Young is a good cover for both Wing backs and any win position, he stays simply because he can still play a bit and is versatile enough. Valencia can only play on one side of the pitch and is terrible on that side.
25
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- Appearances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Absolutely. Fergie had a knack of getting the most out of pretty limited players by making them work with the team. There was a spell where every single game Valencia tortured the opposition left back, he was an animal.
I remember towards the end of his best season he even started varying him game by coming inside and linking up with the striker and then go outside again. Welbeck was pretty usefull at this interplay. I have no idea what happened to that development because the following season it died.
Agree with you. He was always found out, but that wasn't enough. Against Blackburn, they put both Olsson brothers on him trying to nullify his pace, but as their manager said afterwards, it just wasn't enough. He outrun them and outmuscled them time and time again, and that's what he pretty much did to every fullback.
He's just as fast these days, just look at some of his defensive runs, and he still gets past players from time to time, but then he stops before crossing, letting the defender make a sliding tackle to clear the ball.
I have no idea what it is that is limiting him because all the attributes that he once had are still there. People talk about him losing pace after that injury, but that run against Liverpool was after the injury and he is still time and time again quoted as being faster than both Bale and Ronaldo (which I don't find that hard to believe). It was Rooney who said that the one thing he would want from another player was Valencia's pace... Use it!
Ya it's a strange one. His best season was in 2011/12 which was after his injury so I don't think that had anything to do with his decline. He was without doubt the most one dimensional player I can remember us having in recent years. It always confused me how defenders couldn't stop him as you knew what he was going to do every time. Even at his peak it was always just about knocking the ball past the full back and whipping the ball in. It was so effective though. For some reason he simply refuses to take players on nowadays and his crossing, which was once excellent, now involves hitting the ball off the ankle of the full back over and over each game. Arguably our must frustrating player as unlike others he actually used to be very good.
Hopefully we wont be using wingbacks much longer and will add another quality wide forward so Young can move on.
Unbelievable we let kagawa leave, yet Valencia and young are still here. feck me.
to think he was called one of the best wingers in the world by guardiola a few years back, christ.
to think he was called one of the best wingers in the world by guardiola a few years back, christ.
TV has been dire but he's still a useful squad man for us. Nuke Ashley, hold Tony.
I wonder how many years he will have to be dreadful for people to stop saying this.
Yeah I actually think he lost a yard of pace which has effected his confidence and made his "1 trick" a lot less damaging.
When did he lose this pace then? It was clearly not after his damage as proven by that run against Liverpool and him having a terrific season afterwards, and why should he lose pace now? He was recently quoted by FIFA as the fastest player in Europe and his defensive runs seem to support that. Last season he easily outpaced Sterling for the ball for instance. He takes too long on the ball though - much too long.
I don't believe his injury has anything to do with his decline. He returned from that nasty leg break, finished off the season looking pretty good, then went on to have an explosive season the year after, winning the Matt Busby and the Players' Player awards, deservedly.
It's a mystery as to why he's not effective anymore. He's definitely still lightning quick. I don't buy all that "defenders have figured him out" lark either. Did these defenders not watch his 4 seasons at Wigan where he did the same thing? Every time he got the ball, you knew what he was going to do. Even when doubled up on, he still created space with his pace, and got the ball behind the defence. Unless you can figure out a way to run faster than him, you couldn't really stop him.
Now he dwells, and doesn't seem to know what he's going to do.
I don't think he's lost any pace, but perhaps he has lost that insane burst of acceleration which allowed him to change pace so quickly. I haven't seen him draw a defender in and then just burst past him like he used to do for such a long time. The pace is still there, but it was how quickly he could hit top speed which made him so dangerous. Does he still have that at his disposal?
It's a mystery as to why he's not effective anymore. He's definitely still lightning quick. I don't buy all that "defenders have figured him out" lark either. Did these defenders not watch his 4 seasons at Wigan where he did the same thing? Every time he got the ball, you knew what he was going to do. Even when doubled up on, he still created space with his pace, and got the ball behind the defence. Unless you can figure out a way to run faster than him, you couldn't really stop him.
Now he dwells, and doesn't seem to know what he's going to do.
I don't think he's lost any pace, but perhaps he has lost that insane burst of acceleration which allowed him to change pace so quickly. I haven't seen him draw a defender in and then just burst past him like he used to do for such a long time. The pace is still there, but it was how quickly he could hit top speed which made him so dangerous. Does he still have that at his disposal?
