance in years. Consistency is it for me. I know you lads hated Rafa but he was very consistent for us and pushed us close. I just hope Rodgers can go one better in the league than Rafa and continue to deliver for a few years yet.
That's certainly true about City & Chelsea though. I doubt there's many on here would disagree with that. But when you see a team like Dortmund, managed by someone like Klopp, achieve what they have, it gives you the hope & belief that it is possible to succeed without a sugar-daddy's mega-millions if you can get hold of the right manager.
& how on earth can you say that the likes of City & Chelsea are underachieving in the league ? They are both going to surpass their respective points total from last season:
City finished on 78 points in 2013. They now have 70 with 6 games left to play.
Chelsea finished on 75 points in 2013. They now have 72 with 5 games left to play.
Arsenal are 9 points short of last season's total with 5 matches still left to play.
& what about Everton ? Everyone thought they did tremendously well last year in finishing 5th with 63 points. They have now matched that total with 6 games still remaining. So are they punching above their weight too ? Or maybe, just like Liverpool, they have someone in charge that has the quality to take them up a couple of levels.
It's a bit blinkered to think that just because Manchester United have been in the unusual position of not being in the race for the title, that somehow the race isn't as competitive as it should be.