Pep Guardiola's Bayern

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Bob Loblaw said:
Not sure why people keep saying he's trying to turn them into Barcelona either, by the way. It's possession football but the style is completely different.
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This is true. They do play differently. I preferred the brutality of last season's Bayern, but Guardiola it still doing a good job. There's some fair points in this thread, but a lot of it is an overreaction. They are still a cracking team, just a bit of naivety and the obvious case of playing against players like Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale has undone them here.
 
Ballache said:
I can't believe how naively he's set up his team. Everyone knew RM has the pace to really hurt Bayern yet they decided to play a really high line fron the beginning with all that tiki taka bullshit. #pepout
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I can't believe it either, this is a CL SF. Never seen the like. Worst tactics ever seen from a top side at this level considering who the opponent is, it's absolutely suicidal.
 
Oggmonster said:
In fairness it wasn't that brilliant in his last season at Barca either. They struggled in plenty of competitions. I think he's a good manager still but it does seem he's pretty set on his sytem and won't change it at all, not really the sign of a brilliant manager in my opinion.

Both his managerial jobs he's inherited brilliant teams, I'd give him his credit and say he improved Barca a lot (but the foundations were in place) I'm yet to be convinced at Bayern personally. Football does adapt but it seems like Guardiola hasn't done that yet and it looks like it has backfired miserably here.
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Sometimes you need a good hammering in football to learn from your mistakes. I think we got that from Milan with Kaka and it showed to Fergie that you have to be defensive in Europe or you'll get punished. Pep will be back next year.

Sorry but I don't get these posts either? Moyes knows more about football management than anyone on this forum yet has been questioned (rightfully) since day 1. But because it's Guardiola and it's pretty clear it's gone wrong in this game no one is allowed to question him because of previous success?
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Not debating at all he's got it wrong tonight. I'm debating that tiki taka and Guardiola aren't done at the highest level.
 
Dante/Boateng are fairly mediocre centre backs and constantly exposed in this system. Both lack pace and constantly make poor decisions. Bayern should be looking to Koscielny or his type in the summer.
 
Brwned said:
He's obviously not doing a poor job or anything but he's taken unnecessary risks when trying to implement a new style and has somehow managed to make an incredibly versatile side into a largely one-dimensional team. Part of that is down to Ribéry losing form at a key moment but part of it is down to trying silly things like playing fullbacks in centre mid. It looks like Balu was right in the beginning and Guardiola has taken this team back rather than forward.
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To be fair, it was always a thankless task taking over after a treble win. Problem though is that he has clearly tried to turn Bayern into a possession hogging team when they had so many other flavors last year. Also Messi is what made Barca great and was more often that not THE difference maker. You are never going to have him at Bayern so following that system to tee with Lahm taking over the Biscuits role and Thiago/Kroos for Iniesta/Xavi was never going to work.
 
bucky said:
Javi Martinez is completely wasted there this season.
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I think he could leave soon. We should defo bid. He can't play as a CB in Pep's team since his pace is not suited for a high line. As a MF Pep clearly does not fancy him to play as a single pivot in 3 man MF.
 
iBoss said:
Dante and Boateng are over rated IMO. However, it has more to do with the lack of protection they get. Even we got at Bayern.
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I am starting to think Martinez was possibly the biggest reason why they looked so good last season.
 
For people complaining about the lack of a plan B, isn't that exactly what the purchase of Lewandowski is?
 
Blasphemy said:
Sometimes you need a good hammering in football to learn from your mistakes. I think we got that from Milan with Kaka and it showed to Fergie that you have to be defensive in Europe or you'll get punished. Pep will be back next year.



Not debating at all he's got it wrong tonight. I'm debating that tiki taka and Guardiola aren't done at the highest level.
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Fair comments. I'm not for 1 second suggesting he's done at a top level. I think he improved Barca a lot and the football was very good under him (best team I've ever seen) it just seemed when the wheels slightly came off he had no plan B, which looks the case here.

I hope he does learn form this and you make a good point re Milan. He's got the makings of a brilliant team if you add Lewandowski to this team, they'll still be about next season.

I suppose part of the problem when you dominate a league so much is you never really learn from mistkes as you suggest. Even their losses in recent weeks have meant nothing as the league was won. This will be a big reality check for management and players.
 
iBoss said:
They already have Mandzukic.
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He's nowhere near good enough for this level. Tiki taka requires a world class goalscorer. At Barca they had Eto'o and Messi. Mandzukic is nowhere near that class, neither is Lewandowski tbf but he's a big upgrade.
 
Martinez was brilliant the few times I saw him last season. Would love him here.
 