What he's lost is his acceleration and not his top speed, kind of like Wayne Rooney who still has a good top speed too. Previously he beat people on will just by accelerating away from them the first step and these days he never accelerates as quickly.
You can clearly see he has a brutal top speed still when he gets a chance to use it. Unfortunately having a great acceleration is much more important than the quite irrelevant top speed factor - which you only get to see a couple of times per season.
I agreed with this up until some point last season, since he was at one point a very useful winger for us and was a handy player to have. I've gotten to the point now though where I just don't see him replicating his 2011/2012 form again and being a good winger for us.
Sorry for late response mate.
Maybes he's lost acceleration and not necessarily top speed?
Maybe, and you may very well be right here, but that doesn't explain why he just doesn't run at defenders at top speed anymore. In the past, he used to run at players and flick it on the outside at pace leaving defenders for dead. Nani was always quicker off the mark, imo, than Valencia is. So many times Valencia has been isolated against his fullback with the option to simply flick the ball twenty yards ahead and run past his opponents, at pace even, yet he refuses to try this. That is what I cannot understand. Valencia never had quick feet the way Lennon or Sterling has, but he would destroy both for top speed over a distance. In close quarters he was never the best, but he's lost the ability to run at people...
No worries mate - I'm hopeless that way myself
Maybe, and you may very well be right here, but that doesn't explain why he just doesn't run at defenders at top speed anymore. In the past, he used to run at players and flick it on the outside at pace leaving defenders for dead. Nani was always quicker off the mark, imo, than Valencia is. So many times Valencia has been isolated against his fullback with the option to simply flick the ball twenty yards ahead and run past his opponents, at pace even, yet he refuses to try this. That is what I cannot understand. Valencia never had quick feet the way Lennon or Sterling has, but he would destroy both for top speed over a distance. In close quarters he was never the best, but he's lost the ability to run at people...
No worries mate - I'm hopeless that way myself
I agree about Nani, his first few step or two were always brilliant. I think Valencia lost his acceleration and with that he lost his confidence. Currently he looks too self aware, knowing that he won't beat his man so he doesn't even try when he has a good shot at it.
I think that off the ball he still shows his great pace at times, but even when he does at least in my eyes he doesn't have that world class acceleration anymore. At his peak his top speed and acceleration was enough to consistently ridicule full backs with the same move, over and over.
These days I think he looks a bit sluggish even, in terms of his first two steps. I think as Valencia relied on his physical attributes more than probably any footballer before, he just went straight down hill after losing the acceleration he built his game on.
I am still amazed that he went so far in football without a functional left foot.
And he's stopped trying to be accurate with his crosses. It's like in his mind he says "why bother ?"
Nani was a joy at his peak - such quick movements and unpredictability.
I don't think I've seen Valencia try to accelerate past players in ages, so I can't say that I have noticed if he is sluggish or not, but he does look a bit heavy whilst running at "slower" speeds, and he's about as agile as a rhino. Even if he has lost acceleration, which I don't think he has tbh, it doesn't explain why he never runst at his opposition anymore. Look at the run he had against Liverpool and the speed at which he carried the ball - I think Kyle Walker would get a run for his money (saw Valencia outpace him too in the middle of the park last season). Even against really sluggish fullbacks he never tries to run past anymore - it has to be more than just pace. I really makes no sense. Why he stopped varying his crosses also baffles me; before he used to smack them at times, or make proper aerial crosses and then drive the next for a shot on the 18 yard box. Now it's like he doesn't believe that his feet can do more than one angle, bizarre...
I wonder if anybody has taken him aside in regards to his crossing? His crossing is absolutely terrible and has been absolutely terrible for about 2 years now. Either it's a problem nobody is willing to address or he's just ignoring any advice. I just cannot understand how he keeps getting away with blasting the ball into the shins of the left back or if it does beat the defender it's high and wide and crap.
The fact he recently signed a new contract is just baffling to me. Everyone goes through slumps, but this is now a 2 year slump with no end in sight.
It is crazy to something like this can happen at this level tbh. You don't lose your crossing ability unless you deliberately change it.
No worries mate - I'm hopeless that way myself
Agreed about Nani. Was actually 1 of my favourite players while here at united.
It's mental. He is one of the fittest players in the squad and still had speed and acceleration despite the injury. What he needs and what we don't have it seems is a sports psychologist like the scousers brought in last year. One may have helped Nani too after the carragher assault. The #7 fiasco was a sign of that.
He's a disgrace. Can't stand him.
