Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

Rafateria said:
Deleted all the other crap from your post because it's clearly not relevant and just the usual WUM material :D

No team is ever complete so that is a real throwaway line.

You, as per 99% of United fans, need to find an excuse to cover our season because the actual truth, that we had a brilliant team and not just a world-class player, is abhorrent. Fact is your assertion that our success was down to the failure of other clubs really doesn't have a leg to stand on as this proves : 2013/14 Points Difference over 2012/13 : City +8, Chelsea +7, Arsenal +6, Everton +9.
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Your forgetting that you've still got that "brilliant team" your only that one world class player short, Sturridge is only injured and as you've already stated in this thread injuries are just something a good coach overcomes.

Your quoted points hauls there followed a season where United won the league with a squad that Moyes finished 7th with. We have also been told that we only won the league because of Van Persies goals and because nobody else had it in them to challenge (which is partly true tbf).
Manicinis City was hardly inspiring and Di Matteos reign was followed up by a brief spell under Rafa Benitez ffs, 71 points was all that City and Chelsea could muster. Improving on that is hardly mission impossible, your probably going to need a similar haul this year to finish fourth and thus is why I don't like stats, they're completely useless without context.
I think it's fair to say that the perm has stagnated over the last 3-4 years but the tide is now turning. The top of the league once again has some of the best managers around building excellent teams to compete not just in the league but also in CL and I can't see 84 points being anywhere near enough to win the league this time round, Chelsea are already on course for 90+ despite dropping points recently.

Last year was your year and you missed it.
 
Interestingly, Liverpool are only 8 points off last year at the same time What that does show is how many points were won in the second half of the season by Liverpool. About 15/19 wins or so.

As for RedCaf predictions for a Liverpool this season, reassuringly low at this stage. Removes pressure if rivals have such a low opinion.
 
PickledRed said:
Interestingly, Liverpool are only 8 points off last year at the same time What that does show is how many points were won in the second half of the season by Liverpool. About 15/19 wins or so.

As for RedCaf predictions for a Liverpool this season, reassuringly low at this stage. Removes pressure if rivals have such a low opinion.
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Only 8 is huge with half a season gone. It's almost 3 more losses
Drop much more than 8 and you're looking at Sunderland numbers, unless the only barometer is 'are we doing worse than Sunderland'
 
gasmanc said:
Your forgetting that you've still got that "brilliant team" your only that one world class player short, Sturridge is only injured and as you've already stated in this thread injuries are just something a good coach overcomes.

Your quoted points hauls there followed a season where United won the league with a squad that Moyes finished 7th with. We have also been told that we only won the league because of Van Persies goals and because nobody else had it in them to challenge (which is partly true tbf).
Manicinis City was hardly inspiring and Di Matteos reign was followed up by a brief spell under Rafa Benitez ffs, 71 points was all that City and Chelsea could muster. Improving on that is hardly mission impossible, your probably going to need a similar haul this year to finish fourth and thus is why I don't like stats, they're completely useless without context.
I think it's fair to say that the perm has stagnated over the last 3-4 years but the tide is now turning. The top of the league once again has some of the best managers around building excellent teams to compete not just in the league but also in CL and I can't see 84 points being anywhere near enough to win the league this time round, Chelsea are already on course for 90+ despite dropping points recently.

Last year was your year and you missed it.
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Two things are at play here. Firstly, Liverpool have been surprisingly poor this year. Even without the front two it's been very bad - taken 19 games to suggest there's grounds for optimism. But 28 points is bad.

Second point, Liverpool were a class act last season. Most neutrals agree with this and a good number on here concur also. Liverpool of 13/14 were as good a side to watch as nearly anyone in Europe. Over-egging the "context" argument to belittle a very good side comes across as blinkered.

I'm just gutted the transition to a new set of players has become so attritional. Here's to a strong 2015...
 
cyberman said:
Only 8 is huge with half a season gone. It's almost 3 more losses
Drop much more than 8 and you're looking at Sunderland numbers, unless the only barometer is 'are we doing worse than Sunderland'
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That's true. I was just looking at the two seasons which seem more than 8 points different, even at this stage.
 
PickledRed said:
Interestingly, Liverpool are only 8 points off last year at the same time What that does show is how many points were won in the second half of the season by Liverpool. About 15/19 wins or so.

As for RedCaf predictions for a Liverpool this season, reassuringly low at this stage. Removes pressure if rivals have such a low opinion.
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Sure the liverpool players are feeling less pressure if the mighty RedCafe think they're going to do shit.
 
