Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP

I think we need to be careful not to draw overly simplistic conclusions between thee two elections, for whilst the European results provide the more clinical headlines they are of lesser importance to gains at council level. England is predominantly Eurosceptic after alll, it should come as no surprise whatsoever for the two largest pro-EU parties to suffer, particularly now. UKIP had a solid base from which to secure this outcome and have been ably assisted by the lies and arrogant attitude of mainstream politics in this area [considering their present position i find Labour's indifference particularly remarkable].

It is no coincidence that some of these communities are proving to be particularly fertile ground for Farage, years of neglectful governments are deserving of little else i should think. Labour and the Tories would act similarly as regards HS2 or defence cuts for example, no solace there; each simply exchange the reins so far as u-turns whether it be tax or the NHS go.

With the advances made by the Greens as well as UKIP, i am hopeful that they might muster a half dozen MPs or more between them next year,
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
A minority of people are stupid, almost by definition.

The low turn out at these elections have given a minority more influence than they would usually have.
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I imagine the people that didn't vote covered a wide variety of intellects

The anti Europe party in Holland blamed the low turn out on their failure

If stupid people voted for anti Europe parties in these elections but wont vote for them in general elections then stupid people will then be voting for one of the majors parties
 
Stanley Road said:
I imagine the people that didn't vote covered a wide variety of intellects

The anti Europe party in Holland blamed the low turn out on their failure

If stupid people voted for anti Europe parties in these elections but wont vote for them in general elections then stupid people will then be voting for one of the majors parties
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I'm talking about the stupid people who voted for the extreme right. Stupid or bigots, kind of the same thing in my book. I don't think they will change their mind. I do think they will be out-numbered when the more reasonable (i.e. less stupid) majority make their voices heard. Thankfully, this is the kick up the arse they need to realise that no matter how disenchanted you are with the mainstream political parties, not taking part in the political process allows extremists to have more power than they should.

I blame that long-haired gobshite, Russell Brand....
 
redtilldead123 said:
What defines all minorities as stupid?

Strangest opinion I've read here.
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Not really. Although you've probably misunderstood my point (ironic?)

If we assume intelligence is distributed in a bell shaped curve (which it is) stupid people will always constitute the minority of any large sample.

So will really intelligent people fwiw.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not really. Although you've probably misunderstood my point (ironic?)

If we assume intelligence is distributed in a bell shaped curve (which it is) stupid people will always constitute the minority of any large sample.

So will really intelligent people fwiw.
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So you are now saying all types of intelligence will be represented in a sample and that you don't think minorities are stupid because you were being ironic in some way?

Your points are a clear as mud.
 
redtilldead123 said:
So you are now saying all types of intelligence will be represented in a sample and that you don't think minorities are stupid because you were being ironic in some way?

Your points are a clear as mud.
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The "ironic" point was a wee jibe at you for missing my point so badly. Although ironic is so often misused I can't be certain I didn't misuse it myself.

My point was crystal clear really. Stupid people are in the minority in the population in general. They just are. That's a fact.

Only a minority of people voted.

A sizable chunk of this minority voted for extremist right-wing parties.

It's quite possible that all of these people were stupid people.

That's really all I was saying.. Not sure why it bothers you?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm talking about the stupid people who voted for the extreme right. Stupid or bigots, kind of the same thing in my book. I don't think they will change their mind. I do think they will be out-numbered when the more reasonable (i.e. less stupid) majority make their voices heard. Thankfully, this is the kick up the arse they need to realise that no matter how disenchanted you are with the mainstream political parties, not taking part in the political process allows extremists to have more power than they should.

I blame that long-haired gobshite, Russell Brand....
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you are correct there.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm talking about the stupid people who voted for the extreme right. Stupid or bigots, kind of the same thing in my book. I don't think they will change their mind. I do think they will be out-numbered when the more reasonable (i.e. less stupid) majority make their voices heard. Thankfully, this is the kick up the arse they need to realise that no matter how disenchanted you are with the mainstream political parties, not taking part in the political process allows extremists to have more power than they should.

I blame that long-haired gobshite, Russell Brand....
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Well those asked on the telly this morning, voted ukip, said they would not vote ukip in a gen

To call voters stupid cos they voted for something you disagree with is a bit......well.......stupid
 
Stanley Road said:
Well those asked on the telly this morning, voted ukip, said they would not vote ukip in a gen

To call voters stupid cos they voted for something you disagree with is a bit......well.......stupid
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There is a lot of this, it seems that anyone who votes UKIP is branded as an idiot on here. In normal life it's recognised as bullying.
 
Chorley1974 said:
There is a lot of this, it seems that anyone who votes UKIP is branded as an idiot on here. In normal life it's recognised as bullying.
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Its actually generalising in the same way ukip themselves do

If theres a certain % of stupid people amogst the people that vote for a certain party, then there are more stupid people voting tory at the general election

But we all knew that I guess
 
Stanley Road said:
Without googling, I neither know whats in the manifesto or where you get your assumptions

Is that you Nige?
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So did you or did you not vote for them?

