Liverpool

Prince MAS-D | #LFC ‏@iPrinceMarcus 6m
1966: Austria won Eurovision, England won World Cup, Liverpool won Division 1, Atlético Madrid won La Liga, Real Madrid won European Cup.

It was after we finished 7th too.

Surely not? If we win the league tomorrow I'm going right down to the bookies and lumping on this.
 
Last edited:
Vanrouge said:
No, we won't. If we come from seventh or sixth to second next season, we won't be particularly proud. Encouraged, maybe. You might, because you're small time, but we are United.
Click to expand...
But United's context is completely different.
 
I just don't think arguing about debatable subjects (And focusing on Liverpool's superiority while you're at it) on an United Forum is such a bright idea.
 
So apparently Suarez has an 82mil release clause...

If I were a betting man i'd say Real will activate it this summer.
 
BarneyLFC said:
If you were coming from 7th you'd feel the exact same way.
Click to expand...

No we wouldn't. We are going to finish seventh this season. If we are leading the PL with 3 games to go and throw it away at home next season I would be bitterly disappointed. Devastated actually, but then I suppose that comes from the complacency of being so used to success. I can imagine for you guys, by now, even being the bridesmaid feels like an achievement.
 
Well,

I for one can see Liverpool drop off next season now! Why?

Real will sign Suarez and this wonderful season they are having will be a blip

http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/10/real-...offer-for-liverpool-star-luis-suarez-4723283/

Crap paper, fair enough but this will only gain momentum as the summer arrives, gain intensity during the world cup where he will score and then reach its inevitable end when he is at the Bernabau playing keepy ups in front of the world media and fans!
 
FortBoyard said:
No we wouldn't. We are going to finish seventh this season. If we are leading the PL with 3 games to go and throw it away at home next season I would be bitterly disappointed. Devastated actually, but then I suppose that comes from the complacency of being so used to success. I can imagine for you guys, by now, even being the bridesmaid feels like an achievement.
Click to expand...

If for the next three/four seasons we are out of the CL, and barely look like making the champions league much less a title challenge then yes, all of us would be ecstatic finishing second. Am baffled at people who say liverpool have bottled the title challenge as well, I think their form for the second half has been something crazy like 14/15 wins, with 1 loss and 1 draw. That form is unsustainable and finishing second is a huge achievement for them.
 
What a ridiculous argument from Barney

It ignores Fergies greatest achievement - the achievement for me which marks him out from others

Not just to build one great team from underachieving players....

But to rebuild - in the end I think Fergie build 3 great teams - all in the face of Blackburns spending, a great Arsenal team and then the Roman Abramovich and Sheik Mansour eras - despite at times being outspent heavily by the latter two trusting in Youth and getting the best out of the players he did

It's slightly frustrating as had we perhaps bought 1 marquee signing after Ronaldo left this could have made the difference in seasons where we lost the league by a point, and goal difference in Fergies final 5 years

No one in England can match that achievement - sustained success from one man despite the challenges of the modern game

That's why Fergie is the greatest
 
MJJ said:
If for the next three/four seasons we are out of the CL, and barely look like making the champions league much less a title challenge then yes, all of us would be ecstatic finishing second. Am baffled at people who say liverpool have bottled the title challenge as well, I think their form for the second half has been something crazy like 14/15 wins, with 1 loss and 1 draw. That form is unsustainable and finishing second is a huge achievement for them.
Click to expand...

It's a dramatic improvement. It's not an 'achievement' in any meaningful sense. Winning the league would be. 7th or 2nd it's much the same when people look back in the history books.
 
MJJ said:
If for the next three/four seasons we are out of the CL, and barely look like making the champions league much less a title challenge then yes, all of us would be ecstatic finishing second. Am baffled at people who say liverpool have bottled the title challenge as well, I think their form for the second half has been something crazy like 14/15 wins, with 1 loss and 1 draw. That form is unsustainable and finishing second is a huge achievement for them.
Click to expand...

Come on….You can't say "a team is bound to slip up" simply because they have been winning so long… Each match is an individual outcome. They have a week between games, playing well, can see the finish line (with 4 games remaining they are leading by three points). Then comes:

A) Tactical implosion against Chelsea - We can all argue till the cows come home whether it was a bottle job or not. My personal opinion is that after they go 1-0 down it was a complete bottle job as they pretty much created nothing and looked panic, desperate, and bereft of ideas.. which is contrary to how brilliant they looked in attack the last few months. To me, this suggests that they were overcome by the pressure of the occasion.

