Well, we can if we get it wrong every year. However unlike Moyes I don't think we've gotten it wrong with LVG, though he has to raise his game. It's not mentioned often but I think the lack of a break after the WC has probably left him jaded.
The future under Van Gaal - lay your chips
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If we keep playing like this till May ... then he has to go.
The "philosophy of the team is what exactly" the formation and personnel changes every week, if anything he doesn't seem to have a clue what his best team/formation is.
I mean it's almost as if he's on a mission to play all of his best players out of position. Rojo in a back 3, Shaw as a wingback, benches Herrera for Fellaini, Di Maria as a striker or a 10 and Falcao playing up front with another penalty box striker. Inevitably playing the 2 strikers leaves us short in CM which is weak enough already and then he wonders why he get's a twitchy arse playing the diamond. The 3-5-2 was the only way to shoehorn in the superstar names and not be left short in CM. If Moyes was benching Herrera for Fellaini every week he'd be crucified.
Whilst we may not be able to see the philosophy in action, he will definitely be implementing something in training. As we've seen with Moyes, if you do something for 9 months, it's not easy for a new manager to come in and change that. At least, that's what people say, mhhhmmm.
Said it a few weeks ago that results this have spared the performances but that won't last forever. At the moment I'm seeing no improvement.
I really don't understand how we could regress so badly, it makes no sense at all!
Moyes had no plan either if the various reports that got leaked are to be believed. One weak asking for 400 passes the next wanting lots of crosses into the box, Rio and Vidic leaving meetings with no clue what he wanted, never had the balls to drop Rooney/RVP even after numerous horrific performances together. He deserved to go. Look at Mourinho, comes into Chelsea and happily gets rid of their POTY for the past 2 seasons along with the "future captain" David Luiz. He knows how his side should look and who to sign no matter how big your reputation is. Van Gaal does everything he can to fit RVP/Falcao/Rooney/Mata all into the same team and we look ridiculous.
I don't think Van Gaal is too much to blame. Moyes left him a team with no Champions League football to attract top players and a team that was the most unbalanced in Premier League history. I believe Moyes set us back 3 years with zombie signings and it's going to take time too offload dead-wood on massive contracts. Top 4 is looking less likely with every passing game....But I think it's only in the summer that Van Gaal will really be able to address the urgent needs of the squad and plenty of names will have to go
Something is not quite right, it seems he is not good enough or the players have lost faith in him.
Either way if this shit carries on he will be sacked in the summer.
Either way if this shit carries on he will be sacked in the summer.
By that point we could be looking at another year out of the CL. If things don't improve soon then the board will have a decision
to make while we realistically still have a chance of qualifying for the champions league this season.
You were saying more or less the same a week ago.
I was being facetious
Ah it does now!
Do they explain the defensive errors? Or the zombie passing? Or the finishing? Or the aggression?
We were still able to get players like Falcao and Di Maria. They are top players.
Moyes hardly signed anyone. Just Mata & Fellaini IIRC both of which have been good this season.
Today or last week?
Results are not the biggest concern for me - it's the way we play. For quite a while now it's been Moyes-level of shiteness. We should be starting to see the effects of LvG's "philosophy" now, but if this is it I don't want it. I gave Moyes a lot of time to put his work into action on the pitch, but it was around this time I really lost patience with him because we seemed to get worse as the season progressed. LvG's start can be excused by a feckton of injuries and taking over a team with very little confidence, but injuries aren't as big of a concern anymore (still a few players out and a few players not in their best shape, but that's to be expected at any given point during a season really) and if anything our play is actually getting more dull each game. I've defended the 5-3-2 before, and if we had the right personnel for it I still don't see a massive difference between that and 4-4-2, but it should be clear by now that we don't have the personnel for it. Our central defenders simply aren't good enough ball players to pull the formation off efficiently. We're conceding very few goals, which is obviously a plus in itself, but at the moment it feels like LvG is happy with taking the safer option instead of simply trying to outscore the opponents, and as a result the football is utter shit. What's equally annoying for me is his selection - how can Ander not be one of the first players on the team sheet?! He's quality almost every time he comes on, and I reckon he'd only get better with more games. Fellaini looked like he might actually be a footballer at some point, but he's since gone back to being useless and LvG sticks with him for whatever reason.