I didn't, I also read their manifesto. Probably a very large correlation between those two groups.
 
redtilldead123 said:
What defines all minorities as stupid?

Strangest opinion I've read here.
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You've clearly misread and misinterpreted his point. When did he say "all minorities" are stupid? He didn't. He said "a minority" of people are stupid, in the context of the minority of people of all colours and creeds who inhabit the lower end of the intelligence spectrum. It's nothing about ethnic minorities.
 
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NinjaFletch said:
So did you or did you not vote for them?

I didn't, I also read their manifesto. Probably a very large correlation between those two groups.
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No, I live in Holland, I wouldn't label anyone that did tho, I also dislike the EuroProject and its crazy currency. We have a proper extreme party here, the pvv. I'm glad these people exist as political debates are very entertaining
 
Stanley Road said:
No, I live in Holland, I wouldn't label anyone that did tho, I also dislike the EuroProject and its crazy currency. We have a proper extreme party here, the pvv. I'm glad these people exist as political debates are very entertaining
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If it led to political debates it might be useful.

It doesn't, it just leads to a race to the bottom pissing match where all parties try and be as lower common denominator enough to appeal to as many of the dregs in society as they can. Misinformation is key, too.
 
Stanley Road said:
Well those asked on the telly this morning, voted ukip, said they would not vote ukip in a gen

To call voters stupid cos they voted for something you disagree with is a bit......well.......stupid
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Not as stupid as assuming that I think everyone who would vote differently to me in an election is stupid.

A whole lot of points being not grasped in a discussion that heavily features the word "stupid".

That's either ironic or the exact opposite...
 
If the mainstream parties have failed to do their duty by these constituencies then it is not recommendation of someone's good sense were they to continue voting for them time after time. I must have respect for an individual(s) who seeks to apply their support with consideration rather than out of tribalism.

It is also worth remembering that local and regional concerns are important in this instance; Westminster MPs and partisan pundits have no right to so scornfully dismiss concerns from which they are distant and likely care little for.
 
Stanley Road said:
Why do you think they didn't vote? I don't know
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I think apathy is the biggest factor. But then you also get those who don't trust the major parties yet don't want to vote ukip.

You also get lazy can't be arsed feckers, and yes even 'dregs' as has been mentioned above (though it's hilariously sad when people have the mentality to use that phrase). In fact I'd wager a lot more people would vote ukip if they could find their way to be bothered.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If the mainstream parties have failed to do their duty by these constituencies then it is not recommendation of someone's good sense were they to continue voting for them time after time. I must have respect for an individual(s) who seeks to apply their support with consideration rather than out of tribalism.

It is also worth remembering that local and regional concerns are important in this instance; Westminster MPs and partisan pundits have no right to so scornfully dismiss concerns from which they are distant and likely care little for.
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Yep.
 
If these people all voted ukip to give the main parties a kick in the hole then I think they are quite smart, not in the least stupid
 
Not sure why people think Cameron is capable of winning the next election, he couldn't win a majority in 2010 after 13 years of Labour which culminated in a recession, huge public debt, mass immigration, mass unemployment, two unpopular wars, and a blathering, PR disaster in Brown.
 
Zak Smith said:
Not sure why people think Cameron is capable of winning the next election, he couldn't win a majority in 2010 after 13 years of Labour which culminated in a recession, huge public debt, mass immigration, mass unemployment, two unpopular wars, and a blathering, PR disaster in Brown.
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Does anyone, apart from Al?
 
He's certainly capable - the economy's improving, they'll likely give out a tax cut a few months before the general election, whilst Labour still aren't trusted on the economy, have a widely disliked leader and are having plenty of problems delivering a message that resonates with the public. The polls have been narrowing for months and sitting governments always rise in the year preceding an election. A majority isn't particularly likely, but I wouldn't want to rule any result out for next year at this point. Completely unpredictable.
 
Zak Smith said:
Not sure why people think Cameron is capable of winning the next election, he couldn't win a majority in 2010 after 13 years of Labour which culminated in a recession, huge public debt, mass immigration, mass unemployment, two unpopular wars, and a blathering, PR disaster in Brown.
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I think he can, primarily based on the economy. Giving your economy to Labour is akin to a 5 year old boy running your household expenditure.
 
alastair said:
I'm not sure they'll win it outright but I definitely see them being the most popular party.

Tory-UKIP coalition could be interesting.
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If they can't win on their own, one or two UKIP MP's is unlikely to make the difference.
 
alastair said:
No, you're right.

Who do you see winning the election?
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I think there will be small Labour majority. As impossible as imagining Milliband as PM is, it just seems hard to believe they won't stumble over the line, to me. Unless people start feeling a lot richer, in the next year.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I think there will be small Labour majority. As impossible as imagining Milliband as PM is, it just seems hard to believe they won't stumble over the line, to me. Unless people start feeling a lot richer, in the next year.
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They will, with a tax cut. I think the narrative of letting the Tories look after the recovery will be too much for Labour to contend with.
 
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