PickledRed said:
Interestingly, Liverpool are only 8 points off last year at the same time What that does show is how many points were won in the second half of the season by Liverpool. About 15/19 wins or so.
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Liverpool picked up 48 points in the second half of the season last year. Only 6 times have teams picked up up 48 points or more over that period since we switched to a 38 game season, 19 years ago.
 
bishblaize said:
Liverpool picked up 48 points in the second half of the season last year. Only 6 times have teams picked up up 48 points or more over that period since we switched to a 38 game season, 19 years ago.
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Its funny really, you would think they were missing something in the opening half of the season.
:D <- clue
 
Browniee said:
Sure the liverpool players are feeling less pressure if the mighty RedCafe think they're going to do shit.
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Agree. Although I was pointing out rivals' attitudes in general rather than just here b
 
gasmanc said:
Its funny really, you would think they were missing something in the opening half of the season.
:D <- clue
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Yeah, the league's best two strikers based on last year's showing. Sold one with the other out.
 
cyberman said:
Only 8 is huge with half a season gone. It's almost 3 more losses
Drop much more than 8 and you're looking at Sunderland numbers, unless the only barometer is 'are we doing worse than Sunderland'
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There's only one barometer that matters - where we finish in the PL. If 60 pts is good enough for 4th because of teams like West Ham, Southampton and Swansea playing well, then that's what it is, if it's 70 pts then again that's what it is because those said teams drop away and Arse, Spurs, and hopefully ourselves, start playing much better.
 
bishblaize said:
You think that sturidge is now the leagues best striker?
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His stats were one of the best in Europe last season - we don't need to re-hash that here, just go and look at last season's threads. Gasmanc was choking on them :D

*Happy New Year Gaz* *waves*

HNY to you too Bishblaize ;)
 
Rafateria said:
His stats were one of the best in Europe last season - we don't need to re-hash that here, just go and look at last season's threads. Gasmanc was choking on them :D

*Happy New Year Gaz* *waves*

HNY to you too Bishblaize ;)
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I don't really do stats, they never tell the full story, even made Moyes and Van Gaal look similar at the start of the season.

But yea Happy Next Year .. Whoops I mean New Year of course.
 
bishblaize said:
You think that sturidge is now the leagues best striker?
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No, which is why I said "based on last season."

However, his absence has really hurt. His presence would probably have led to 6-9 points more at this stage.
 
gasmanc said:
Sitting on Liverpools physio table automatically makes you twice the player you actually are.
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Sturridge was excellent last season. Not really a huge leap to argue he's been badly missed.

Although your point has a wider truth - fans in general do tend to use absent players as the panacea to all their ills.
 
Sturridges' return will undoubtably be a big boost for Liverpool. Not sure if he'll be enough to save their top four ambitions though. They're not the only team waiting on a star player to come back.
 
PickledRed said:
No, which is why I said "based on last season."

However, his absence has really hurt. His presence would probably have led to 6-9 points more at this stage.
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Almost every other team above you could say similar, that they're missing a major part of the team that would "guarantee" them more points at this stage.

You're on course to concede 50 goals again. Not fixing that properly has been the bigger issue imo
 
bishblaize said:
Ah, that old chestnut.

"My one example outweighs the dozens and dozens of examples to the contrary".
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Just a recent example. You can look back through previous runners up and winning squads and you'll still see numerous average players who have played 20 times.

gasmanc said:
In a league where 3 of the title challengers all had a change of management and one of them was a car crash.
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Two of the three improved on their previous year's performance as did Arsenal. One of those teams brought in the best manager in the world too and both City and Chelsea had more to spend. It's stupid to try and discredit it.

NoPace said:
No sure a keeper is enough. Liverpool conceded 50 last year in the league and are on pace to concede 50 again. Surely the goal should be to cut that figure by at least 15. A robotic Lev Yashin himself might struggle to do that.
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We've conceded 25 goals this season. Not having Mignolet or Jones in goal brings that down by at least five.
 
shabadu84 said:
Almost every other team above you could say similar, that they're missing a major part of the team that would "guarantee" them more points at this stage.
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Possibly so, but the discussion had a Sturridge-shaped bent so my analysis seemed fitting.
shabadu84 said:
You're on course to concede 50 goals again. Not fixing that properly has been the bigger issue imo
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I'd be surprised if it's 50 again. I suspect Liverpool will pick up quite a few more points in the next 19 games, control opponents better and concede less while scoring more. Whether this leads to top 4 I'm not sure.
 
Barney said:
Just a recent example. You can look back through previous runners up and winning squads and you'll still see numerous average players who have played 20 times.
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Name one with as many in a single team. League appearances only.
 
Barney said:
I completely disagree with this. We came within two points of winning the league with Glen Johnson, Simon Mignolet, Aly Cissokho/Jon Flanagan and Toure/Skrtel.
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Mathematics. Statistics. Probabilities. Anomalies and outliers.

