This might happen, although I'm more confident that he will value Kagawa over Rooney and play Mata&Shinji together. Rooney is much more "effective", but Kagawa might suit LVG's system better.
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Why do you have this feeling?
I don't think Kagawa has shown anything for the past 12 months to suggest he can be anywhere near the level of mata
LVG usually wants defensive contribution from every player and Kagawa is the player in our team who has proven the highest level of defensive contribution in a high press defense. Mata has the history of performing really poorly defensively, but he has been at a higher level in United than anywhere else, except Spain where he has played in a high press defense and done well.
Kagawa has developed his tackling and interceptions a lot so now he combines his neverending pressing abilities with actually winning the ball back a lot as well.
His tackling/interception stats for Japan in the World Cup was higher than Valencia had last season at United.
So I can certainly see why he would choose Kagawa to play, but I doubt it will be instead of Mata and rather with Mata and Herrera. He is the most suited for the pressing defense and he is also the 2nd best possession keeping player in the team after Mata.
Mata's positioning and press is really good though,but he rarely wins the ball back so that is something I think LVG can get him to do. In that regard Mata is similar to someone like Muller, who also presses well and stays in position but rarely wins the ball back.
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That's interesting as they are both very intelligent players. If you're talking about from a pressing perspective then yes!
Fletcher is so elegant.
Mata I think is probably the best number 10 in the PL, VG has got a bigger problem with rooney, that he cannot play all 3 of mata kagwa and rooney, it does not make sense to play all 3
And many go on about how many players fergie brought through, VG's track record with young players is probably closer to busby than fergie's was to busby
"Class of 92" aside, united haven't a stream of top top players come through.
Some how, many think fergie brought ronaldo and rooney through, yea he brought them through with a check book. Fergie was no different to mourinho with his academy
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i think one thing we need to realize about LVG is that he is all about team balance. So if he feels Kagawa fits the overall team balance better than mata, then dont be surprised if kagawa is more favored than mata assuming Kagawa actually performs up to standard
"I am very happy and really enjoying being at the club and in the city. The first couple of weeks here have been great.
"Training has been good, similar to at Bilbao in that we train a lot with the ball. The coaches want us to have the ball and keep possession, which is great for the players.”
Those are quotes from Herrera. Mata would surely be the preferred player, if we are to go down this route. However, being able to chop and change Mata/Kagawa is probably something that LvG is looking forward to.
"Training has been good, similar to at Bilbao in that we train a lot with the ball. The coaches want us to have the ball and keep possession, which is great for the players.”
Those are quotes from Herrera. Mata would surely be the preferred player, if we are to go down this route. However, being able to chop and change Mata/Kagawa is probably something that LvG is looking forward to.
Rooney fanboys won't like this but I've been saying it all along, it will be a 4-3-3 with 1 striker in the team and Mata will always get in the team ahead of Rooney in that advanced midfield role as a play-maker. Now I'm not saying Rooney won't play but he won't get a play-maker's spot in the team. Having RVP and Rooney compete for the number 9 spot is very healthy for our team anyway.
Signing Herrera was what convinced me as he's the perfect player to play box-to-box in a 4-3-3 with his stamina and all-rounded skill set.
Signing Herrera was what convinced me as he's the perfect player to play box-to-box in a 4-3-3 with his stamina and all-rounded skill set.
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That's not entirely fair. Compare Ronaldo's career to Quaresma's, or Rooney's to Gazza's. Ferguson, whether he bought them or not, played a vital role in the development of their talents.
No just no.
I don't think you understand how youth development works.
Van Gaal's spells at those clubs were much smaller and way less pressure at Ajax who always are academy dependent due to lack of cash and X/Y player was already there at other clubs. SAF contributed to building and improving the academy bottom up and even signed someone like Giggs personally reaching out to his family when City were keen (Also Beckham).
Plus you have to factor in the 90 minute rule that handcuffed the top academies a bit in England. Also, SAF still after Chelsea and City with their million raising the bar in terms of points needed and squad needed to win trophies managed to bring in plenty of youth players at the right time and balance the 2. Chelsea and Mourinho never have done that.
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That's nonsense. They were more or less the same age as the class of 92 when he started working with them. The difference is Beckham and Scholes for example had different youth coaches to Rooney and Ronaldo. SAF played an equally vital role in their development though.
SAF probably been playing a part in Scholes and Beckhams development from a earlier age considering he played a part in signing Beckham and Giggs and spotted Scholes as a 15/16 year old. But your point of him playing a part in Ronaldo and Rooney's development is absolutely right.
Giving someone a debut is different anyway to playing a big part in development and it varies from player to player. For example if you were to prepare that sort of team for SAF then ironically he did give a Debut to Pogba.
