I echo most people's sentiments on here, I thought he was our best player last night by some distance. His speed of thought, particularly when being pressed, is at least one step ahead of most. He's so graceful and elegant on the ball. Always seemed to wriggle free from tight spots when two or three Bayern players were in close proximity. He needs to stay and play pretty much every game with Mata and our attack will be so much more fluid. I just hope Moyes centres his plans around them both.
Shinji Kagawa
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I'm glad Moyes seems to be recognizing his quality. It'd be a real shame if he left. I wasn't as sure on him as a lot of others on here but I think it's imperative he stays now. He and Mata are who the team needs to be built around.
I will like a player if he's playing well. I won't if he isn't. I don't think many people here will accuse me of being anti United so well done for that.
Some fans were praising when he had bad performances and even tried to spin things positively, giving him excuses after excuses. Now he's playing much better and has gained more confidence from Moyes and it shows in his play so of course he is going to be praised.
Some of our fans take things too personally when a player (their idol) is criticized and wait for the moment to shout "I told you so" from rooftops.
Shinji for whatever reason over the majority of the last two seasons only showed sporadic brilliance. He has even admitted as much himself. I don't think anyone has doubted his obvious quality. He has had a couple excellent games without playing as a number 10. Those who criticised the management and making excuses for his mediocre performances for playing him in wrong positions need to have a word with themselves.
He has been praiseworthy over the last few games - Lets hope this continues.
He has been praiseworthy over the last few games - Lets hope this continues.
You're wrong on both counts.He was shit for a while and now he's been amazing. I literally don't see how those quotes are embarrassing. I've posted numerous times since then
It really is that simple.
Yeah, if you need to take a simplistic look at things to explain away how he was poorly managed.
But, at the end of the day, he was poorly managed and the results were seen on the pitch. It was shockingly obvious and the time and even more so now that he's being managed better. Same goes for Hernandez. Same goes for Smalling.
Some of his bad performances had nothing with being poorly managed as at times he was playing in his favorite position and still looked bad, there were times he played on the left and his performances were better. I firmly believe there is one thing that explains why he was average and why he wasn't at times.
It's a combo of many things and yes Moyes misusing him played an important role in that, just fans were never really open to the opinion that Kagawa himself couldn't do better. It was mainly Moyes' fault.
people like you were not criticizing his performances only though, you were drawing stupid conclusions when anyone with an ounce of high level football intellect could see what he would bring to the team when he gets played regularly, instead of the stop start stuff he'd been getting until recently. You wanted him sold, luckily a man like me knew better.
It got to the point where Kagawa would get slated for underperforming when he has hardly had match practice.
We have won.
This.
It's interesting that when we first signed Mata, you'd thought that it's the end of Shinji but now it seems like it's the best thing that could have happened to him. Hope he keeps his good form now
I still fear he's going to be let go in the Summer so Young can play a bit more.
He's impressive technically. He still hasn't blown anyone away since that hat trick against Norwich, but outside of goals and defence-splitting passes, he has a distinct technical ability which we lack throughout the core of the team. When we play against teams that press, most of our players will look for a long ball, or a backwards pass before a player gets near them. For all his lightweight size and build, Kagawa is one of the very few players in our squad who can operate whilst being pressed by one or two players. He seems to thrive on it, and he can still manage to stretch play whilst he has defenders charging at him.
Do we have anyone else capable of that? RVP is good at it too, and Welbeck to an extent. I haven't seen enough of Mata doing it. You look at the Bayern team and every player was comfortable taking the ball right on the touchline surrounded by United players, even the two centre backs to an extent (though they were the weak link) and they all manage to play the ball calmly. Even the bleedin' goalkeeper looking for the short pass more often than hoofing it, even when he had Welbeck climbing down his throat. Everyone else in United colours looks bewildered and panicky when pressed, and we struggle to play any kind of football when teams press high. Even teams like Southampton have come to Old Trafford and been a thorn in our side by constantly closing us down, and blockading our football completely. I'm surprised more teams don't do it against us, but whenever they do, we just can't handle it. If you get right at Carrick and the two centre backs, you'll resort them to long balls and kicks into touch. We really should be better than that.
