The players failed Moyes in the same way a corpse fails the man standing with the bloodied knife and the panicked look in his eyes.
United linked with van Gaal in the meeja
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The players failed Moyes in the same way a corpse fails the man standing with the bloodied knife and the panicked look in his eyes.
I don't know, I think it's more complicated than that. Moyes has to take the ultimate responsibility for this season but the players don't come out of it unscathed.
I think most Bayern fans would consider van Gaal a step more obsessed with possession than Guardiola has been this season. van Gaal has no, one glove fits them all style, but instead acts completely different. His Bayern side was very obsessed with possession at times, more so than Guardiola - but his NL/AZ side is/was absolutely fantastic and his time at Ajax was beyond unbelievably good.
I don't think his philosophy regarding how direct/penetrative his possession should be is strict by any means. His best player material may have been at Bayern, but there is also where he showed least penetrative/directness in his game.
All we know is he will play possession football, if it is the dire and even worse than Guardiola or direct and penetrative is still to be seen. Either way it will get the results if the players and boards backs him, that is a very sure thing.
Well pu...no, that's a load of shite.
Giggs: "Van Gaal has got a brilliant reputation and fantastic pedigree
I don't see cause to scathe them. Unless we think it was either remarkable coincidence or an astonishing act of unified treachery, how else can you explain so many looking so crap for so long?
If we had a few players not pulling their weight, sure, but when it's the whole team?
Can't wait for this now.
So while the last guy was reluctant to break out the balls for training sessions, the new guy even whips 'em out for team talks? That's gotta be progress, right?
Only DDG in the opinion of Giggs played to their potential this year. I'd argue Rooney and Adnan had good seasons also.
Maybe they are not good enough. Something said about several of them before this season but this season they deserved the tag.
The looks on the players faces (for instance at 30 seconds)
Anyone who has ever played decent level football at even youth level can relate. "feck feck feck, keep your head down, don't draw attention, feck feck he's losing it just don't look at me"
Haha! SO True! When the Coach goes nuts you just shut up and look at the grass. If you get caught in the crossfire, you'd be murdered. Haha! That takes me back
Van Gaal's football at the end of the first year for Bayern just has been great - you have to look where they came from. In the second year he seldom could play in a wish formation because of all the injuries.
Van Gaal always told that the development and implementation of his system comes in different steps. Yes, it was very static in the second year and there were problems - but it was not the finished product. There have to be a lot rules first and that has to go into the player's blood before you maybe can give more freedom. Like this it was Heynckes who added to the system. But - van Gaal did the basics - and he just is a great teacher.
Maybe I can show you the match they played two weeks after van Gaal went - against Schalke. Then Jonker, his assitant, had taken over. But the system is van Gaals. Jonker let the offensives more freedom.
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If LVG is our next manager there are going to be some seismic changes coming to the team and the club.
If you have had a coach at youth level within the last 5 years who spoke to the team or yourself in that manner then they were either a dumbarse coach or completely clueless as to how to work with youth level players. The hairdryer is long gone in youth level coaching but if it still exists in some places its a sign of a coach who has been left behind by coaching improvements and really doesnt know what they are doing.The looks on the players faces (for instance at 30 seconds)
Anyone who has ever played decent level football at even youth level can relate. "feck feck feck, keep your head down, don't draw attention, feck feck he's losing it just don't look at me"
every single pundit in germany saw, that Ribery/Robben needed more freedom and van gaal still didnt change this. It was mental. Its not like his whole system was shit, but its always about details and he got most of them wrong.
We played about 20-80x the same build up each game, near the center line: CB short pass to DM; pass to fullback; pass to winger along the line. The winger was about 20meter in the opponent´s half, direct at the line and could decide if he starts dribbling against 2+ player or if he turns around and plays the ball back to the full back, who played than again to the CB => DM => fullback on the other side => winger. Over and over the same.
In the end almost every side in the Bundesliga started to play 2-4 players against Robben/Ribery. It was so easy, because we never used the space that opened.
The benefit of his system was, that once we were ahead the opponent was screwed. Be barely lost, when we were a goal up. The downside is, that we relied heavily on individual brilliance or sheer luck to score the first goal.
In the beginning Heynckes made just a few little changes and the whole system already looked way better. Over his two years, he changed a lot.
Holland plays way better than we ever did, which is surprising. But its hard to compare mangers of national sides and clubs sides anyway, so I dont really know how important this is. Even Löw gets praised to be a great coach, even so he had a piss poor career as a manager for clubs.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9294059/giggs-in-spotlight
Good to see he also seems to have the backing of Giggs. I wouldn't want a club legend to have problems with our potential new manager. That's the last thing we need right now.
A second week in the spotlight for Ryan Giggs and a second week of questions about another manager.
Last time round at Carrington he nimbly dodged questions about the departure of David Moyes, now the focus has moved onto Manchester United's succession planning with Louis Van Gaal the overwelming favourite to jump into the Old Trafford hotseat and although Giggs is perhaps his closest rival he's well aware of the Dutchman's credentials.
Giggs said: "He's got a brilliant reputation, successful manager in different countries and obviously he's taken Holland to the World Cup. Yeah, he's got a fantastic pedigree."