B) Losing a 3 goal lead at Palace - I don't think I need to argue this case much really. Absolutely collapse of epic proportions. Anyone can concede a goal at 3-0 up. It happens a lot. Perhaps even at 3-1 you could say they didn't have to be so cautious (we say so with hindsight). But at 3-2, they looked more at danger of conceding than at 3-0 or 3-1! They were all over the place, holes everywhere, players panicking. The defending for that third goal by Skrtel was just humorous. Complete choke by their players.
 
MJJ said:
:lol: Whats the difference?
Click to expand...

Well they certainly don't handout accolades for it. Second place doesn't come with a Silver medal in the league. It's not a tangible achievement, at the start of a league season everyone sets out with the possibility to win it, and all fall short bar one. Attaching a level of gravitas to being one of the also rans is over the top.

The reason why Liverpool fans are ecstatic is because they believe that this is the beginning of something, and they may achieve a trophy on the back of it. Many others think this was their best chance and they were very close but ultimately failed. Failed being the operative word. You are wording failure as a success, which reminds me of the infamous 'can a loss be a win?'.
 
17Larsson said:
I don't like belittling any European cup victory but beating four or five teams to win it is a damn site easier than what Ferguson had to do
Click to expand...

The CL differs from the old European Cup insofar that teams have to get through group stages before they take part in the knock-out rounds. Once it gets to that stage, it's pretty much the way it used to be. Now if I'm not mistaken, United only failed to get beyond the group stages on 2 or 3 occasions, therefore the other 16 or 17 seasons Fergie's United were in the same sort of position that Paisley's Liverpool were in, & yet they still failed to match, never mind beat, our record, despite having a lot more attempts. Lets not forget too, that United benefited from the new format. Had it been the old system, then the treble would never have been, & you'd have been competing in the UEFA Cup back in 1999.

It cuts both ways fellah.
 
redman5 said:
The CL differs from the old European Cup insofar that teams have to get through group stages before they take part in the knock-out rounds. Once it gets to that stage, it's pretty much the way it used to be. Now if I'm not mistaken, United only failed to get beyond the group stages on 2 or 3 occasions, therefore the other 16 or 17 seasons Fergie's United were in the same sort of position that Paisley's Liverpool were in, & yet they still failed to match, never mind beat, our record, despite having a lot more attempts. Lets not forget too, that United benefited from the new format. Had it been the old system, then the treble would never have been, & you'd have been competing in the UEFA Cup back in 1999.

It cuts both ways fellah.
Click to expand...

And over the last twenty or so years we would have had 13 opportunities to win it without 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place teams there to knock us out. I would like to see how may times a team that didn't win their league the previous year won the CL the following year. Changes everything. Much tougher, not sure how one could argue that.

Edit: Wow, on second read, what a silly silly comparison. In the knockout stages you often have three, Spanish teams, three English teams, and perhaps two Italian and two German teams… How is it "the same sort of position that Paisley's Liverpool were in"?
 
redman5 said:
The CL differs from the old European Cup insofar that teams have to get through group stages before they take part in the knock-out rounds. Once it gets to that stage, it's pretty much the way it used to be. Now if I'm not mistaken, United only failed to get beyond the group stages on 2 or 3 occasions, therefore the other 16 or 17 seasons Fergie's United were in the same sort of position that Paisley's Liverpool were in, & yet they still failed to match, never mind beat, our record, despite having a lot more attempts. Lets not forget too, that United benefited from the new format. Had it been the old system, then the treble would never have been, & you'd have been competing in the UEFA Cup back in 1999.

It cuts both ways fellah.
Click to expand...

This argument is just going around in circles. You can have your age old success. It was a great achievement well done. We will take our recent success which we can all remember so vividly. I wouldn't trade ours for yours, and I'm sure you will say the same. If you win the league today, congratulations, if you don't it will be interesting to see who gets the next one out of the two biggest clubs in England. Will it be the best English club of the last 25 years? Or the club down the road who were big for the 20 years before that. We shall see.
 
Tim Henman said:
Come on….You can't say "a team is bound to slip up" simply because they have been winning so long… Each match is an individual outcome. They have a week between games, playing well, can see the finish line (with 4 games remaining they are leading by three points). Then comes:

A) Tactical implosion against Chelsea - We can all argue till the cows come home whether it was a bottle job or not. My personal opinion is that after they go 1-0 down it was a complete bottle job as they pretty much created nothing and looked panic, desperate, and bereft of ideas.. which is contrary to how brilliant they looked in attack the last few months. To me, this suggests that they were overcome by the pressure of the occasion.

