Money.
Alex Salmond and Independence
- Thread starter Team Brian GB
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Money.
More like Alex Salmonds imaginary money. Doubt he will share that regardless of independence.
Okay.
Like I've said, there's idiots on both sides...
A few pics from Perth tonight.
Only had a compact camera but it was fun to push in and infiltrate the ranks and get up front and see their hustle and bustle compared to the calm they put over on TV.
Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85
YES Campaign by dinners85
SNP by dinners85
YES Campaign by dinners85
YES Campaign by dinners85
Having a wee practice before the interview - or perhaps she senses my Union Jack boxers
Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85
Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85
Only had a compact camera but it was fun to push in and infiltrate the ranks and get up front and see their hustle and bustle compared to the calm they put over on TV.
Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85YES Campaign by dinners85SNP by dinners85YES Campaign by dinners85YES Campaign by dinners85Having a wee practice before the interview - or perhaps she senses my Union Jack boxers
Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85Nicola Sturgeon by dinners85
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Looks like Angie Merkel got a haircut!
I thought she was the wee one from the Krankies
My guess is that Scotland will vote yes with at least 53%, possibly as much as 55.
"Do you think Scotland should be an Independent country?"
The question isn't "Is Scotland better off as an Independent Country?" It's asking, ?in a hypothetical world?, do you think Scotland be an independent country.
GG Scotland
"Do you think Scotland should be an Independent country?"
The question isn't "Is Scotland better off as an Independent Country?" It's asking, ?in a hypothetical world?, do you think Scotland be an independent country.
GG Scotland
To be honest, when I read the question I'd be tempted to vote yes myself.
"Do you think Scotland should be an Independent country?"
Scotland should be able to do whatever the hell they like. In a perfect world, they probably should be an independent country, yes.
It'd be something a big surprise if Scotland was to vote yes at this point. All the poll's are showing no, yes they're within the margin of area, but margin of error would suggest a split of some showing yes and some showing no. That they all show no suggests that actually the lead is with no. Then history shows that generally in independence votes, the no to independence vote is underestimated anyway. That actually tends to show in any vote where there's a more radical option - note the Lib Dems support at the last of the last election.
The yes campaign has been a lot more vocal but this seems to be somewhat misleading. If it does win, it'll surely be by an extremely slender amount.
The yes campaign has been a lot more vocal but this seems to be somewhat misleading. If it does win, it'll surely be by an extremely slender amount.
Aye, the bookies are saying it will be no.
But I dont know. Will the No voters really bother to turn up? Will people, when reading the question, change their minds.
I dont know
Friend of mine (NO voter) thinks the YES's have it.
Read something once that said undecideds are often just that small percent that don't want to give an answer for a variety of reasons
Will they bother?!
I think they might bother about this vote.
And as for the question, there has been a long campaign and an awful lot of shouting. I don't think the wording of the question is the key point for anyone now - they are voting for their choice of government and they are all very aware of that now.
There's more chance of Man United winning the Champions League this year than the Yes vote winning!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-place-scotland-yes-vote-alistair-carmichael
I'm actually a little surprised that the MP for Orkney and Shetland has already started to make noises regarding this; I think it's been touched on in this thread but it's surely a bit of bombshell the night before the vote.
Asked if he was suggesting Alex Salmond should not take for granted that oilfields off Shetland will belong to Scotland in the event of a yes vote, he said: "That would be one of the things that we would want to discuss. I wouldn't like to predict at this stage where the discussions would go."
I'm actually a little surprised that the MP for Orkney and Shetland has already started to make noises regarding this; I think it's been touched on in this thread but it's surely a bit of bombshell the night before the vote.
Asked if he was suggesting Alex Salmond should not take for granted that oilfields off Shetland will belong to Scotland in the event of a yes vote, he said: "That would be one of the things that we would want to discuss. I wouldn't like to predict at this stage where the discussions would go."
Technically you're correct but I don't think No voters are necessarily doing that. A large number of them (mostly those in the photo's I've posted above) are voting No because they're proud of their British traditions. They hate the Tories as much as the rest of us which is why I disagree with the bold part.
I agree that the wording of the question is irrelevant and that of course people will bother to turn out.
What's the weather forecast?
People voting Yes will be doing so, because this is their "chance for change" a once in a generation event. They will be voting out of excitement and passion. Many of those voting no will be doing so out of fear and the status quo.
Thats why I say will they bother turning up? Will everyone who has said they will vote no turn up, in the numbers the yes campaign will? Will the Yes campaign party in the street and just put that doubt in the voters mind, that when they see the question on the paper, they should change their mind?
I dunno. The bookies are probably right, a 3 point lead is a big gap, and all the estimates point the same way.
But at the same time, this isn't like a normal election. There arent two excited sides, this isn't Democrats vs Republicans; both sides voting in excitement. Only one side has the "once in a lifetime" chance.
