[Hernandez - BFA]

Don't worry lads, we go again next Saturday.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Lack of aggression and physical presence in every area of the pitch and too many players who under performed. Credit to Swansea for their excellent pressing on their half of the pitch and their good game plan.

Unilke many fans here, i believe the switch to 4-4-1-1 was a bit rushed. I disagree that we looked better, it was just Swansea being more cautious in the first 15 minutes of the second half. We didn't create anything, instead we were playing with two FBs that aren't FBs, a CM who has never performed well when playing deeper and with the introduction of Fellaini we managed to get Januzaj out of the game ourselves, since both Fellaini and Rooney were looking to get in the box and not go near him and provide options for him.

Fletcher was aweful. I wouldn't give a rat's arse about his passing, anyone can have a bad day but i'm still trying to find where he was in that first goal. Getting outnumbered in the middle areas in front of our box when playing 3-5-2 is ridiculous.

Mata was nowhere to be found, Hernandez the same. Rooney isn't the forward who will receive the ball and use his body to retain possession in order to invite others near him. He needs movement around him and since Hernandez is also a striker who needs others to do things for him we were fecked. We really missed Welbeck today.

Herrera didn't shine either. His first pass never beat Swansea's defensive transition but with Fletcher and Mata performing like they did, he was the last one who should have benn replaced.

Don't know if Kagawa was available, but if he doesn't get playing time on occasions such as this one i have serious doubts about his future at the club.

Anyway, we always knew it was going to be difficult so the key word is patience. Many players had a bad day against a more than decent side and we're still not done yet in this transfer window (i think).

 

[Cletus]

it s the first game of the season under a new manager...no need to over react like that. Anti-climax to what? The previous games were friendlies ...
it s a new manager, new system...it ll take time. If you re not ready to wait, there are plenty of plastic team options around...

Anti-climax to the hope that LVG would show us some positive progress after last season's horror show. Perhaps you had no expectation at all, but there was a wave of optimism around the club leading up to today.

The latter part, I believe fans that vent OTT does not necessarily mean a plastic.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The squad is not threadbare. For a team that aren't competing in Europe it is fine in terms of numbers.

We want to get back into Europe, need to get back into Europe. The squad size will be fine, the quality isn't.

 

[Barney]

Teams piss


Teams piss £60 mil on one player. The players we have bought added to the squad but aren't stand out world class starters - which we drastically lack.

Not dramatic, just realistic.

The dramatic comment was supposed to be separate from my initial statement.

You don't need world class starters to win or compete for honours.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Some of it is coaching. Some of it is down to us gradually assembling a squad of complete fannies. Barring Januzaj, there's not one player in there who I'd put money on to show any character when their back is against the wall.

Literally every single one of the rest of them either starts panicking or dragging their feet.

Possibly. But are we saying that all the other premier league teams have players with immaculate mentalities?

We basically have a squad who's confidence is shot and who seem to have forgotten the basics. Maybe there'd an issue of character too but I don't think it's that big an issue. I think lvg needs to be given 6 months to give shake these feckers up and well see results.

 

[bosnian_red]

The squad is threadbare and lacking quality. We played Ashley Young at left back and Jones ended up at right back.

Serious investment is needed. Hererra and Shaw are not enough.

Its thread bare in the back positions but overloaded in the attacking positions pretty much. Attacking wise we need to get rid of players if anything. Defensively it's a bit embarassing for a club of our stature to have only Jones, Smalling and Evans for center backs and only Rafael and Shaw as proper fullbacks.

 

[Dargonk]

Today just highlighted that we need a couple of new defenders. We just don't have enough right now and as a result we concede soft goals against the run of play and let teams right back into games. It also showed that our midfield needs extra quality still, they can keep the ball and knock it about, but creating chances at the same time is a struggle against teams that look to sit back and counter.

 

[NJM78]

Distinctly average display from a distinctly average team.