B) Losing a 3 goal lead at Palace - I don't think I need to argue this case much really. Absolutely collapse of epic proportions. Anyone can concede a goal at 3-0 up. It happens a lot. Perhaps even at 3-1 you could say they didn't have to be so cautious (we say so with hindsight). But at 3-2, they looked more at danger of conceding than at 3-0 or 3-1! They were all over the place, holes everywhere, players panicking. The defending for that third goal by Skrtel was just humorous. Complete choke by their players.
Click to expand...

Each match might be an individual outcome but over time things balance out and no side consistently outperforms itself. Thats why a league is considered to be a better judge of a team's quality than a cup and am sure if you compare wages/league positions they would be very closely related.

Look at the season as a whole, will tell you that liverpool shouldnt finish where they are going to, the fact that they did is in part down to luck and good management. Beating chelsea would always have been hard for them and there is no shame in losing to them. Crystal palace game I will acknowledge they really should have won but if city draw today only then you can lay the blame on them losing the title down to that match, otherwise it would have made zero difference.

FortBoyard said:
Well they certainly don't handout accolades for it. Second place doesn't come with a Silver medal in the league. It's not a tangible achievement, at the start of a league season everyone sets out with the possibility to win it, and all fall short bar one. Attaching a level of gravitas to being one of the also rans is over the top.

The reason why Liverpool fans are ecstatic is because they believe that this is the beginning of something, and they may achieve a trophy on the back of it. Many others think this was their best chance and they were very close but ultimately failed. Failed being the operative word. You are wording failure as a success, which reminds me of the infamous 'can a loss be a win?'.
Click to expand...

No they dont, every side has different targets. Everton wanted CL, Crystal palace,sunderland,etc wanted to avoid relegation unless you think they were aiming for the title as well. We were willing to accept a top four with moyes. It is a personal achievement for them, just like improving your grade in an exam would be for you or me or getting a promotion at work.
 
MJJ said:
Each match might be an individual outcome but over time things balance out and no side consistently outperforms itself. Thats why a league is considered to be a better judge of a team's quality than a cup and am sure if you compare wages/league positions they would be very closely related.

Look at the season as a whole, will tell you that liverpool shouldnt finish where they are going to, the fact that they did is in part down to luck and good management. Beating chelsea would always have been hard for them and there is no shame in losing to them. Crystal palace game I will acknowledge they really should have won but if city draw today only then you can lay the blame on them losing the title down to that match, otherwise it would have made zero difference.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree. City might well put 5 past West Ham today.. But if they knew they had to win their last two games (Liverpool had beaten Palace), then there would have been A LOT more pressure on them against Villa and West Ham. Sort of like when they knew they had to beat QPR in 2012 and they almost bottled it. That's the way sports work. You apply pressure for mistakes. I do accept the rest of your point too, slip ups are normal.. I just don't think we should factor in their previous 14 performances or whatever when looking at the Chelsea and Palace games. If anything it gives them a world of confidence and momentum. Look at the truly great sides (our 99 side, Arsenal's "invincibles"), they use their momentum and feel invincible.
 
MJJ said:
No they dont, every side has different targets. Everton wanted CL, Crystal palace,sunderland,etc wanted to avoid relegation unless you think they were aiming for the title as well. We were willing to accept a top four with moyes. It is a personal achievement for them, just like improving your grade in an exam would be for you or me or getting a promotion at work.
Click to expand...

This is becoming a semantic debate now but.... Of course every team starts the league with a possibility to win it. No matter how unlikely you view that to be. That is fact. Concrete. You don't believe Liverpool fans have reason to be disappointed this season? if they finish second? Those must have been tears of joy that we saw in the stands last Monday at Selhurst Park then?
 
FortBoyard said:
Well they certainly don't handout accolades for it. Second place doesn't come with a Silver medal in the league. It's not a tangible achievement, at the start of a league season everyone sets out with the possibility to win it, and all fall short bar one. Attaching a level of gravitas to being one of the also rans is over the top.

