Alex Salmond and Independence
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He's keeps bringing up how terrible England are scaremongering, yet is unable to answer any questions, the man is a fool.
Okay I should have what I'd consider a healthy democratic nation.
You are right that his referendum is the result of that but only due to flawed planning. The Scottish Parliament was designed to avoid majority governments for this very purpose and those who created it have admitted as much.
Oh its not the Poll itself or indeed the issue that its about, just the nature of the reporting.
Have Scotland got independence yet ??
Yawn
Yawn
@NewDawnFades what part of the uk's foreign policy over the last, say 100 years has really stood out as so abhorrent to you?
what loftier ambitions do you have for an independent Scotland?
what loftier ambitions do you have for an independent Scotland?
A yes vote is not a vote for Salmond - people would do well to remember that.
I find it concerning the idea of "Vote YES then get rid of Salmond".. this is the man who is trying to engineer the entire referendum and yet even he cant answer basic questions about what an independant Scotland will look like... why does your average Joe seem to think that you can just take independance and then do a better job than the man whose entire passion and legacy revolves around securing said independance?
I can't argue 100 years of decisions with you especially on my phone, but what I know is our recent history, where our government has supported apartheid and considered Mandela a terrorist, built up an industrial arms trade in the 1980s and sold these to questionable regimes. Our government has along with Americans overseen the launching of a war which is still being fought today in Iraq which whether you believe was right or not, was only able to take place by our intelligence services and most senior elected officials knowingly using evidence that was not sufficiently verified and turned out to be false.
Personally I'd hope to see us a non interventionist voice for peace which sets an example with nuclear disarmament but that's just me. I do doubt an independent Scotland would have invaded Iraq but I know it is a huge 'what if'.
He cant answer the key questions i.e. currency (which is the most significant). If a yes vote were to happen, Salmond will ride off into the sunset as his party will have achieved its manifesto.
As for your average Joe, Salmond's intentions have been to fight this battle in an emotional manner, therefore, duping a fair amount of the public into believing his rhetoric. The problem is the Better Together campaign has handled the whole thing so poorly - quite incredible how bad actually. Seeing them arrive in Scotland at this stage smacks of desperation and a realisation that they may actually lose this. If it does happen, it will say more about Cameron et al than it does Salmond's political nous.
I'm sorry, are my fellow Scots and I annoying you or something?
I'm getting properly cheesed off with the infantile Us vs Them culture that's been bred from both sides of the campaign since this whole referendum was announced.
See my post above - not surprising by Salmond, spectacularly bad from Darling and Cameron.
I'm just sick of it dominating everything, that's all.
Is that allowed ?
I have no preferences, one way or another.
Just making light of it - I've upset some good folk apparently.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b5c48254-376e-11e4-bd0a-00144feabdc0.html?segid=0100320#axzz3CyD2TOKv
Scotland’s fateful choice
The case for union is overwhelming. The path of separation is a fool’s errand
The United Kingdom ranks as one of the most successful marriages in history. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have survived ancient hatreds, tribal rivalry and war. Each nation has been enriched by a journey of enlightenment, empire, shared energy and enterprise.
In eight days’ time, this splendid mess of a union, to quote Simon Schama, the British historian, risks being separated into its national parts. Scotland will vote in a referendum to decide whether to stay in the UK or sunder bonds stretching back to 1707. Opinion polls suggest the result is too close to call, a prospect which has alarmed financial markets, wrongfooted allies and sent a complacent coalition government scrambling to find a last-minute sweetener to win over the Scots.
As somebody else has pointed out, the papers really are very much against this.
Scotland’s fateful choice
The case for union is overwhelming. The path of separation is a fool’s errand
The United Kingdom ranks as one of the most successful marriages in history. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have survived ancient hatreds, tribal rivalry and war. Each nation has been enriched by a journey of enlightenment, empire, shared energy and enterprise.
In eight days’ time, this splendid mess of a union, to quote Simon Schama, the British historian, risks being separated into its national parts. Scotland will vote in a referendum to decide whether to stay in the UK or sunder bonds stretching back to 1707. Opinion polls suggest the result is too close to call, a prospect which has alarmed financial markets, wrongfooted allies and sent a complacent coalition government scrambling to find a last-minute sweetener to win over the Scots.
As somebody else has pointed out, the papers really are very much against this.
Is it really dominating everything? And even if it were, you don't think a large portion of the 'country' breaking off is big news?