Who knows. We'll find out tomorrow
I would hazard a guess that the nationalistic vote kind of cancels itself out on both sides - I'll admit I've no way of knowing any actual figures but these thing tend to balance themselves out. There are definitely people voting through Scottish nationalism as well as the British nationalism you mention.
But yeah, the question is irrelevant, even for the undecided.
I know what you're saying but it feels like the turnout will be as huge as the figures are pointing towards, I think the only reason for not bothering would be because they're still undecided.
I'll be interested to see the final turn out numbers on Friday.
Do Scots get to take a day off tomorrow? With the expected turnout it's going to be a clusterfcuk. Age analysis of the polls are interesting. The age group coming out in the biggest numbers could sway it. Got to school/work or vote . The yes campaign should have provided free booze to the younguns tonight.
Always thought Murray was pro-union.
Haven't you heard? With all the oil the Scots won't need to work after this is all over.
A ridiculous idea. You'd simply have 10 years of campaigning.
Only in public, in order to protect endorsements and merchandise sales. He's always had an "anyone but England" mentality.
You can't be a good Scot unless you hate England didn't you know??!!
Yeah, you're right. What ever the result I hope it passes off peacefully.
What money?
Swayed his views to what? I can only imagine the fanaticism if a US state were to vote on its secession, I'm surprised at the lack of negativity. Thought this would cause riots.
I see Salmond has been lying yet again.....it's hilarious that people are still taken in by this man.
Alex Salmond has been accused of deliberately misleading Scots about an independent Scotland’s EU status after European governments rejected his claim in a major TV interview that he has consulted them.
The First Minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU.
He repeated his claim that Scotland would not need to apply from scratch and would instead negotiate entry between a Yes vote tomorrow and actual separation in March 2016.
But Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, the Spanish Foreign Minister, yesterday rejected Mr Salmond’s version of events, telling the Telegraph that he had not even spoken to the SNP leader in two years.
He said Scottish independence would be a “bad result” for the EU as the “Balkanisation” of Europe was contrary to the organisation’s aims.
Mr Salmond’s claims unravelled further yesterday when Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, said an independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro.
Gianni Pitella, president of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, a political group in the European Parliament, also warned that an independent Scotland would have no automatic rights to the UK's opt-outs and predicted the application process would “take years”.
It is the second time the First Minister has been accused of lying during a TV interview about Europe after being asked by the BBC’s Andrew Neil in March 2012 whether he had sought advice from his law officers on the issue.
He said: “We have, yes, in terms of the debate.” However, it later emerged the advice did not exist and he spent £20,000 of taxpayers’ money going to court to keep this secret.
With voters about to go to the polls, the pro-UK Better Together campaign said the European governments’ denial showed the First Minister’s claims cannot be trusted.
Douglas Alexander, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said: “We know that Alex Salmond lied about having EU legal advice when he hadn't. On Sunday Alex Salmond said he had spoken to the Spanish, French and the Belgians.
“Now we know that too is a lie. We cannot trust a word Salmond says on Europe. He will apparently say literally anything to fool people into voting yes on Thursday.”
Mr Salmond told Mr Marr during Sunday’s interview that other European countries would ensure a separate Scotland starts life in the EU thanks to its fish stocks, oil reserves and renewable energy potential.
But Mr Marr asked: “Have you spoken though to the Spanish and the Italians and the French and the Belgians, all of whom have expressed some worries in private in the past about separatist groups and so forth?”
The First Minister replied: “The answer is yes to all of these points, Andrew, yes.”
But, speaking at a press breakfast in Madrid yesterday, Mr Garcia-Margallo rejected Mr Salmond’s claims. He said: “I have not spoken to Mr. Salmond in the past two years, not about this nor about the Champions' League."
The Foreign Minister said a Yes vote would be "a bad result for Scotland, bad for the United Kingdom and, of course, for the European Union".
A spokesman for the Belgian Foreign Ministry said he could find no evidence of discussions with Mr Salmond or his government, adding: “There has been no contact with the Belgian Minister of Foreign Affairs.”
The French government refused to comment on the record but an official said there had been “no negotiations whatsoever” with the First Minister or his civil servants.
The official said: “Our diplomatic contacts are with the United Kingdom. There can be contacts between Scots and French but they are always in the presence of British officials.”
The Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said it could not confirm or deny unequivocally whether there had been contact as unofficial back channels may have been used.
All 28 existing member states would have to reach unanimous agreement on the process a separate Scotland would have to follow and the terms on which it would join.
Mr Salmond declined to comment but a Scottish Government spokesman said it “has ongoing dialogue with many of our European partners on a regular basis at both ministerial and official level.”
Alex Salmond has been accused of deliberately misleading Scots about an independent Scotland’s EU status after European governments rejected his claim in a major TV interview that he has consulted them.