The reason why Liverpool fans are ecstatic is because they believe that this is the beginning of something, and they may achieve a trophy on the back of it. Many others think this was their best chance and they were very close but ultimately failed. Failed being the operative word. You are wording failure as a success, which reminds me of the infamous 'can a loss be a win?'.
Click to expand...

So if United fail to win the title next season on the last day, it'll be classed as an abject failure, & you won't take any encouragement from it ?
 
redman5 said:
So if United fail to win the title next season on the last day, it'll be classed as an abject failure, & you won't take any encouragement from it ?
Click to expand...

I would take encouragement, and it wouldn't be abject failure. But I would still be disappointed and think about what might have been. Are you telling me you are not going to be disappointed if you are pipped at the post?
 
FortBoyard said:
I would take encouragement, and it wouldn't be abject failure. But I would still be disappointed and think about what might have been. Are you telling me you are not going to be disappointed if you are pipped at the post?
Click to expand...

"Nah, cause we never expected it". I have heard that line so much the past two weeks. Seems to be their coping mechanism.
 
Tim Henman said:
Have to disagree. City might well put 5 past West Ham today.. But if they knew they had to win their last two games (Liverpool had beaten Palace), then there would have been A LOT more pressure on them against Villa and West Ham. Sort of like when they knew they had to beat QPR in 2012 and they almost bottled it. That's the way sports work. You apply pressure for mistakes. I do accept the rest of your point too, slip ups are normal.. I just don't think we should factor in their previous 14 performances or whatever when looking at the Chelsea and Palace games. If anything it gives them a world of confidence and momentum. Look at the truly great sides (our 99 side, Arsenal's "invincibles"), they use their momentum and feel invincible.
Click to expand...

Fair enough..that makes sens as well. Just one point though, our's and arsenal's side were good enough to win the title based on the quality of player something which I doubt applies to this liverpool side.
FortBoyard said:
This is becoming a semantic debate now but.... Of course every team starts the league with a possibility to win it. No matter how unlikely you view that to be. That is fact. Concrete. You don't believe Liverpool fans have reason to be disappointed this season? if they finish second? Those must have been tears of joy that we saw in the stands last Monday at Selhurst Park then?
Click to expand...

They will be disappointed and they will be happy with finishing second as well. Its basic human nature.
 
Tim Henman said:
"Nah, cause we never expected it". I have heard that line so much the past two weeks. Seems to be their coping mechanism.
Click to expand...

You're going to win the league? You're going to win the league? We'll never ever believe you. We'll never ever believe you. We'll never ever believe youuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
 
In eight hours time, Liverpool could be Premier League champions.

What tongueless ghost of sin crept through my curtains?
 
FortBoyard said:
I would take encouragement, and it wouldn't be abject failure. But I would still be disappointed and think about what might have been. Are you telling me you are not going to be disappointed if you are pipped at the post?
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely. But I can also tell you that it'll wear off pretty quickly when I realise how far we've come in just 12 months. This thread is testament to that.
 
redman5 said:
Oh absolutely. But I can also tell you that it'll wear off pretty quickly when I realise how far we've come in just 12 months. This thread is testament to that.
Click to expand...

You tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.
 
redman5 said:
Oh absolutely. But I can also tell you that it'll wear off pretty quickly when I realise how far we've come in just 12 months. This thread is testament to that.
Click to expand...
I think it's easy to say that now and I'm not saying it's not true for yourself and many fans but I can assure you when/if City lift the trophy, it will hurt like you won't believe knowing it was in your hands.
 
redman5 said:
So if United fail to win the title next season on the last day, it'll be classed as an abject failure, & you won't take any encouragement from it ?
Click to expand...
course it won't be classed as abject failure. but thats cos we have the pedigree of being in this situation many times and know its likely United will push on from there. we would quite rightly have an attitude of 'ok next year'. Liverpool on the other hand don't have that experience. its more like losing the title to Leeds so many years ago. it was like 'feck we'll never win this. its not to be.' two entirely different mindsets. Liverpool fans are in damage limitation mode now and its all 'look how far we've come' but the rest of us know the reality. you fecked up. it hurts like hell. you may never get closer to it. so if it doesn't happen today for you then you will have to suffer the jeers knowing next year will be tougher and you may never have a better shot
 
Last edited:
Irwinwastheking said:
6th will be a small improvement for them.
5th will be a surprise and a major achievement.
Top four will be near impossible.
Click to expand...