Kagawa is far from being our best player, but he does possess something very few of our players have, which is quite shocking. The difference in class last night was always apparent, but in terms of ball-playing composure, all 11 Bayern players had it, and I believe only Kagawa was anywhere near that level.
Do we have anyone else capable of that? RVP is good at it too, and Welbeck to an extent. I haven't seen enough of Mata doing it. You look at the Bayern team and every player was comfortable taking the ball right on the touchline surrounded by United players, even the two centre backs to an extent (though they were the weak link) and they all manage to play the ball calmly. Even the bleedin' goalkeeper looking for the short pass more often than hoofing it, even when he had Welbeck climbing down his throat. Everyone else in United colours looks bewildered and panicky when pressed, and we struggle to play any kind of football when teams press high. Even teams like Southampton have come to Old Trafford and been a thorn in our side by constantly closing us down, and blockading our football completely. I'm surprised more teams don't do it against us, but whenever they do, we just can't handle it. If you get right at Carrick and the two centre backs, you'll resort them to long balls and kicks into touch. We really should be better than that.
Kagawa is far from being our best player, but he does possess something very few of our players have, which is quite shocking. The difference in class last night was always apparent, but in terms of ball-playing composure, all 11 Bayern players had it, and I believe only Kagawa was anywhere near that level.
Very unfortunate not to have you as our manager.
Yeah, fecking slate all these fecking players when they have a poor spell after a good debut season.
Unless, obviously, most people don't like them. Then act like a top fan and stand by them.
I was particularly galled by Kagawa missing two weeks of the season after eating so much food.
Bring my head on a platter served with truffles if I fail to do a better job than our working class scotsman.
I watched the match on the German channel ZDF last night and it was funny to see how the commentator was describing half our squad as the archetypical rugby player who will sweat blood for the team but has little footballing qualities... enjoyed him laughing off our highly prized Rooney's play in possession.
Then whenever Kagawa was in possession you could smell the fear and respect in the German commentator's voice. He was the only one he deemed a footballer in our squad.
I actually made some notes on how the Bayern players were quickly closing in and committing to the tackle whenever the likes of Valencia and co had the ball in tight spaces, but take for instance that moment when Kagawa kept possession against 3 Bayern players in the corner area... they were actually keeping their distance, knowing he is the only decent technician on our side yesterday.
Then whenever Kagawa was in possession you could smell the fear and respect in the German commentator's voice. He was the only one he deemed a footballer in our squad.
I actually made some notes on how the Bayern players were quickly closing in and committing to the tackle whenever the likes of Valencia and co had the ball in tight spaces, but take for instance that moment when Kagawa kept possession against 3 Bayern players in the corner area... they were actually keeping their distance, knowing he is the only decent technician on our side yesterday.
Kill him.
I wish I was watching the game with you.
It is by far and away the most unprofessional thing I've seen at United in years. Add that to his underwhelming performances and he was certainly one of my least favoured players.
Now though he's showing his obvious talent. Good on him.
Would I find you defending Youngie or Antoine when searching those threads though?
Yes and I still will.
You're incredibly weird.
Though knowing you I am pretty sure the reason why you dislike/disliked Kagawa is that most people like him. Likewise you prefer Young because he isn't really warmed to by most people.
I'm more lenient on Young because while he's a useful member of the squad he's derided on here constantly. In all fairness apart from our defence I think most of our players are good enough.
So you felt compelled to back two players who have had the luxury of being used regularly but were still well below average in most of their matches since last season and look like oafs technically... but hacked into Kagawa like a mythological axehound during a period when he has had anything but a consistent run of games because ''what is wrong with slating someone when he has been shit''. And you are scratching your head whilst belching out a ''HEW'' when people are feeling vindicated... right.
Incredible foresight. If we had people like you in charge at United, we would quickly enter the final phase of our transformation into a ''huff and puff, hack and hoof, pummel the ball through the roof! OLE OLE'' club.
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Yeah well you take notes while watching football so whatever.
Do you not think it's possible that your stance on Kagawa was somewhat influenced by a desire to defend Moyes and players like Young, as a response to the insufferable and exaggerated attacks that they were getting from the herd who also heralded Kagawa as some kind of mistreated Messiah figure?