Sixpence said:
I can't believe it either, this is a CL SF. Never seen the like. Worst tactics ever seen from a top side at this level considering who the opponent is, it's absolutely suicidal.
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Thing is, I would understand if they were 3 behind but it was only 1-0, 1 goal at home and you're back in it. No chance for them now which is a shame as I prefer them to Madrid.
 
Blasphemy said:
He's nowhere near good enough for this level. Tiki taka requires a world class goalscorer. At Barca they had Eto'o and Messi. Mandzukic is nowhere near that class, neither is Lewandowski tbf but he's a big upgrade.
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Mandzukic is a good striker. Lewandowski would not have changed anything in this Real game. That is hardly a plan b, they are similar players.
 
Guardiola's beloved system being shown up once again. Two Champions League semi-finals in a row the 'tiki-taka' system has been ripped to shreds by pace and penetration.

Explosive football 11-0 Tiki-Taka

(And there's still forty minutes left here!)
 
Kag said:
This is true. They do play differently. I preferred the brutality of last season's Bayern, but Guardiola it still doing a good job. There's some fair points in this thread, but a lot of it is an overreaction. They are still a cracking team, just a bit of naivety and the obvious case of playing against players like Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale has undone them here.
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Personally it feels irritating watching a team that was so close to ideal, when Pep has if anything moved them away from that.

Bayern last season were just great at everything. The physical game, counter attacking, set pieces, defending, crosses, through balls, possession. They had a dozen ways to win. Pep seems to have ignored half of them in order to focus on death by possession, and in doing so they seem weaker than they were.

That's not to say that this German version of tiki-taka is not brilliant most of the time. But they still feel better at one thing and worse at several. Hard to quantify whether that means better or worse overall, but still, it feels rather indulgent.

Also, I think at this point we can say he's not right for United. There was a feeling that Barca may have played as they did at their peak because of the demands of the club, the league and the players they had available, and that if Pep came to United he might try some English variation that was fitting for us. However it seems clear now he will take the blueprint with him, and its not one that United fans would enjoy week after week (most of us anyway). Take over from Wenger at Arsenal maybe?
 
sizzling sausages said:
There is not much difference in style between Lewandowski and Mandzukic IMO.
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About double the amount of goals a season is a big difference. Lewandowski has pace, a great touch and scores a lot of goals. None of those things are true of Mandzukic.
 
People need to remember that with LvG we are practically getting Pep's football. Everyone who is hoping that we will play some attractive face paced football next season should hope that we will go for another manager.
 
I think people are exaggerating a lot here. The possibly two biggest stars of previous years, Robben and Ribery, are on their way down rather than upwards. It was always going to be a challenge if any of them slipped down in skill or form like it is for any team if their top players falls in form/decline.

For wingers who build their game around pace and dribbling being above 30 and still competing to be the best wingers in the game is very rare.
 
nahealai said:
Guardiola's beloved system being shown up once again. Two Champions League semi-finals in a row the 'tiki-taka' system has been ripped to shreds by pace and penetration.

Explosive football 11-0 Tiki-Taka

(And there's still forty minutes left here!)
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I don't think beating Barcelona without Messi or a manager means all that much.
 
Blasphemy said:
He's nowhere near good enough for this level. Tiki taka requires a world class goalscorer. At Barca they had Eto'o and Messi. Mandzukic is nowhere near that class, neither is Lewandowski tbf but he's a big upgrade.
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If tiki taka requires a world class goal scorer, it is only more damning for Pep to play this way when he knows he doesn't have the resources.

FFS he destroyed the very style of Bayern that ripped apart Barcelona playing in Peps image!
 
Blasphemy said:
About double the amount of goals a season is a big difference. Lewandowski has pace, a great touch and scores a lot of goals. None of those things are true of Mandzukic.
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Maybe in the previous years. Mandzukic has got 1 goal more than Lewandowski this season. And it's the first one in which they have similar number of games. Lewandowski had much more in the last few years.
 
crappycraperson said:
Lahm time as in MF is extremely overrated. He has done well but that was in a Bayern steam rolling everyone. He is not that big of an upgrade over Martinez anyway, if anything latter is better when it comes to shielding the defense.
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It did allow Pep to play that ludicrous and indulgent 2-3-2-3 formation against us.
 
This isn't even tiki taka he played with Barcelona. Barcelona never crossed the ball so much.
 
MDFC Manager said:
If tiki taka requires a world class goal scorer, it is only more damning for Pep to play this way when he knows he doesn't have the resources.

FFS he destroyed the very style of Bayern that ripped apart Barcelona playing in Peps image!
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Damning? They won the league and are in the CL semi final. They're losing to the most expensive side of all time managed by a world class manager.

You can lose to a team like that without your entire ethos being bad.
 
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