De Selby said:
They're a mile off challenging United, Chelsea, City or Arsenal anyway. I haven't been worried about them since 2009 & that was when they had Gerrard at the peak of his powers with Xabi Alonso in midfield & Fernando Torres who was arguably the best striker in the world at the time. They were a formidable side back then and they still couldn't beat us to the title, so you can be sure as night follows day that if they couldn't beat us with that lot then they sure as feck won't come anywhere near us with the shower of shite they have now.
Click to expand...

Alock1 said:
Liverpool fans have the problem England fans do. They expect and want too much, put far too much pressure on the team. I predict a 6th place finish and runners up in either the League or FA Cup. If Spurs lose Bale and don't strengthen, they've got a shout at 5th - but I expect Spurs to keep Bale and strengthen.
Click to expand...

Irwinwastheking said:
I agree johnny that fourth has to be your target, but I see it as being a target that will be well out of your reach next season.
Click to expand...

ghaliboy said:
Agreed. This full season will be interesting. I think he and Sterling are just to lightweight and not powerful enough to sustain domination of the kind that Liverpool require to take them higher up in the league.

The gloss of his and Sturridge's signing will well and truly have worn off by the seasons start next year.

The volatility of Suarez also puts a huge question mark on their team and it's not just whether he will play enough games in a season. His goals and conversion ratio is unpredictable. He also misses a lot of chances and even with the amount of goals he scored they didn't effect Liverpool's overall position in the league. Which is something to think about for Rogers.

If he's going to persist with 4-3-3/4-5-1 then he's going to need a better all round ball player come ball winner than Lucas and a better and more comfortably suited deeper playmaker than Gerard who spends his time camped in his zone looking for hollywood passes. He needs to be moving the ball a lot more in this day and age of the Premier League.

Liverpool is a bit of a laughing stock to be honest.
Click to expand...

Claymore said:
This ^. Carragher like Gerrard, was also younger and in prime. Mascherano as well and ugly Kuyt also worked hard out wide and stole a few goals. Now their team is much poorer. Coutinho and Suarez did well, Sturridge is over rated and like a new Defoe but gets goals. Lots of shooting, lots of speed. Gerrard has had his day.

Rodgers will go on about "the group" but the truth is they won a trophy last season under Kenny and came in the same place of the league just about, so they've gone backwards. Its United, Chelsea, City, no chance, then one other from the Spurs, Arsenal etc. Will be tough to get in that, (see Spurs).
Click to expand...

The Neviller said:
Has anyone suggested next year might be their year yet?
Click to expand...

KM said:
No but it's about to be. Liverpool fans are getting more giddy and giddy again.
Click to expand...

Carl said:
They need 1 CB and 1 RW as an absolute minimum but if they're serious about getting into the top 4 they need around 6 players in total to add some strength in depth.
Click to expand...

:p

I'm off to the match now, & to drown my sorrows afterwards.

You'll Never Walk alone Guys. Don't forget that ;)
 
Yeah and it still wasn't your year. So pipe down.
 
XdanielredX said:
Yeah it's pretty unfair to match Paisleys entire 9 year career at Liverpool to just picking and choosing a 9 year period out of Ferguson's reign, like someone said it's like Guardiola's 4 years at Barca vs any 4 year of Ferguson, on that account Guardiola is already more successful than him too. That's bollocks.

If we are going with Paisleys entire Liverpool career, you compare it to Ferguson's entire United career.

That's the point of a comparison, you compare careers, your best vs our best, not any best 9 year period, oh ours only went for this long so if we only pick out a certain amount of years from your best he is worse than ours.

It's the whole career or nothing.

Paisley:

Football League First Division (6): 1975-76, 1976-77, 1978-79, 1979-80, 1981-82, 1982-83
League Cup (3): 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83
FA Charity Shield (6): 1974, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982
European Cup (3): 1976–77, 1977–78, 1980–81
UEFA Cup (1): 1975-76
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1977

Ferguson:

Premier League (13): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13
FA Cup (5): 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
League Cup (4): 1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield (10): 1990 (shared), 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1990–91
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1991
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008
Click to expand...

If we are discussing who is the better manager then we must look at all of their managerial honours, you've done Paisley however Ferguson is even more impressive:

Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84, 1984–85
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985–86
Drybrough Cup (1): 1980
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (2): 1982–83, 1990-91
UEFA Super Cup (2): 1983, 1991
Premier League (13): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13
FA Cup (5): 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
League Cup (4): 1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield (10): 1990 (shared), 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Barmy Barney...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.