Mata was hugely dissapointing seems to get cut off from the midfield too easily when opposition pack the midfield. Herrera I thought was decent for his first ever premiership game. Strange decision taking him off and leaving on Fletcher who was running on empty after 60 mins and was only ever passing it backwards.
Rooney broke down so many decent moves by his clumsy passing - he was really frustrating despite his goal. Adnan was as usual our bright spark, once he gets the Roy of the rovers style greediness out of his game and plays a pass he will be some player. Nani bloody hell he actually looked like a Nani of old still in shock about that one. Those two by far out best players.
Young was the Young of last year going forward...bad and his defending today was very suspect but that is not his fault as he is obviously not a defender Louis!
As for the back Jones putting his life on the line as usual with some fierce challenges. Smalling was pretty bad once again. Blackett I think is more comfortable on the ball than either and did well. However we definitely need a proven centre back to be signed.

Basically I know we have injuries but it just shows that we need our full strength team week in week out to compete against the likes of Swansea never mind City or Chelsea. Top quality players must be signed or like I have been saying for weeks on here we will struggle to make top four. LvG cannot work miracles, the premiership is the most competitive in the world. We finished 7th for a reason last year and it wasn't just Moyes. Players under performed or performed to their capabilities as mediocre players.
We are also effectively weaker this season so it does not bode well at all after that confidence crushing start. Glazer in the crowd watching must be worried even after one game.

I realised I have missed out commenting on Hernandez, to be honest though I couldn't tell if he was actually playing or not.

 

[bosnian_red]

Possibly. But are we saying that all the other premier league teams have players with immaculate mentalities?

We basically have a squad who's confidence is shot and who seem to have forgotten the basics. Maybe there'd an issue of character too but I don't think it's that big an issue. I think lvg needs to be given 6 months to give shake these feckers up and well see results.

Yeah. The biggest problem is nobody to command the defence. We have 3 injury prone relatively young center backs and none of them are commanding or the type to organize, like Vidic was. Then we have 2 fullbacks, one who is 19 and out for a month and then one who is always injured. A bit of confidence and some luck with injuries would go a long way to improving us overall, but signings are needed regardless in defence and another one in midfield.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Don't worry lads, we go again next Saturday.

We go again!

 

[Cletus]

Of course it's disappointing given how well we played in pre-season, but at the same time the form we played in pre-season is what gives me confidence.

I have more faith in LVG reacting to this, whether it's new signings, change in training/tactics or both - were by no means the final product.
Plus there's 37 games left, some of our rivals are going to drop points because they're playing each other early on and we've got at least 9 players to come back from injury.
That's why I'm not freaking out tbh.

Totally agree with all that.

Biggest hope after results is that I can enjoy watching matches again. Last season, the majority of it was agony, which I don't remember feeling so negative about even before the Premier League era.

 

[dev1l]

Anti-climax to the hope that LVG would show us some positive progress after last season's horror show. Perhaps you had no expectation at all, but there was a wave of optimism around the club leading up to today.

The latter part, I believe fans that vent OTT does not necessarily mean a plastic.

building a team takes time...the wave of optimism is irrelevant. If you thought that lvg could turn things around in a few games,well i think you re a bit naive..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah. The biggest problem is nobody to command the defence. We have 3 injury prone relatively young center backs and none of them are commanding or the type to organize, like Vidic was. Then we have 2 fullbacks, one who is 19 and out for a month and then one who is always injured. A bit of confidence and some luck with injuries would go a long way to improving us overall, but signings are needed regardless in defence and another one in midfield.

I think it's a bit of a joke that we've gone into the season with so many defenders who are still trying to prove themselves and a few other kids, and our midfield so poor and bare that Darren fletcher is one of our key men there.

The club needs to sort it's shit out with regards to transfers without a doubt. Lvg will improve us, make us a proper team in time, but you can't be so shoddy in the transfer market.

 

[Ash_G]

In theory in a 3-5-2, the WBs should be breaking forward as soon as we have the ball, meaning Mata should have 2 strikers and 2 WBs to play with, and those 5 should be our attacking quintet, with occasional support from the CMs.

