the way we've played all year has been shit or bust. No point changing the plan now.
Liverpool
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I don't think anyone's suggesting they should change the plan, but that's because it's a plan that's generally won them games. Points are what matter for Liverpool here as they're unlikely to be able to make up the goal difference.
Exactly. It's why the criticism Rodgers received for not setting up for a draw was ridiculous.
Barney's hopefulness regarding goal difference relies on a few things:
- Liverpool need to score loads of goals. They've proven they can do this, but maybe not quite to the extent require here.
- City must only win by a single goal in each of their games. Something that's only happened 6 times in 25 wins this season.
- Liverpool must not concede. Something that's only happened 3 times when they've scored 4+. They've also conceded 3 on 3 of these occasions.
who knows what is likely? Go for it on your own terms and if you mess up you only have yourself to blame should it go wrong.
That's just silly talk. Managers cut their cloth to measure. Rodgers make a mistake. No surprising when he is only 6 years into management and in his first title race. He will make plenty of mistakes next season as well. That what happens with inexperienced managers.
you say city stats show city only winning by 1 for a few games is rare but you want us to wait for city to drop points. I'd much prefer we go all out and lose than play it safe.
I don't think he should have set out to play for a draw, but he certainly shouldn't have set out to play as openly as he did. Everyone knew how Chelsea were going to play, and everyone knew that counter-attacks were going to be their best hope of scoring. Despite this, Rodgers set his team out in the exact way he's set them out against every other team this season, which happens to be in a way that is very open to counter attacks. It might have worked had they scored in the opening 5 minutes or so, but that was very unlikely to happen against a Mourinho team. I don't know whether he was taking this gamble, but either way, Liverpool's tactics against Chelsea were extremely naive and showed Rodgers up for having no Plan B.
Spot on.
Put it this way, when City have won, they've only won by one goal on 6 occasions. They haven't won on 11. They're more likely to not win, than they are to win by only one goal. If it's to come to goal difference, the task Liverpool are faced with seems pretty insurmountable.
He didn't go all out until the 2nd half when we were trailing.
Play it safe? I don't think anybody is saying Liverpool should play it safe and go just for 1-0 wins in the last 2 win.s People are saying that if both clubs win their last 2 games (likely), the chances of Liverpool making up 12 goals minimum on City is almost impossible. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try of course
Agreed - they nearly blew it today, and they've now got two games in a week with injury questions over at least two of their best players. I just don't like the way City have been playing, nor have confidence in the way their players have been carrying themselves in games.
This isn't over yet.
not at all. he went with what has worked all season. He may be inexperienced but everyone has to start somewhere
How did I not cop that you were a Liverpoo supporter? Liverpool and a Dub? Are your parents cousins?
Last time we won the league we beat Palace 9-0. Just saying like.
Palace have conceded 43 goals this season. Liverpool have conceded 46. Just saying like.
i know what is likely. My point is that if we score a shed load its back in our control. Right now i couldn't care less about what is likely. What i want is a demolition job done i the next two games. Its too much to hope for though.
says the laois man!! Ha
I agree. His positives have far outweighed his negatives this season.
On another note Liverpool winning the league and Liverpool showing up at the Aviva with the PL would be sickening for us Irish reds(they play rovers their in a friendly on the 14th may). The Irish media would be unbearable.
Good one.
this season will stand to him. To be honest i don't blame him for not trying pragmatic tactics as i don't think we have the defensive discipline for it. Maybe with a few signings he will consider parking the bus every now and again.
United at Anfield?
this kind of comment always makes me laugh. You think the last 25 years has been a bed of roses for Irish Liverpool fans. Should it happen suck it up ye big blouse.
i think he did it then alright but when he looked at it hethought it better to rely on his attack than defence to kill games. in fairness he's done well.
wheres the white text?
You started with 4-3-3 for crying out loud, it couldn't have been much more open. You had Allen, Gerrard and Lucas in midfield, only one of which is defensively minded, and Coutinho, Sterling and Suarez up top, none of whom are defensively minded. You can say you've not got the players to play any differently, but even then, that's down to the manager.
It hasn't worked all season though. It's worked for most of the season, but in games when Liverpool haven't been winning at half-time, or haven't been winning by much, they've looked shaky. It was extremely likely that this would be the case against Chelsea, yet Rodgers decided to play the same thing again, and it cost you.
Liverpool have won 25 games this year, drawn 5, lost 6. Of the 25 that they've won, they were leading at half time in 21. They've been leading at half time 24 times this season. They were only a goal up in the 3 games in which they didn't go on to win, and in all instances they ended up drawing. In fact, of the 11 matches in which Liverpool led by a single goal at half time, they only managed to increase the margin of victory in 4.
Of the 12 occasions in which Liverpool have reached half-time not winning, they've won just 4. They've gone in behind 5 times, only managing to salvage a single point (against Villa), and gone in level 7 times, winning 4, drawing 2, and losing 1. There have only been 3 games this season in which Liverpool have reached half time without scoring, once at 0-0, and twice 1-0 down. On all three occasions, they lost.