I'm not "LVG OUT!!!" yet by any means, but he has to start turning it around sooner rather than later. He can't excuse poor performances and puzzling selections with "we have a lot of injuries" anymore. Our attacking movement is incredibly poor considering the talent we have on the pitch and that is something LvG needs to sort out ASAP. "Not conceding" is not a valid target for a United manager, we simply have to create more chances.
I'm not "LVG OUT!!!" yet by any means, but he has to start turning it around sooner rather than later. He can't excuse poor performances and puzzling selections with "we have a lot of injuries" anymore. Our attacking movement is incredibly poor considering the talent we have on the pitch and that is something LvG needs to sort out ASAP. "Not conceding" is not a valid target for a United manager, we simply have to create more chances.
As Shearer said the expectations of United fans are ridiculously low, he's inherited a team with RVP, Rooney, DDG, Carrick, Mata, Valencia, spent £150m!! Top 4 should be an absolute minimum and tbh we should be challenging for the PL, playing decent football and look like we're improving. None of this looks likely but we do keep possession!
Aye, alright then. How convenient that Moyes set us back three years, just enough time to excuse Van Gaals entire tenure here. And Moyes' 'zombie signings' have been our brightest players at points this season.
It all stems from the width though. Our defensive errors in that game came from Phil Jones being unable to pass the ball well enough. But our width has been terrible last season and has been terrible again this season. We brought in Shaw (who was attacking deficient at Southampton), Blind (who is a better DM) and Di Maria (who is a direct player anyway). We haven't addressed our width issue at all, this is why Young looks immense in our team when he does play because at least he can put in a decent cross a few times a game and that is more than any of our current wide players can do atm.
Width is our issue, it puts much more pressure on our strikers because they're working on crumbs as witnessed in this game. It also makes us very easy to defend against because the main danger comes through the middle. We're easy to play against atm.
That's the problem....Signing good players instead of special players will turn you into Everton. Moyes brought a mid-table mentality to a group of winners and the damage will set us back a few seasons
We don't have the right central defenders for three at the back. Center back is one of the weak points of the team and we're basing our system on it.
Don't think he'll be anything spectacular, but I do think he'll just do enough to get you a champions league spot which is basically the minimum that was required.
I'm not convinced we'll finish top 4. If we don't, well OT might be a lonely place for fathead
I don't fit into either category defined in the op, I simply think he's making too many mistakes for a manager of his vast quality and experience, and sure there is blatantly an element of stubbornness about him that's undeniable that puts even more scrutiny on some of his decisions. but My major worry is, ultimately, he's been given 150m investment and we look as bad as last year in all honesty. Injuries haven't helped, but its been more down to playing players out of position and on field factors rather than not having players available.
Our defence isnt the worry for me, statistically were actually very good, and sure we need another top player in there, but its the fact that we are completely unable to create any chances of real quality and when you have rooney, mata, di maria, rvp, falcao, januzaj, hererra to look to, to both create and bury chances for you, you will be hard pressed to find a better lineup on paper practically anywhere else. so you have to look at the tactics, training and instructions being given to the players rather than "Oh well every attacking player we have is just out of form at the same time or unavailable, for 4 months" players like hererra and januzaj have been fit but not played a minute in a lot of games.
It just feels like a mess, we will hopefully scrape 4th this year, and have another flurry of investment in the summer, but im just not sure I'm comfortable with van gaal getting those players in, and neutering their effectiveness because of how we wants them to play. Can anybody seriously expect a title challenge from us next year, unless we spent another 150m-200m? and if we said 2 years ago would you be happy that it takes 400m pounds over 4 windows to get this team challenging again, pretty much everyone would agree that other managers could have done it for less and made the adaptation period more effective.