I think generally the sentiment/intentions of your posts are noble but you go so far to the extreme opposite of popular opinion that you lose credibility and it actually has a detrimental affect on the general point you try to make.
I'm curious if this is deliberate on your part or if it's something you're aware of.
Oh most definitely, I am not a good writer and really don't know much about football, so my points come across poorly, I just can't stand when the tide turns on smoeone so bad that even their positive attributes are put down negatively.
I also think a lot of my annoyance comes from this idea that there is a "right" way to play football. As if Kagawa is a good player because he's small and technical and Young isn't a good player because he's quick and runs down the line. There's a place for both hopefully if they're on their best form.
He's good with a football at his feet. Always a benefit in top level European football.
Great post on so many levels.
I know exactly what you're getting at but it's so true that these miniature playmakers have come into fashion, but while some of them are good, it doesn't mean that everyone is fantastic.
For a while Shinji played poorly whenever he come on. But because he is a small playmaker he'll have his fans no matter what. Same as players like Nani. He can be amazing and he's fantasticaly skillful so he's praised. But FFS sometimes Young and Valencia are better than him because sometimes he's just not good enough. There's room in the world for numerous different type of players that's the main thing I want to get across. Just because Ashley Young is a conventional winger doe not mean he isn't good enough for United.
No-one's saying that "traditional" wingers are bad. Reus, Di Maria etc are fantastic wingers and would be great assets at United. They're saying Ashley Young is not good enough for United and he's clearly not. He's certainly worse than Kagawa, on virtually every level other than maybe long range shooting. And you're comparing a player playing in his favoured position, in his home country, in a league he's played in his entire career against someone who moved to a new league, learnt a new language, and playing in a position AND formation that works against his strengths. And yet Kagawa on his worst days performed no worse than Young did. That should pretty much tell you what Ashley Young's level is.
So, tale of story. People aren't against wingers. They're just against SHIT wingers.
You mean like the way our 300k a week, professional footballer, and United talisman Rooney usually starts the season completely out of shape? Or costs us a title like the time he decided to go on the piss before the New Years game against Blackburn?
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He did though. For a while Kagawa was awful every week for us. And Young was playing all right for a time. He's been poor recently though.
This fecking thread. What a car crash.
Delighted to see Kagawa showing his class over these last few weeks. Really hope this is the start of a long and succesful career at United. He's a terrific wee player when he's on his game.
Couple of points I find amusing though.
Wasn't Kagawa supposed to play at number 10 in order to be influential? Lo and behold, he suddenly starts looking the business playing the exact same role he's been asked to play since day one. Well I never.
Also, wasn't poor wee Kagawa supposed to be struggling because he was surrounded by utter cart-horses who wouldn't know how to make a run in the final third if someone marked it out on the pitch with a fecking paintbrush? Now we finally see Kagawa looking incisive and effective should we be giving all the credit to the intelligent runs being made by Welbeck, Valencia and a half-fit Rooney? Runs they've presumably only just learned how to make (credit to Steve Round's great coaching maybe?) Or perhaps he's thriving because we're no longer playing with Van Persie? I mean what the feck does RvP know about movement in the final third?
Delighted to see Kagawa showing his class over these last few weeks. Really hope this is the start of a long and succesful career at United. He's a terrific wee player when he's on his game.
Couple of points I find amusing though.
Wasn't Kagawa supposed to play at number 10 in order to be influential? Lo and behold, he suddenly starts looking the business playing the exact same role he's been asked to play since day one. Well I never.
Also, wasn't poor wee Kagawa supposed to be struggling because he was surrounded by utter cart-horses who wouldn't know how to make a run in the final third if someone marked it out on the pitch with a fecking paintbrush? Now we finally see Kagawa looking incisive and effective should we be giving all the credit to the intelligent runs being made by Welbeck, Valencia and a half-fit Rooney? Runs they've presumably only just learned how to make (credit to Steve Round's great coaching maybe?) Or perhaps he's thriving because we're no longer playing with Van Persie? I mean what the feck does RvP know about movement in the final third?
See I'm shit at posting, Pogue is good. He say brain thoughts on page good.
I can't remember a time in Kagawa's United career in which he was "awful every week", in the times he hasn't played well he was simply never kept in the team.
I think the Swansea FA cup game around then stands out.
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