All season Liverpool have relied on going in at half time ahead, and when they haven't, they've generally looked clueless. Considering they've basically played the same tactic all season, it might have been prudent to switch it up a bit against a team that basically had the perfect foil to it.
No, it was a genuinely witty comeback. I'm lmfao here. You're hilarious. Dublin wit n all dah, buh.
I don't think Liverpool are out of it by any means because I'm not totally convinced that City will win their remaining two games. I just think it's ridiculous that we're entertaining the idea that Liverpool might win the league on goal difference. They're either going to win it on points, or not at all.
Liverpool won't win it on GD (unless it's beating Chelsea to it on GD). Two games left each, with City having the easier of the two and a nine goal head start. I have a friend who genuinely believes it can be done - because you score a ton of goals. I remind him that we've scored the same amount, with a heavier percentage of them coming at home. I think if Liverpool go for it in a silly manner against Palace they could well drop points - Palace have only conceded 20 goals at home all season, and a few of them came before Pulis turned up.
Edit: I should add, I think City are capable of dropping points - so Liverpool aren't out of it by any stretch.
Edit: I should add, I think City are capable of dropping points - so Liverpool aren't out of it by any stretch.
easy to say in hindsight but conversely you would hammer Brendan if he adopted pragmatic tactics and lost too. You mentioned earlier that Liverpool should adopt the likely outcome so based on your stats what was the likely outcome based on Liverpool's season as a whole for that game?
lovely hurling. nice to see you back. what happened you anyway?
Football rivalry would be death if a United fan didnt find Liverpool winning the league pretty hard to take.
Said on here a while ago that City would win it and I'm sticking with that.
not saying it will happen at all. i am saying its the way i would want to win it though and not have to rely on a mistake
are we rivals again?
Given that Liverpool have played the same way all season, a loss. Chelsea generally don't concede in the opening half hour, which is when Liverpool tend to score, and Chelsea tend to score in the second half, which is when Liverpool tend to concede.
Rodgers has been hammered as it is precisely because he didn't switch it up. Had he not afforded Chelsea so much freedom to counter-attack, but Liverpool had lost because of a set-piece or something, he wouldn't have had half the stick he's received. As it was, he went shit or bust at the start, and it didn't work. Rather than telling them to watch for the counter, given that Chelsea had managed a couple of decent opportunities, he let them keep throwing bodies forward, hoping to get a lead before half time. It ultimately cost them. One thing that's incredibly important to remember here is that Liverpool didn't need the win. There was absolutely no reason for the back line to be so far up when Chelsea scored their first. Sitting deeper wouldn't have been playing for the draw, it would have been playing sensibly.
This makes literally no sense. You're essentially saying that you want City to win their last two games.
where did i say i want city to win? What i said was i want Liverpool to win by a shed load. As for your analysis of the Chelsea game i think the whole game boiled down to one mistake. We gave Chelsea a goal at a bad time and gave them impetus. I don't think Brendan deserves stick but it will build his character.
I said some untoward things about Hillsborough & Heysel. Didn't think they were too bad but some people did.
And I'm saying that Liverpool winning by a shed-load won't matter if City win their games because the shed won't be big enough. You said
"i am saying its the way i would want to win it though and not have to rely on a mistake", which I took to mean that you wanted to win it on goal difference rather than by City dropping points, because that's sort of still in your hands. Which of course is ridiculous when you could just, you know, win it on points.
The game absolutely did not boil down to one mistake. Chelsea had a couple of good chances before the mistake. Chances that they were afforded because of Liverpool's tactics. The mistake was also so costly because of the tactics. As I said, there was absolutely no need for the back line to be that high, and they were only that high because Rodgers had Liverpool desperately looking for a lead at half time. They didn't need to win the game, a draw would have been fine, yet Rodgers had them playing like 3 points were vital.
He's worked wonders this season, you can't deny that, but he was shown up against Chelsea, and the defense of him and his tactics is frankly quite strange. The whole world and his dog knew how Mourinho was going to set up, and the whole world and his dog knew that the way Mourinho was going to set up was the perfect counter for Rodger's usual tactics. Despite this, Rodgers played his usual tactics. Any stick he gets for doing that is very much deserved.
One thing I will add is that next season is going to be a whole different ball game for Liverpool, and they aren't going to be able to rely on shit or bust every game to get them near the top. They've been a bit fortunate this season with no European football to distract them/tire them out mid-week, and United being so off the pace, City and Chelsea not being quite on top form, and Spurs and Arsenal being even more wet lettuce than usual. Rodgers has done brilliantly to take advantage of that and put Liverpool in a position that I don't think anyone thought possible back in August, but his tactic has been sussed and he needs to do some serious strengthening over the summer if they're hoping for a repeat performance next season.