Who is to blame? I'm not sure, but the strikers didn't seem to do much. Januzaj was our best player I thought, and Young did OK as well.

I agree in theory it should I personally think that beyond the first eleven we don't have the players to play this system without investment. Young at lwb is going to cut inside which does Mata no favours, Januzaj aside no one carries the ball outwide, most typically play it back infield.

I think in terms of blame it's all round. The players played too slowly/sloppy but also we've been complacent in terms of thinking we could wait so long to buy particularly with injuries and in believing we can turn wingers in to wingbacks whilst playing inexperienced defenders and as I've mentioned trying to play a 3 at the back with no defenders who are good on the ball.

 

[dev1l]

The dramatic comment was supposed to be separate from my initial statement.

You don't need world class starters to win or compete for honours.

agreed. you need to build a team...something which cannot be done overnight

 

[PSingh]

I'm sick of hearing about that fecking garden gnome. I wish he'd just feck off back to JP Morgan where he came from and the club can then hire a football man who can get things done without shouting his mouth off with inane platitudes on MUTV.

Yeah he really dug himself a hole with the "watch this space" comments. Hopefully he gets it together and signs a few players.

 

[togg]

Possibly. But are we saying that all the other premier league teams have players with immaculate mentalities?

We basically have a squad who's confidence is shot and who seem to have forgotten the basics. Maybe there'd an issue of character too but I don't think it's that big an issue. I think lvg needs to be given 6 months to give shake these feckers up and well see results.

I agree, which I think is why people feel a bit deflated today. It was the hope that maybe we wouldn't need too much time..perhaps things might have clicked purely because LVG could reinstall that confidence enough to at least beat Swansea at home on the first day. However, I do feel as though we are going to have a rather long up and down season, although hopefully one that will see a plan or system come together. But with LVG basically admitting this team isn't good enough for the title, he's also intimating in my mind, that 4th isn't going to be easy at all, when you consider the rivals we are up against.

I do like his honesty though...saying that today's result has basically smashed any confidence gained in pre-season is beautifully honest in the PR soundbite world of football...because he's absolutely right.

I do think the players play in fear at Old Trafford at the moment, because of what happened last season, huge expectation, each one under scrutiny not only from the fans but LVG to etc. I do expect us to beat Sunderland pretty well next week...and then struggle again in our next home game.

 

[Godfather]

The dramatic comment was supposed to be separate from my initial statement.

You don't need world class starters to win or compete for honours.

How would you know what it takes to win.

 

[Feed Me]

The squad is not threadbare. For a team that aren't competing in Europe it is fine in terms of numbers.

We have virtually no depth at the back. Plus, the quality across all parts of the team is questionable, with the exception of the attack.

 

[Offside]

Yeah he really dug himself a hole with the "watch this space" comments. Hopefully he gets it together and signs a few players.

Why did he do that? Total madness. Everything he's done since he came here has been poor.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

I've changed my mind.

It's indisputable that other parts of the team are in a state of disrepair and in urgent need of improvement. Mata looks like a luxury purchase more and more with each passing week - it's like buying a chandelier for a ceiling that's caved in.

It shouldn't be a problem buying him as a luxury, so long as it doesn't impact on our ability to rectify those areas of the squad. the money is there, its public knowledge, the will to spend it seems to be there judging from woodwards interviews, but the question is whats the fecking hold up. i refuse to believe in conspiracy theorys whereby the glaziers wont sign off on a spend to get us back to the top, their ENTIRE busniness model depends on champions league qualification and the prestigue it gives to the club and therefore sponsors. They wont commit financial suicide by not investing in the team. spending another 80m to garuntee champions league football next year PAYS FOR ITSELF by the added 40m income from the qualification, and not losing 40m from the adidas deal clause.

