The first half against Arsenal was us being positive, you wont be seeing that again anytime soon!
Louis Van Gaal - Press Conference vs Tottenham - 13.03.15
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The first half against Arsenal was us being positive, you wont be seeing that again anytime soon!
Why not? We played well and probably would have gone on to win had Valencia not handed a goal to Welbeck. It's a blow to the confidence but hopefully our players aren't that soft mentally...
Arsenal were all over us long before they scored. We gave them the initiative with Van Gaal's negative half time subs, subs that were 'tactical' by all accounts. If Van Gaal thought the first half was too open I doubt he'll want to set up like that again.
The Leicester (A) result continues to hamstring us.
Solution may be to provide some quality scoring chances maybe? Not just Falcao, but for all the strikers. Even the best strikers will miss a couple of chances during a match, we need to be creating more than 1 or 2 half chances.
Exactly. Any striker would struggle in our team.
That and teach Falcao how to controll the ball.
Nay, that means Fellaini plays as a #10 again, damn it
On the 2nd half we were better than Arsenal until their 2nd goal.. ... Arsenal had 1 chance.. which was due to Smalling's inability to control the ball.. We had one chance where De Maria shot outside..Well that's a massive exaggeration.
Pretty sure it was end-end from start to finish.
Rooney not struggling as much as Falcao it seems...
Fantastic observation, you're absolutely right, I think.
Can't say I agree. Basically, Rafael's cavalier play gave Leicester the impetus. Sure it was a dive but he gave Vardy the opportunity to do it. What I read from your post is you'd rather have the considerable risk of Rafael costing us points versus Valencia generally being compotent and costing us points once every 15 matches or so.
I like Rafael a lot, don't get me wrong. But he is rash and hot headed and right now LvG is into playing it safe, hence Valencia being first choice at right back.
I agree - he is the Busquets of RBs for us (consistent, steady, rarely scores, occasional howler). Rafael is the Iniesta it seems (great but can be insipid too on his day, injured half the time, scores)
Valencia is generally very solid and has been very good in an ever-changing defence. Rafael is a better full back than Valencia and gives the team fantastic energy and bite. Him missing might not be due his personal form, but more due to Di Maria playing on the right making that side defensively weak. A combination of Valencia and Rafael is could be potentially better balance. It has worked in the past.
I'd still prefer Rafael as first choice, mind.
I'd still prefer Rafael as first choice, mind.
Other than the Liverpool game, I think Valencia's best game was when he played on the right side of a midfield diamond, he appeared tailor made for that role. He's a good option but he still does not understand things like being in sync with the center backs when playing a higher line, the offside trap and such stuff that you only ever know if you've played as a defender for most of your career. The mis-wieghted pass he played in the Arsenal game might be less catastrophic if done about 25 yards higher up the pitch than in his own half.
Everton game he was great in that formation. Always wondered why he's never used him there again.. Added steal and energy.. Basically Herrera but more solid.
Herrera can release the strikers early with a killer pass from that position, Tony can't but he drives with the ball at pace which can be a great asset against teams willing to sit near the box.
Well put Pogue I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely correct.
As others have noted, whoever is at RB is being horribly exposed by the formations. Most teams have a 'combination' on each side of the pitch - which is what Valencia works well in.
But LVG keeps either playing a midfield diamond where the 'right midfielder' is completely tucked in (Herrera or Fellaini) or sticking Di Maria all the way up the pitch with no defensive duties whatsoever.
Doesn't matter if it's Rafa or Tony or Gary Neville, if you've got a player basically being alone on his side of the pitch, he's going to struggle defensively and offensively. There's no balance at present.
But LVG keeps either playing a midfield diamond where the 'right midfielder' is completely tucked in (Herrera or Fellaini) or sticking Di Maria all the way up the pitch with no defensive duties whatsoever.
Doesn't matter if it's Rafa or Tony or Gary Neville, if you've got a player basically being alone on his side of the pitch, he's going to struggle defensively and offensively. There's no balance at present.
Very well said Pogue. I never thought I'd be agreeing with you over this subject and I doubt you did either.
Valencia over Rafael for the rest of the season make perfect sense to me.
I think you are right that Van Gaal believes that but in reality Valencia is far more likely to do any of the above. I have never seen a United player give away more needless fouls than Valencia. Nobody appears to notice because he does it with a stoic look on his face rather than Rafael's more "passionate" mannerisms.
How can he leave Rafa out now? if he was worried about him giving away chances then he should drop Valencia for Monday's shocker. Rafael is just better in every way.
Exactly. That picture would make sense if it weren't for the fact that Valencia is just as likely to do any of that. Hell he gave away a dangerous free kick on the edge of the area in the last game, that he was supposedly good in bar the mistakes for both goals. 'That' Vardy incident was ludicrous and absolutely anyone we played there would have been shafted by Clattenburg in the same way, after all, all he did was run behind him without touching him, as if Valencia wouldn't have done that too.
Furthermore I find it amusing that Pogue is being praised for his post that references Rafael's terrible performance against Cambridge away. It's true he didn't do a lot as he was sat on the bench all game! He didn't even play vs Cambridge.
To make it even better it was Valencia who was the player who had a shocker in that game (3.9 average rating).
I can't believe there's a serious debate over who's the better RB.
Valencia overall has done an admirable job, though he had a huge hand in BOTH goals v Arsenal, but Rafael is without any question the better RB.
Valencia overall has done an admirable job, though he had a huge hand in BOTH goals v Arsenal, but Rafael is without any question the better RB.
I was discussing this with my brother at the end of the game on Monday. The loss was terrible for so many reasons. It killed Blacketts confidence, Rafael has hardly been seen at RB since, it stopped our diamond of Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Rooney (which lead to some of our best play). In that game, when we were 3-1 Falcao had an outrageous attempt which hit the bar but would have made it 4-1. (That match followed the QPR game where we looked fantastic going forward as well).