Not in my world. I have bigger things to worry about.
I'm seeing a lot of this utopian idea of a Scotland free of the tyranny of the terrible English and I find it faintly ridiculous vision.
On the point you mention quoted above for example; that was a set of decisions undertaken by a government who were nicknamed 'the Scottish Mafia' in some circles due to the amount of Scottish that held the powerful positions in that government. Scottish MPs were a large part of taking us back into Iraq. So while you doubt an independent Scotland would have gone in to Iraq, I say the only thing that would stop you would be a lack of a sizable standing armed forces - it certainly wouldn't be your Scottish MPs.
My point being, MPs are MPs, the are in general self serving egotists who always have one eye on the next election and by their nature plan for the short term so they can keep the power they enjoy. They pander to the electorate that is going to give them a majority (hence the way Tony Blair's Scottish Mafia took Labour away from the socialist left).
Scotland is not going to get some new breed of politician because you're independent, in fact it's odds on that most of your MPs will be the very same arseholes that have sat in this Parliament.
What is quite scary is the current vogue of lowest common denominator politics and again, it is prevalent on both sides of the border. Up there you have Salmond - all chest beating and anti English sentiment while refusing to be drawn on actual answers to policy questions; while down here we have scumbags like Farage - all tweed and bitter down the pub, talking like Jeremy Clarkson and finding some kind of foothold while displaying no substance.
One other thing to think about while dreaming of the brave new tomorrow is that the MPs you already have are already doing what Salmond is claiming will happen in the event of a No vote. They are slicing up and selling off the NHS to foreign investors. Surely they are not the same MPs that will be fair, transparent and lead Scotland into something new and inspiring.
I understand your point but it was quite an insensitive remark to make - if that's how you feel (which is understandable) I would stay away from this thread.
Agreed. Please can we just stop with all of the pettiness?
If you aren't interested in the topic, just stay out of the bloody thread. It's really not complicated.
Dinnae start with all that shish kebab talk either. Everyone knows that we'll be getting those after the breakup. It's okay, though, you can keep donner meat and chicken pakora.
Joke or not, not everyone has taken it that way which you should understand given the significance of the vote too many posters here.
Correct.
Actually it was in bonnie Scotland that I was first introduced to the glory that is Gravy, Chips and Cheese.
Oh man...
Gravy? A real man has garlic mayo on their chips and cheese.
I've just realised why our life expentancies are lower than the rest of the UK...
Salmonds an absolute toad.
I've always thought he looks more like a pancake with eyes. Not a fully cooked pancake, you must understand, but one that's only been in the pan for a minute on a low heat so it still runs a little bit when you swirl the pan around.
And to think many Scots are voting Yes on the "strength" of this idiot...
I know that it's only hearsay, but most of my friends who are voting Yes also think that Salmond is an idiot. They're persuaded more by the comments from the analysts that Salmond quotes. I doubt many people are really voting for Salmond, likewise people voting No aren't doing it because of David Cameron - no matter how much both of them try to delude themselves into thinking that the vote somehow reflects their own popularity.
EDIT: I've just realised that your comment isn't about what I thought it was. I can't be botherdd deleting this, though.
Am I the only one who has no faith in anything Ed Miliband says?
He's the least inspiring/believable person I think I've ever seen. He's more out of his depth than Ali Dia at Southampton.
He's the least inspiring/believable person I think I've ever seen. He's more out of his depth than Ali Dia at Southampton.
The BBC are an utter disgrace. Salmond owning that snobby bastard Robinson earlier has been the highlight of my week. My week's been fairly uneventful, admittedly.
What we're seeing is the full weight of the establishment coming down on us.
What we're seeing is the full weight of the establishment coming down on us.
Hypocrisy abound.Nail on head, the foreign policy line has been cited so much to me and I just think its faux politics. It sounds good and we definitely don't like Iraq and an association with Merica!
Seems particularly note worthy given todays date. The UK is a leader in Global affairs which dictates much of our foreign policy and difficult decisions are consistent... So many want to disassociate themselves with these tough decisions in hindsight when in reality, they and their local representatives were as involved with a rather Scottish looking government at the helm.
Then some want to be Switzerland and simply opt out of responsibility to forgo any share of the blame or any difficult situations, making themselves the lesser, in the process.
idealism is grand but if you can't tether it to some shred of realism it doesn't count for much.
Salmond owned nobody today, I don't think he answered one question that was asked of him.