 

[R0nald0]

So before I kill myself, I am taking some positives out of the match:-

• We beat Swansea 4-1 first game of last season - we don't want the same season so change the start
• The excellent pre-season could have LVG thinking he didn't need any more reinforcements. I'd have taken one defeat to ensure that he knows we are miles short in terms of quality at CB and CM
• Hernandez, Fellaini and Nani - clear that they are not United players - sure they will be sold in next 2 weeks

So, in summary, it was actually a decent result for us....... I'm not panicking at all, it's fine, really really, absolutely fine....... where's the gun

 

[bosnian_red]

I think it's a bit of a joke that we've gone into the season with so many defenders who are still trying to prove themselves and a few other kids, and our midfield so poor and bare that Darren fletcher is one of our key men there.

The club needs to sort it's shit out with regards to transfers without a doubt. Lvg will improve us, make us a proper team in time, but you can't be so shoddy in the transfer market.

Yeah, a manager can only get you so far. With Fergie we still had Rafael at right back having a great season, Evra always playing at left back, 5 decent options at center back, and then Carrick to rely on in midfield. Fergie with this current crop that are left wouldn't win the title IMO and defensively we'd still be awful, because the defensive players are just young, inexperienced and injury prone. If we don't sign anyone I could see the likes of Blackett, James, Young and Lingard all featuring regularly in defence.

 

[Jaap]

Slowly drifting into mediocrity. As painful as it is and sounds, it should be obvious to every sensible supporter.

If we don't add quality to the team, then we will see a repeat of last season's disaster.

 

[rockerlad]

De Latt is looking better for leicester than all of our defenders!

 

[villain]

Totally agree with all that.

Biggest hope after results is that I can enjoy watching matches again. Last season, the majority of it was agony, which I don't remember feeling so negative about even before the Premier League era.

I think we'll be fine in all honesty. There will be some bumpy games like today but no season is ever clear sailing.

The biggest difference between now and last season for me is that you know that LVG is not afraid to make changes, or to tell it like it is if were not winning.
He's not going to get everything correct, were not going to win every match and it's up to the players if they can implement what he wants. But you know that he won't just sit back and expect results to go our way, or make excuses like Moyes

 

[Ole240599]

Such is the level of hyperbole that surrounds all facets of this board that a reaction of this magnitude was always going to occur today. It seems like perspective is an alien concept to quite a few denizens.

Why is it overreaction? Are you implying that we are only reacting to this game?

over-reaction galore....first game of the season ffs. The more i browse through the posts the more i believe that this forum has been taken over by 10 yr olds

Why is it overreaction? Are you implying that we are only reacting to this game? We have been a shambles for the last 14 months. If I had of overseen such an inept transition in my own job I would be sacked. When the bin dippers operate like we have been we rightly ridicule them, if the caps fits............

 

[Dargonk]

One positive to take from this match is the fact that after not being able to create anything in the first half, LVG actually made changes swiftly to try and fix things. Far better than last year where everyone was crying out for a sub or change in the 70th minute still before Moyes bothered to actually do anything.

 

[Hamadovich86]

Post match presser transcript

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...e=twitter&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ManUtd

Will have a look now and post anything discussion worthy.

 

[Moriarty]

Why did he do that? Total madness. Everything he's done since he came here has been poor.

He's a banker. What he knows about football could be written on the back of a stamp. He's fine when it comes to convincing corporations to sign on to the "brand" but he's a fecking midget in the world of high-level football transfers.

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

We were supposed to be getting results against such teams in our quest for champions league again, never mind fighting for the title. Could well be the start of a long painful season, unless we get in some quality reinforcements.

 

[PSingh]

Why did he do that? Total madness. Everything he's done since he came here has been poor.

Honestly have no idea. I assumed if he was going to give it the big talk he would have a couple of players lined up for us. Seems a bit silly at the moment.

All the talk about us getting rid of the deadwood and having a massive war chest to sign world class players seems silly as well. Seems like he sets himself up to fail. I would prefer if we kept our mouths shut and got on with the business.

 

[PlayerOne]

Not sure why it's so tiny, but club the gif, you get the full size. It shows the players movement throughout the match.