Its resulted in more emphasis on the weakest point of our team (defence) which hasnt really improved but has seen our attack suffer (which has seen Herrera sacrificed, hardly seen Mata, Falcao left out due to lack of service but taking the blame, Rooney being pushed into midfield for a big chunk)
Furthermore I find it amusing that Pogue is being praised for his post that references Rafael's terrible performance against Cambridge away. It's true he didn't do a lot as he was sat on the bench all game! He didn't even play vs Cambridge.
To make it even better it was Valencia who was the player who had a shocker in that game (3.9 average rating).
Top, top post. Thank you! How do people comment 'great post, mate' over literally fabricated nonsense...? It's comical.
As you said, Rafael didn't play a single minute in that game, Valencia did and had a shocker, and now Rafael's being criticised for it!
Pretty much sums up the bizarre thinking that's going on this season.
Agreed, I've thought this myself so many times!
Again, it's a case of players being rewarded for sub-par performances with yet more game time. Something Van Gaal has made worryingly habitual this season - most notably with the utterly useless Falcao and RvP enjoying more game time than our best striker...
This is something could well cost us top 4 (and LvG his job?), it's infuriating.
Again, agreed, weird how Fergie won titles with Rafael at RB isn't it? And yet suddenly Van Gaal's 'wizardry' has everyone convinced that Tony effing Vee is a better RB than him...
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Not only did Ferguson haul hardware with Rafael at RB, apart from his injuries Rafael was fantastic. Not all world XI, not legend material, but quite a few notches above anything Valencia has shown us this season.
Bizarre.
Bizarre.
I think it's fair to say rafael has regressed just like a few others since Fergie left
Agreed. When Rafael concentrates and focuses on his duties he is very good. He proved this a couple of years ago when he was borderline player of the year. When he is not disciplined he makes too many mistakes and fouls when trying to recover. Being a defender they are usually in dangerous positions. The last 2 years he has lacked discipline.
Exactly. That picture would make sense if it weren't for the fact that Valencia is just as likely to do any of that. Hell he gave away a dangerous free kick on the edge of the area in the last game, that he was supposedly good in bar the mistakes for both goals. 'That' Vardy incident was ludicrous and absolutely anyone we played there would have been shafted by Clattenburg in the same way, after all, all he did was run behind him without touching him, as if Valencia wouldn't have done that too.
Furthermore I find it amusing that Pogue is being praised for his post that references Rafael's terrible performance against Cambridge away. It's true he didn't do a lot as he was sat on the bench all game! He didn't even play vs Cambridge.
To make it even better it was Valencia who was the player who had a shocker in that game (3.9 average rating).
Perhaps because people are smart enough to know I got my lower league opposition mixed up? Think it was Yeovil? Can't be arsed checking but there was definitely a game against lower league opposition when he was crap. It was the game where him and Shaw both started (for the first time in ages) and both got the hook at half time. I'm not making up pretend bad performances about games he didn't play in, obviously.
Well done on making yourself laugh twice with your own post though. Have you considered trying your hand at standup?
That was when he fractured his cheekbone early on and played on anyway until half time. Maybe they're not as smart as you think!
I think 'owned' sums this exchange up suitably. Priceless!No. Not that game.
I wasn't laughing at my own post I was laughing at yours (more the reaction to it nothing personal). As for the game you mean it was Yeovil away. Rafael was fine (well passable anyway) performance wise but broke his cheekbone and didn't come out for the second half. Shaw got subbed for an injury too. Nothing like Valencia's shocker against Cambridge though. It was goodf of you to bring that up because people had forgotten that sorry performance.
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It's the only cup game he has played this season.
Gah. This is going to drive me crazy. I have no idea which game it was then. It definitely happened though. It was (I think?) the only game where Shaw and Rafael played together in a back five. Anyone?
Again, agreed, weird how Fergie won titles with Rafael at RB isn't it? And yet suddenly Van Gaal's 'wizardry' has everyone convinced that Tony effing Vee is a better RB than him...[/QUOTE]
This is just getting weird with Rafael now it was the same with Kagawa and Nani when they didn't play (in people's mind they just got better). Tony Valencia might not be outstanding but he's always available and is steady, rarely any player gets the better of him, plus he looks like he's really settling into full back and improving. Rafael plays on average just over a dozen games a season due to mostly his fitness issues. Yet are we are to believe Fergie won leagues with Rafael a permanent fixture at right back? I like Rafael, he's whole hearted and talented but is also rash and not the greatest defender. If we replaced him with a better right back that is not injury prone that would be a big step in the right direction for this club. Personally I'd keep Valencia as an understudy over Rafael as he is more reliable (fitness) and performance wise there isn't much between them.
This is just getting weird with Rafael now it was the same with Kagawa and Nani when they didn't play (in people's mind they just got better). Tony Valencia might not be outstanding but he's always available and is steady, rarely any player gets the better of him, plus he looks like he's really settling into full back and improving. Rafael plays on average just over a dozen games a season due to mostly his fitness issues. Yet are we are to believe Fergie won leagues with Rafael a permanent fixture at right back? I like Rafael, he's whole hearted and talented but is also rash and not the greatest defender. If we replaced him with a better right back that is not injury prone that would be a big step in the right direction for this club. Personally I'd keep Valencia as an understudy over Rafael as he is more reliable (fitness) and performance wise there isn't much between them.
You are right, it was against Yeovil for 46 mins before both of them were hooked off. He was disappointing if memory serves me right.
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/4092/Fixtures/Rafael
It was certainly that game and he didn't play well but he was playing with a fractured cheekbone. It's pretty harsh to use that as an example of him not playing well this season.