Hope I'm wrong because there's a good manager in charge, I'm just not sure what he's trying to do.
Our defence isnt the worry for me, statistically were actually very good, and sure we need another top player in there, but its the fact that we are completely unable to create any chances of real quality and when you have rooney, mata, di maria, rvp, falcao, januzaj, hererra to look to, to both create and bury chances for you, you will be hard pressed to find a better lineup on paper practically anywhere else. so you have to look at the tactics, training and instructions being given to the players rather than "Oh well every attacking player we have is just out of form at the same time or unavailable, for 4 months" players like hererra and januzaj have been fit but not played a minute in a lot of games.
It just feels like a mess, we will hopefully scrape 4th this year, and have another flurry of investment in the summer, but im just not sure I'm comfortable with van gaal getting those players in, and neutering their effectiveness because of how we wants them to play. Can anybody seriously expect a title challenge from us next year, unless we spent another 150m-200m? and if we said 2 years ago would you be happy that it takes 400m pounds over 4 windows to get this team challenging again, pretty much everyone would agree that other managers could have done it for less and made the adaptation period more effective.
Hope I'm wrong because there's a good manager in charge, I'm just not sure what he's trying to do.
Yeah, pretty much this. We'll finish either 3rd or 4th after a fairly unspectacular season, and hopefully improve on that and start challenging again next season. Hopefully.
5-6 years of underperforming in the transfer market, maybe? Apart from last summer we have been unwilling to spend big in the transfer market, except for De Gea who is turning into a world class keeper and van Persie who had a brilliant first season with us. Mata and Fellaini were costly but have not impressed. Nani, Valencia, Chicharito and a few others have had their moments but too many players have failed to make an impact to various degree: Anderson, Jones, Smalling, Young just to mention a few. Herrera, Shaw and Falcao do not look like 30m players, and neither do Fellaini and Mata.
Contrast this with Mou's Chelsea. They went out and bought Matic, Fabregas and Costa and all three of them are now key players for them. That is how you play the transfer market. It will be interesting to see if LvG can do something similar in his second season, if he is allowed one should we miss out on top four. We have a massive rebuilding on our hands: RB, CB, CM, wingers and strikers. In total maybe 5-6 new players.
I definitely think LvG will be successful here. Less impatience would be nice.
We will get top 4 IMO, and we'll probably see a 433 or a 451 next season with the addition of a new winger and a CB. Having said that, been very underwhelming so far, specifically in regards to the type of football we're playing. Have to say I expected more.
Pity Moyes didn't know how to use his own signings. And it's a stretch to say Mata has been one of our brightest players this season.
Back on topic, I think we'll get Top 4, just, this season. Not done as well as I'd personally hoped, but clearly the team is being instructed to play a different way than what they have been up until this season, and some of them are clearly not "getting it". We'll invest again heavily in the summer. And hopefully mount a title challenge next season.
Personally, I think we'll probably have maybe two years of LVG, and I see someone like Pep stepping in once LVG steps down/resigns/gets sacked, maybe even after the second season if we don't mount a serious title challenge.
There is a diminishing number of elite world class managers of sufficient allure for the club-to-club international merry go round. And some of those who were tipped as long term greats have gone off the boil. So its LvG or bust for the foreseeable.
Was about to start a thread with a poll for how everyone is feeling about LVG but then I saw this thread which was basically asking the same question.
Can we have a poll added this to by any chance? Would be good to see the general consensus on here in percentage form.
It's not about being a "Top Red" or whatever but I personally think everyone on here has been massively overreacting to everything since the Soton defeat. It was actually comical coming on here just after the game finished tonight and seeing the amount of threads that had been created. Rome wasn't built in a day and every time I listen to LVG I am reassured he knows what he is doing, and his CV certainly supports him. He's also new to the Premier League so is still learning himself but we're still in the top 4 and in the FA Cup.