The First Minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU.
He repeated his claim that Scotland would not need to apply from scratch and would instead negotiate entry between a Yes vote tomorrow and actual separation in March 2016.
But Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, the Spanish Foreign Minister, yesterday rejected Mr Salmond’s version of events, telling the Telegraph that he had not even spoken to the SNP leader in two years.
He said Scottish independence would be a “bad result” for the EU as the “Balkanisation” of Europe was contrary to the organisation’s aims.
Mr Salmond’s claims unravelled further yesterday when Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, said an independent Scotland would be forced to wait at least five years to join the EU and would then have to sign up to the euro.
Gianni Pitella, president of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, a political group in the European Parliament, also warned that an independent Scotland would have no automatic rights to the UK's opt-outs and predicted the application process would “take years”.
It is the second time the First Minister has been accused of lying during a TV interview about Europe after being asked by the BBC’s Andrew Neil in March 2012 whether he had sought advice from his law officers on the issue.
He said: “We have, yes, in terms of the debate.” However, it later emerged the advice did not exist and he spent £20,000 of taxpayers’ money going to court to keep this secret.
With voters about to go to the polls, the pro-UK Better Together campaign said the European governments’ denial showed the First Minister’s claims cannot be trusted.
Douglas Alexander, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said: “We know that Alex Salmond lied about having EU legal advice when he hadn't. On Sunday Alex Salmond said he had spoken to the Spanish, French and the Belgians.
“Now we know that too is a lie. We cannot trust a word Salmond says on Europe. He will apparently say literally anything to fool people into voting yes on Thursday.”
Mr Salmond told Mr Marr during Sunday’s interview that other European countries would ensure a separate Scotland starts life in the EU thanks to its fish stocks, oil reserves and renewable energy potential.
But Mr Marr asked: “Have you spoken though to the Spanish and the Italians and the French and the Belgians, all of whom have expressed some worries in private in the past about separatist groups and so forth?”
The First Minister replied: “The answer is yes to all of these points, Andrew, yes.”
But, speaking at a press breakfast in Madrid yesterday, Mr Garcia-Margallo rejected Mr Salmond’s claims. He said: “I have not spoken to Mr. Salmond in the past two years, not about this nor about the Champions' League."
The Foreign Minister said a Yes vote would be "a bad result for Scotland, bad for the United Kingdom and, of course, for the European Union".
A spokesman for the Belgian Foreign Ministry said he could find no evidence of discussions with Mr Salmond or his government, adding: “There has been no contact with the Belgian Minister of Foreign Affairs.”
The French government refused to comment on the record but an official said there had been “no negotiations whatsoever” with the First Minister or his civil servants.
The official said: “Our diplomatic contacts are with the United Kingdom. There can be contacts between Scots and French but they are always in the presence of British officials.”
The Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said it could not confirm or deny unequivocally whether there had been contact as unofficial back channels may have been used.
All 28 existing member states would have to reach unanimous agreement on the process a separate Scotland would have to follow and the terms on which it would join.
Mr Salmond declined to comment but a Scottish Government spokesman said it “has ongoing dialogue with many of our European partners on a regular basis at both ministerial and official level.”
I really don't think people are. It the overall idea of independence(Salmond really has a very small role ) also there have a numerous people who have said their voting 'Yes' has nothing to do with their views on Salmond and the SNP.
You claim to enjoy debate but give silly one word answers to selected questions asked of you with no details to back it up.
You'll need all the money you can get your hands on when the cuts come in and taxes rise to fund the gaps in your spending commitments. Like the £450m cuts to the NHS Salmond make so much noise about protecting.
He's the face of the campaign and is the one driving it on. He's waited his whole life for this moment. It just surprises that even when he is caught out blatantly lying it seems to make no difference.
As I said earlier, people believe what they want to believe, @Pink Moon is the perfect example of this. At the moment Scotland is still part of the UK so I want what's best for them as I would for any country that's part of the UK. However should they separate I want our MPs to do what's in the best interest of the UK and not let a foreign land dictate to us what we can and can't keep. In other words UK first, second and third then foreigners.
Out of interest are there any polls about how the rest of the UK would vote if given the opportunity - personally Id be more than happy to see them as a separate country.
They have their own flag, their own Anthum, their own football team etc so I see them no different to say Belgium in most meaningful and practical senses from my point of view. I sometimes do some work up there - as I do in Ireland and Norway so even if there was some passport / currency change it wont make much difference from what I can see - Other than shut them up about being oppressed by London.
I'd certainly vote Yes!
It would be the death of the phrase 'I think you'll find, that's legal tender!'
perhaps somebody should pledge a referendum on this if they win the next general election - would probably get my vote.
Unless we get a yes today (crosses fingers)
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