One of the most stupid things I have ever read on here. Some achievement, well done.
I'm sorry if it's already been posted, but read this article and found it quite interesting. Worth a read.
One of the most stupid things I have ever read on here. Some achievement, well done.
After 92 who did fergie bring through? he spent big has much as mourinho
Tell me after scholes and giggs in terms of top class talent, who else came through? Because all I saw with fergie was allot of players loaned out, yes he brought through brown oshea fletcher cleverly, but the amount of players brought through the academy was very thin
Like I say beyond the class if 92, we did not really bring through a ton of top class talent, adding the fact we would keep breaking world transfer records only behind Real Madrid at the time
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I think it's fair to say that we haven't developed any world class talent since Scholes and Giggs and there are a number of reasons behind that but the club I'm sure in part has to take some blame for that. Having said that the likes of O'Shea, Evans, Wes Brown, Welbeck, Fletcher and Cleverley saved us millions if we are being honest (At this moment I'd love for an O'Shea, someone who can hold his own in both central midfield and fill in at left back).
Also while he isn't an academy product Fergie did develop Ronaldo from a precocious youngster to a world class player, something Mourinho hasn't done.
I don't think Kagawa has shown anything at all in the last 12 months, and not much the year before, cannot even compare Mata to Kagawa, different class
The only potential hindrance I see for Mata is his perceived lack of defensive work. Mata is a step up from Kagawa.
Ronaldo was still a product of sporting Lisbon, he put him in the team, but he was not the product of the united academy.
My argument is it was not a busby or 92 style with Ronaldo, he was not part of the united academy, and united still payed for him. And if we saw someone like Ronaldo at 18 these days, we would be paying 50 million for the guy
I know....which is why I said he wasn't an academy product or did you miss that?
I just meant he did develop him into a world class player from when he was a precocious young talent. Unless you are trying to say Ronaldo was already world class when we signed him, in which case I wish you were here in the first couple of seasons when some people wanted Aaron Lennon over him. Mourinho would have probably gotten rid of Ronaldo have his first two seasons but Fergie had faith which you have to give him credit for.
But Mata's defensive work is not the best part of his game but he is much better at the other end of the field- when Kagawa played I don't remember him making much of a defensive contribution either (nor of an attacking contribution). Think Mata has made more of an impact in the few months he has been here than the 2 years of Kagawa. Half the time you don't realise Kagawa is playing when he's in the team . Totally underwhelmed by his contribution in his time here
True , my argument with mourinho and fergie, they are no different in terms of spending money. Never said about developing players, but in terms of not a great deal coming through our academy
Kagwa I find very overrated, a good player when he wants to be, but mata has shown he can easily match ROONEYS contribution in terms of goals and assists
Oh I agree with you point that we haven't developed a world class player from the academy, I just think Fergie all round is better at developing players.
I think the money argument on Mourinho is an unfair one as well, he has shown he was a world class manager at Porto and he is tactically superior to any other manager for my money as well.
I think if you compare the number of players that have come through the academy to at least be given a fair chance at the top level, between Mourinho and Sir Alex. Compare them over the number of years they've been at their jobs, i.e, four years. You'll find your conclusion to be utterly baseless.
I am a big fan of Mata, and I'm hoping that LvG will fit Mata RVP and Rooney into a deadly combination (obviously not playing the dire football and tactics of last season)
It's all down to personal preference. If Van Gaal wants his team to press high, interchange and counter attack with speed Kagawa would be better suited despite Mata being the better player, but given Herrera's comments on our training session which emphasize on keeping the ball Mata would be better suited.
I agree with you on Kagawa. I think he suits a counterattacking team, and united under Van Gaal won't play that way. I'd be selling Kagawa if I was Van Gaal.
They have both spent big on players, the big problem with fergie since 2009, with money being tight we never really used our academy to try and recruit players. I feel was desperately needed for the engine room, but we got scholes out of retirement instead. So it showed in the latter part of the fergie years, even he was cautious using inexperienced youth players
I feel fergie's biggest strength was his ability to find some proper gems, more than the academy
Huh?? you can't be serious.
I don't think he'd sell Kagawa, he'd always want a different option but I don't see Kagawa getting much game time this season
There's a lot of players we should sell before Kagawa.
Kagawa among others.
Quite, possession is a big emphasis with LvG and what he could achieve with Holland which was really a fairly average team in most respects, I'm intrigued and excited what he will do with our squad.
I think Fergie since 2009 lost his head a bit when it came to signings and started relying on experience and particularly PL experience more as well as his own man-management skills which are 2nd to none. In that kind of scenario we probably could have done with a DoF who could have thought about the long term direction of the club.
Read the convo not just what I said here
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