Can i just say, Kudos to whoever did the Quotation marks on "performances". Genuine Kek
I can understand fans having different opinions on players, that's normal but to call him a disgrace is just stupid in my opinion. He has been a great pro for United and is not a disgrace.
Having a break from international football apparently.
In his one fantastic season for us it was 100% going full speed down the touchline and 100% crossing into the box, mostly for Rooney.
I don't know if losing a step of pace has killed that, but there seems to be as lot of hesitation in his game, a lot of over-thinking.
Though recently in some of our zombie football days, where the plan seemed to be 'give it to Valencia then stand there', he was still usually the outlet for the back line to feed the ball into the offense and one of the few who could beat a man.
I don't know if losing a step of pace has killed that, but there seems to be as lot of hesitation in his game, a lot of over-thinking.
Though recently in some of our zombie football days, where the plan seemed to be 'give it to Valencia then stand there', he was still usually the outlet for the back line to feed the ball into the offense and one of the few who could beat a man.
Likeable bloke, a pro, and had a beast of a season a few years ago.
Painful to watch now though, incredibly predictable, slows the game down, boring, pretty much epitomises everything bad about our football in the past few seasons.
Painful to watch now though, incredibly predictable, slows the game down, boring, pretty much epitomises everything bad about our football in the past few seasons.
Wow! He's the one who sacked his manager because he wanted to stay at this club and he gives his all, even if he plays below average. You would probably say that you are a great united supporter, but by saying what you did there, I probably would argue that you are a bit of a disgrace, truth be told.
Spot on - there is no easy way to logically explain what happened. Even if he had lost some of his pace, it still doesn't explain why he doesn't run into open spaces when no defenders are around. He stops, over-thinks and then passes sideways or backwards. It really is bizarre.
He should take a break from club football instead
There's one thing not being good enough. As long as your trying eveything in your power to contribute. And I'm sorry, but Valencia doesn't even try anymore. He's completly gone into his shell, and rather then at least trying to produce something, to beat a man, to whip in a cross, he just does the bare minimal possible. Unless you call just constantly smashing the ball at the defenders legs trying. And that is why he is a disgrace.
He is anything but a great pro, or a player that gives his all. In fact he's the complete opposite. He's a joke.
I can't really think of Valencia as a player who wouldn't try to play better if he could. He's definitely a hardworker, he just doesn't have the talent to influence the team in the way we want him to.
I personally love playing team-sports, and I sure as hell want to improve myself whenever I can in my current team. But I also realise that there's a glass-ceiling, whereby I just lack a certain amount of match awareness, that speed/agility and split-second decision making that would make me a better player. My head sometimes processes movements that my body just can't react to, such as wanting to make that certain pass to another person but lacking the foresight to have positioned my body in such a way to actually make the pass in time, or even wanting to make a certain type of move that my legs and arms just can't make. Perhaps I'm not that athletically gifted as others, or have the same level of spatial-awareness that others have, but that doesn't mean I don't try my best.
I often opt for the safer pass not because I'm a coward, but because the "time" has already passed for me to make the "riskier" pass, whereby the opponent has come into a point where he has a 50/50 chance of intercepting whereas such a pass would have been viable just half a second ago. In team sports, one of the worst things that can happen is you making a unnecessarily risky pass and leaving your team to get countered. The defence would be all over the place trying to get back into whatever marking system you have set yourself, and you'll be the ultimate player to blame. Players like Mata/Di Maria are ones who can make the "risky" pass into sufficient risk, which is why they are so high in demand and value. You learn to read situations like that, and I think Valencia has just lost that "bit" of an advantage over the opponent where he can do riskier options with enough safety net to actually do it. Whether if it's pace, agility or just match-thinking speed, all I know is that he has somehow regressed from the previous seasons to what we're seeing from him now.
I don't blame Valencia for being chosen into the team, I just think that he's not good enough for the team we need.
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He's the definition of a coward.
Basically this.
I hope it's not to prolong his club career.
He's not a joke and probably one of our players who run the most during matches, but he looks to have lost any clue what to do with the ball in attack. That's not a disagrace per se, it's just not good enough. Quite a difference.
He doesn't even try anything, thats why he's a disgrace. As someone above said, he's a coward.
I agree with the coward bit - but from that to disgrace is quite a stretch. I've not defended him one bit, but he genuinely looks like he cares and he certainly puts in a shift and isn't afraid to tackle either. That's not a disgraceful player, it's one lacking in either quality or belief in himself - or both.