You won't come near fourth with that pile of shite, let alone second.
 
Rafateria said:
Deleted all the other crap from your post because it's clearly not relevant and just the usual WUM material :D

No team is ever complete so that is a real throwaway line.

You, as per 99% of United fans, need to find an excuse to cover our season because the actual truth, that we had a brilliant team and not just a world-class player, is abhorrent. Fact is your assertion that our success was down to the failure of other clubs really doesn't have a leg to stand on as this proves : 2013/14 Points Difference over 2012/13 : City +8, Chelsea +7, Arsenal +6, Everton +9.
Click to expand...

Eh? You didn't have a brilliant team.

What you had was an inspired Suarez, a brilliant Sturridge, a prodigious Sterling and a Gerrard who could put away the pens when the former three players dived.
 
TooBias said:
Eh? You didn't have a brilliant team.

What you had was an inspired Suarez, a brilliant Sturridge, a prodigious Sterling and a Gerrard who could put away the pens when the former three players dived.
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Kind of undermined a reasonable point with the end bit.
 
PickledRed said:
Sturridge was excellent last season. Not really a huge leap to argue he's been badly missed.

Although your point has a wider truth - fans in general do tend to use absent players as the panacea to all their ills.
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He's only one player your missing, you've had everyone else fit for the large part, Rogers and the 'committee' can be held responsible for not sorting valid replacements.
Also going on to say that Sturridge would have given an extra 6-9 points holds no weight either, that would equate to championship form. Add to that the 10+ that Suarez would have added in this projection and Chelsea wouldn't be catching you anytime soon.

Think it's fair to say that this Liverpool side is performing exactly as you would expect, there should be improvements with Sturridge but expecting the earth to move is probably setting up for dissapointment.
Liverpool played some great stuff last year that's unarguable but Suarez was the central cog in that attacking force in the 2nd half of the season, yes Sturridge filled in well too but the chaos Suarez caused gave that Liverpool side the space to exploit.

I remember a time United had a decent team and then we signed Cantona and despite claims he wasn't all that, he was the missing cog that was required to turn a that team into a machine, without him it didn't work.

It's been said a few times in here that the leaky goals need to stop and that is Liverpools main area of worry. Even before the attention turns to what's missing up front, top four won't be even close if the holes aren't plugged, asking Sturridge and Sterling to keep scoring more than you concede is a massive ask if your having 50 past you.
 
Goals can make a huge difference to a team's fortunes.

We've badly missed mobility and clinicality (is that even a word?) in the front line. Balotelli and Lambert 1) do not suit the way we play 2) are not good enough. Fair enough, it's Rodgers' fault for signing them.

The game at Old Trafford a few weeks back is just one example of a game which could have been very different if we'd had a finisher/Sturridge in the side.
 
Andrew Beasley:
Most chances created from open play in top Euro leagues in 2014:

Eden Hazard (Chelsea) 91
Lionel Messi (Barca) 89
Raheem Sterling (#LFC) 78
 
James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho
Rodgers: "There won't be much if any transfer activity from us during the January transfer window." #LFC

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho l
Rodgers on Sturridge: "He will be back here to finalise rehab in early Jan. He should be back playing mid to late Jan."

Chris Bascombe: "Liverpool are expected to strengthen in January - particularly up front." This is despite Rodgers' denial today. #lfc
 
Mignolet – Emre Can, Touré, Sakho – Henderson, Gerrard, Lucas, Moreno – Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling.

Rumoured team. Henderson at roght wing back annoys me massively. Why change what worked so well?
 
gasmanc said:
snip
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Of course Suarez was the main man but his performances actually dropped a little after new year when the likes of Sterling and Sturridge raised their game.

Also, not sure why 6-9 more points for Liverpool would be championship form - it would still leave Liverpool about 10 points off the top.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to 2015. Think this Liverpool side might start to get some positive attention again.

Happy New Year.
 
Barney said:
We'll likely have very different views as to what qualifies a player as being not to the standard of players listed in NoPace's post.
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I meant the players you listed in your post, which you tacitly stated as being not up to it.

The fact is that doing what you did last season with as many makeweights is, as far as I can find, exceedingly rare. Overwhelmingly, having quality in almost every area of the pitch is a requisite for a title chasing team.
 
Barney said:
Mignolet – Emre Can, Touré, Sakho – Henderson, Gerrard, Lucas, Moreno – Lallana, Coutinho, Sterling.

Rumoured team. Henderson at roght wing back annoys me massively. Why change what worked so well?
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Because Rodgers isn't a Gerrard-hater like me, allegedly. :wenger::angel:
 
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