EDIT: Didn't realise "der pot" (backwards) is a swear word on here now.
Can we have a poll added this to by any chance? Would be good to see the general consensus on here in percentage form.
It's not about being a "Top Red" or whatever but I personally think everyone on here has been massively overreacting to everything since the Soton defeat. It was actually comical coming on here just after the game finished tonight and seeing the amount of threads that had been created. Rome wasn't built in a day and every time I listen to LVG I am reassured he knows what he is doing, and his CV certainly supports him. He's also new to the Premier League so is still learning himself but we're still in the top 4 and in the FA Cup.
EDIT: Didn't realise "der pot" (backwards) is a swear word on here now.
This is usually right around the time his team goes on a run and really improves, right? So he gets the rest of the season. Get into Europe and maybe win the FA Cup and call it good. If he's going to persist with the 3-5-2, he needs to either play Carrick or Blind in the middle of the defense to bring the ball out from the back. Unfortunately this means one of Herrera or Di Maria get left out. Unlikely to be Di Maria despite the fact that Herrera has performed much better in the last couple games.
Scolari was another.And does di Matteo count?
Chelsea are a bit unique in that though...
Real Madrid: Hiddink, Camacho, there's been a ton hired halfway through seasons and then dropped...
Ferrer at Barca, not sure if LVG walked or was pushed the second time...Tabárez and Faith Terim (that AC Milan team were a hell of a lot of fun
) at Milan...and of course our friend Rafa at Inter I think we get top four (barely) and he continues to overhaul the squad to something more to his liking. He buys/promotes 1 or 2 fullbacks, a ball playing CB, Strootman, 1 winger, and 1 winger/wide forward. We switch to 4-3-3 as our base formation with 4-4-2 diamond and rarely 3-5-2 being used. We don't pick up our buy option for Falcao and Di Maria is sold to PSG. The team starts off slowly while new players integrate but we pick up steam around the new year and finish third.
Of course this is worth exactly what you paid to read it, because who knows what van Gaal will actually do. The only think I can say for sure is that we will see a lot of changes in the squad this summer due to problems with the current set of players.
Of course this is worth exactly what you paid to read it, because who knows what van Gaal will actually do. The only think I can say for sure is that we will see a lot of changes in the squad this summer due to problems with the current set of players.
Why shaft him? To appoint Giggs? Where would that leave us?
Also, we'd look a very suspect job to any potential suitors should we sack a second manager in a row so hastily. Not that there'll be many top managers available in the summer...
Also, we'd look a very suspect job to any potential suitors should we sack a second manager in a row so hastily. Not that there'll be many top managers available in the summer...
Predictions as I see things now:
- We won't finish in the top 4 this season; we'll be behind Arsenal and one of Spurs/Liverpool/Southampton. Should qualify for Europa.
- Despite this LVG will be supported in the summer transfer window (pretty safe bet given the lack of alternative managers at the moment, plus the club will need Champions League football in 2016/17 due to the adidas contract).
- Qualify for the Champions League the following season.
- Miss out on the FA Cup this season probably to Arsenal (otherwise Liverpool) but reach at least one final in either domestic cup in the following two seasons.
- At least one academy player will become a regular for us in that time, but many promising kids (e.g. Pereira) will move on due to lack of opportunities.
- When he leaves us, LVG will have us in better shape than Moyes managed, and possibly even Sir Alex in terms of the quality of the squad.
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Okay here's my predictions:
- We'll finish 3rd this season just ahead of Arsenal or Southampton by a couple of points.
- We'll win the FA Cup
- van Gaal will be given a big budget in the summer again and he'll ship off a lot of players too like Evans, Nani, Zaha, Jones or Smalling.
- We won't win the title again next year but we'll have a nice run in Europe and win another domestic cup.
- We'll win the league before he leaves.
For context...
The Moyes Golden era.
The Moyes Golden era.