Louis van Gaal
Good to see he also seems to have the backing of Giggs. I wouldn't want a club legend to have problems with our potential new manager. That's the last thing we need right now.
Ed Chamberlain looks like he's on the toilet.
I wonder if at club level it might be because a coach doesnt have players available to implement the tactics he is wanting to use but at international level he ends up with a big pool of players to find the right ones to make his tactics work?
Every pundit... We had problems against teams like Hannover and Dortmund in that season - the problems before where more caused by injuries - and it was exactly that teams that caused us problems in the first year with Heynckes, too, we did not have a solution then - and we only got over this problems in 2012/13 (and have the problems again this year...)
I like that article of the German zonal marking of July 2011 - after the 2010/11 season. Very interesting. Title is - van Gaal the misunderstood. The text is to long to translate it in google translator and put it here. But I guess it will not be a problem for any reader of this post to do it himself.
http://spielverlagerung.de/2011/07/05/louis-van-gaal-der-missverstandene/
About his playing philosophies and his systems - especially at Bayern. And the problems. The interesting is that they were right with their outlook at the end of the article...
Maybe we're thinking of different things re the word "youth". I can remember one specific instance when I was either 15 or 16. It was a training session few days before we left for provincial championships and we were arsing about after an undefeated season (predictably, we fell flat and didn't make it out of the group). The coach laid into us for thinking we were the shit, which we definitely deserved. Nothing at all wrong with giving players that age a hiding. Don't tell me you think the 16 year olds in United's system haven't been yelled at. Come on now.
Haha! SO True! When the Coach goes nuts you just shut up and look at the grass. If you get caught in the crossfire, you'd be murdered. Haha! That takes me back
Funnily enough it makes me long for those days
Back before worrying about jobs and such, when your biggest concern was football and whether that girl in math class would go out with you.
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I cant agree. Your first comment explains it all. "Anyone who has ever played decent level football at even youth level can relate. "feck feck feck, keep your head down, don't draw attention, feck feck he's losing it just don't look at me"" Are the players trying to solve the problem or work out how to improve the problem?. No, they are as you are saying trying stay out of the attention of the coach who has lost the plot. Thats just not effective.
Also your comment about " Nothing at all wrong with giving players that age a hiding" indicates a complete and utter lack of knowledge or understanding of how kids that age can be motivated, learn, develop and improve. Putting aside the kids side of things, how many people stay in jobs where their employers treat them in that manner.
Things have moved on and forward considerably in the last decade or so.
Martin Demichelis - who left Bayern because of problems with van Gaal - gave an interview in the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...michelis-manchester-city-everton-massive-game
http://www.theguardian.com/football...michelis-manchester-city-everton-massive-game
to be honest, I just saw a couple of their matches, but they looked more direct and more pragmatic. Actually like a "normal" 433 with some emphasis on possession.
Bayern asked him if he wants more/other players but he just wanted Braafheid, Pranijc. Robben joined a bit later, because the start in the season was so bad, that he was in danger to get sacked after about 10 games.
Robben and Ribery were both injured quite a bit and whenever one of them were missing, we were in trouble. The subs just couldnt dribble past 1-4 people, so we had almost zero creativity. I doubt that Holland has better players than we had. I think he is just a bit more pragmatic. They have Robben but they certainly dont have a second winger with Ribery´s quality.
Bayern played great when they were ahead; Robben+Ribery also just outclassed their opponents. Both had about 50 scorer points in 4000 minutes with van Gaal in charge.
the most important sentence is: "Im Positionsspiel soll der vertikale Pass normalerweise nur erfolgen, wenn eine hohe Erfolgsrate besteht, ansonsten wird der Ball horizontal gespielt."
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Vertical passes shall be played only when the success rate is high; else the ball is played horizontally.
that sums up the way Bayern played.
A bunch of 16 year olds horsing around during training, the coach got us all together and got us in line. The problem isn't something to be solved, other than getting a bit of focus and discipline back. It's not like "Well we keep conceding goals on our left, so feck YOU LEFT BACK!!!". It was more of a "You think this is a joke? You think you're great because you pissed a piss easy league? You think you won't find tougher opponents down the road? Get yourselves together and train properly, or we'll be found out". What do you expect the coach to say "Ok guys could you please put in a bit more effort here? We need to train well or else we're not going to do well this weekend and we don't want that now do we?".
a group of adolescent males, on a football pitch as part of a team, need a bit of aggression and authority. It's an effective motivational strategy. You can bet we sobered up, quit with the fancy flicks, put our heads down and gave 100% that day because we understood where the coach's frustration was coming from.
People in jobs is a different story. In that setting while there are superiors and people in authority, all levels of the organization are adults and deserving of an equal respect. Football (or any sport) is a different story.
Does anyone else think that a shit WC will lead to opinions being set in stone for next season? Van Gaal admittedly is not widely known about, mainly among younger people anyway because his best moments happened a while ago. I feel that if Holland have a terrible WC the press may start to question how good he really is before he even starts. We've already seen Ibrahimovic be one of these players. Thought to be overrated because of his performances against English teams, we've even seen a bit of that with Cavani after the Chelsea games. Equally, if they have a good WC then I think he may well be hailed as some sort of genius. It will be interesting to see how the press here cover Holland games anyway.