 

[poisson]

We lost this match because:

1) Tactical mistakes by Van Gaal
- Janujaz at right wingback in the 1st half?
- Taking Herrera (our best midfielder today) off
- Sticking Fellaini upfront and hoofing the ball to him - JUST WOW

2) Players under performing
- Mata was shite today, no beating around the bush with that one, ditto Hernandez.
- Rooney, sloppy passing, broke down so many moves

3) Average players
- we're severely lacking in quality, anyone with half a footballing brain knows that. We have to invest asap or it will be another disappointing, tumescent season.


If we're struggling against the likes of Swansea, God only knows what your liverpools, chelseas et all will do to us. Actually, thinking about Burnley away next match....chirst almighty

 

[NJM78]

One positive to take from this match is the fact that after not being able to create anything in the first half, LVG actually made changes swiftly to try and fix things. Far better than last year where everyone was crying out for a sub or change in the 70th minute still before Moyes bothered to actually do anything.

I agree but we still lost unfortunately.
He also took off Herrera who was starting to tick after Rooney's goal. That basically outdid his previous good work as we looked lost after that.

 

[Barney]

We have virtually no depth at the back. Plus, the quality across all parts of the team is questionable, with the exception of the attack.

It was your attack that looked the worst area of the pitch today. Just as it was idiotic when you lot made the "We. Are. Back." Thread after winning a few preseason games, it is stupid to make massive judgements based upon this match.

How would you know what it takes to win.

Hilarious.

agreed. you need to build a team...something which cannot be done overnight

Yep.

 

[NJM78]

We lost this match because:

1) Tactical mistakes by Van Gaal
- Janujaz at right wingback in the 1st half?
- Taking Herrera (our best midfielder today) off
- Sticking Fellaini upfront and hoofing the ball to him - JUST WOW

2) Players under performing
- Mata was shite today, no beating around the bush with that one, ditto Hernandez.
- Rooney, sloppy passing, broke down so many moves

3) Average players
- we're severely lacking in quality, anyone with half a footballing brain knows that. We have to invest asap or it will be another disappointing, tumescent season.


If we're struggling against the likes of Swansea, God only knows what your liverpools, chelseas et all will do to us. Actually, thinking about Burnley away next match....chirst almighty

Sunderland away before that one, also does not fill me with confidence.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I agree, which I think is why people feel a bit deflated today. It was the hope that maybe we wouldn't need too much time..perhaps things might have clicked purely because LVG could reinstall that confidence enough to at least beat Swansea at home on the first day. However, I do feel as though we are going to have a rather long up and down season, although hopefully one that will see a plan or system come together. But with LVG basically admitting this team isn't good enough for the title, he's also intimating in my mind, that 4th isn't going to be easy at all, when you consider the rivals we are up against.

I do like his honesty though...saying that today's result has basically smashed any confidence gained in pre-season is beautifully honest in the PR soundbite world of football...because he's absolutely right.

I do think the players play in fear at Old Trafford at the moment, because of what happened last season, huge expectation, each one under scrutiny not only from the fans but LVG to etc. I do expect us to beat Sunderland pretty well next week...and then struggle again in our next home game.

It's a bit of a reality check for all of us. Thing is, last season has done more damage than we would have liked to admit. And we haven't actually played like a cohesive unit for a while really. I think LVG needs some months to weed out these confidence and coaching issues that this team has developed. I'm confident that he'll do it. It's a question of how fast. These players haven't played technical football in competitive matches consistently for aeons. Will it quickly just click like it did with Everton and Martinez, or will it take time like it did with Liverpool and Rodgers. If it's more like the latter, then we'll have a long season of playres being pushed to do uncomfortable things till they get comfortable at doing them, and we'll see a proper LVG United team thereafter. If it's more like the latter, then in a months time, we'll have this team playing some proper stuff.

 

[dev1l]

Why is it overreaction? Are you implying that we are only reacting to this game?

Why is it overreaction? Are you implying that we are only reacting to this game? We have been a shambles for the last 14 months. If I had of overseen such an inept transition in my own job I would be sacked. When the bin dippers operate like we have been we rightly ridicule them, if the caps fits............

lvg has been in charge for a couple of months and not 14 months