Why?
Came across an interview with Van Gaal (I think while he was coach of AZ) that I've not seen posted. Apologies if it has been.
Is a very long pdf, I don't think many will make it all the way through..
http://jeddavies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Louis-Van-Gaal-interview.pdf
Snippets
Is a very long pdf, I don't think many will make it all the way through..
http://jeddavies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Louis-Van-Gaal-interview.pdf
Snippets
Because sport functions in a much different manner than most occupations. It is driven significantly by adrenaline and aggression. In a typical office setting, aggression is generally counterproductive. If a boss yells at people, it is likely to engender resentment rather than motivation, because the work being done is usually not made any more efficient by aggression or adrenaline. Reasoning, logic, calculation and efficiency are far more important. Writing a report, calculating finances, managing shipments or whatever else are fundamentally different than playing sports, because they utilize different cognitive processes.
In sport (generally, something like pool, darts or golf is less applicable), physical capability, instinct and determination are primary mental processes. Even an intelligent player not noted for his running, say Xavi, is still not thinking in the same sense that an account manager at work is thinking. Entirely different areas of the brain are being used. The thinking is faster, more primal, and in most cases subconscious. In a physical struggle such as either American or association football, hockey, basketball etc, calm reasoning (such as would be appropriate for an office) loses efficacy because it doesn't speak to the mental processes being used on the field (pitch, ice, whatever). A more primal form of communication is required at times.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/van-gaal-philosophy-tactics.389320/
Posted here mate with some other articles you may find interesting.
So who is our left-footed centre-back next season if van Gaal comes?
I heard before he strongly favours a left-footer as the left of the central pairing and Martin Demichelis says in the Guardian today:
"All my years at Bayern I played on the left side of central defence, like I do now at City, but I am not a left-footed player. Van Gaal became convinced that the position demanded a left-footed player, so suddenly I was out of favour. I felt I had done a good job for the club and played well enough to prove his theory wrong but he wanted to stick to it."
I suppose Evans is the choice from the players we've already got, but will van Gaal want to get someone else?
I heard before he strongly favours a left-footer as the left of the central pairing and Martin Demichelis says in the Guardian today:
"All my years at Bayern I played on the left side of central defence, like I do now at City, but I am not a left-footed player. Van Gaal became convinced that the position demanded a left-footed player, so suddenly I was out of favour. I felt I had done a good job for the club and played well enough to prove his theory wrong but he wanted to stick to it."
I suppose Evans is the choice from the players we've already got, but will van Gaal want to get someone else?
Fortunately pro sport and in general sport around the world has moved on and forward from these sorts of beliefs. The reason there have been such substantial improvements in human performance in sport over the last 3-4 decades have come about because "reasoning, logic, calculation and efficiency" have been applied. Countless studies, measurement of methods and performance show that what you are saying is a thing of the past.
So you're saying that any time Ferguson raised his voice in the dressing room he was employing a management tool without value?
My original comments were relative to the LVG video and how you related it to your experience at youth level. I pointed out using your comment about players wanting to hide that it wasnt effective. LVG isnt just raising his voice in that video, he is displaying very real anger and the players faces reflect that. I was making the point that at youth level this sort of approach isnt appropriate because it goes against what we now know through years of study and measurement with respect to how young adults learn and process information.
Fergie has himself talked about how the hair dryer was used far less in recent years. That video of LVG was how many years old?. The last decade especially has seen many improvements in sports science, from the physical through to the mental side of things.
I totally disagree with your belief that the sports environment should be treated differently from a professional work environment. Again, countless studies, measurement and performance show this.
At youth level if players collectively are not applying themselves to training its an indication that the training exercises, methods and communication are a problem.
The bolded was more for comic relief than anything. Not that it isn't part of the feeling, but the overall one was, in that specific case, to remind the players to stay grounded. Sometimes if adolescents aren't applying themselves it's to do with the nature of adolescence, rather than a weakness in the training. In that particular case, the training was fine. It was just a case of young adults suffering a lack of concentration that is a natural part of that stage in life.
I'm not advocating the old school ideas of running endless laps for slight lapses, continuous yelling and what not. Those are clearly what would be described lately as dinosaur methods. However sometimes athletes need to be jarred back into reality, rather than coaxed. A balanced (and individual) approach is probably always what will yield the best results.
I would argue that there isn't a single footballer in the EPL today who wouldn't agree that a coach's harsh words helped them at some stage of their career. In fact I think basically anyone who has played sports would agree with that. But we've derailed the thread enough, let's just agree to disagree.
Didn't Fergie give Januzaj a bollocking after a poor performance in the FA youth cup last year against Burnley? That turned out well.
I think a good telling off is needed at times and it is the right balance between the two that needs to be found.
Nice read. Thanks for sharing.
So when does it become official, thought it was speculated he'd sign by Friday? As he'd changed something to do with the Dutch squad on the same day!
Next week is what the rumours say, right?
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