American Cops Doing What They Do Best

I doubt its entirely the cop's fault. Whoever is in charge clearly hasn't made sure enough intel has been gathered and has told them to go in so heavily (I would imagine?). Why there would ever be a need to go in like that, I don't know, unless its a terrorist threat or similar that is actually happening at the time.

Surely they could have got the uncle with much, much less force? Or waited til he's outside where it would be safer anyway?
 
VeevaVee said:
I doubt its entirely the cop's fault. Whoever is in charge clearly hasn't made sure enough intel has been gathered and has told them to go in so heavily (I would imagine?). Why there would ever be a need to go in like that, I don't know, unless its a terrorist threat or similar that is actually happening at the time.

Surely they could have got the uncle with much, much less force? Or waited til he's outside where it would be safer anyway?
Click to expand...

After reading the articles and wiki, it seems those cops were fueled by notoriety, i.e. the A&E show that followed them. I'd wager they wanted to conduct that kind of raid for viewership.
 
Krovv said:
The Latest episode of This American Life podcast is worth listening to. The way these cops treat non-White people is disgusting. Fecking racist monsters.
Click to expand...

Has anyone making these sorts of comments actually lived in America and dealt with the police? We live in an incredibly safe place and the police have an extremely challenging job that places them in dangerous situations with criminals who may be carrying firearms. We also live in a country where people seek attention by claiming racism based on selected or incorrect information.

I find it deeply insulting to say the violence is racially motivated. That is a lie. Michael Brown was a criminal returning from committing a crime who physically threatened/attacked a police officer. A detailed investigation led by the black Attorney General found no wrongdoing on the part of the police officer who killed him. Nothing. No charges. There are many non-white police officers involved in other incidents. White people/cops are not racist.

The common thread running through these incidents is failure to comply with police authority or failure to make obvious that you are not a threat. People that are not criminals, that remain calm, stay in their car as instructed, don't reach for something that could be interpreted as a weapon, don't verbally abuse/challenge/threaten police, have nothing to worry about. When you pick up a weapon (whether it's a rock or even your fists) against an armed officer of the law, you are taking your life in your own hands. Every citizen here knows that. The cops carry guns and the first thing they do is assess what kind of threat you present to them. Give them a reason to think you might do harm to someone else and you are inviting swift violence. Peacefully give up, put your hands up, get on the ground, stfu, do what they ask, and you will have no trouble. Regardless of your race.

The video of the guy getting out of his car is a great example. In a traffic stop, you stay in your car and do as instructed. Stay in the car. Wait for them to approach the car and tell you what to do. Don't open the car door and act like you're fixing to get out. Don't fight back - give up. Cops are at a high risk during a traffic stop and it doesn't take much for their threat detector to go off. Getting out of your car before they even approach is a huge mistake. The peaceful and calm law-abiding citizen sits in the car and waits for the officer to ask them to roll down the window. Be polite and respect their authority. Simple as.
 
Yes I´ve lived there, and I´m half American and have lived in minority areas. There are a lot of racist and over authoritarian asshole cops out there. Not all mind you, but enough to cause concern. Now that filming is easy, a lot of abuse is coming out. Loads of people are sick of the the be polite and respect their authority bollocks. When will cops start calling out their bad apples? How about all the racist e mails? How about the history of the L.A.P.D. and the police torture in Chicago and their little black building? Again, when will police departments start coming down hard on their bad apples. This shit has been going on for ages. Just like right wing tea partiers are telling us . . . rise up against abusive big government.

There was no reason to start kicking the shit out of that guy in the previous videos. Why isn´t this happening systematically in England, for example?

But thanks for your whitexplanation
 
@Americano awesome explanation. Talk about rose tinted glasses. What explanation do cops have for paralysing an old man just because the guy didn't speak English? There was no need to body slam the guy like that. That's excessive force and totally uncalled for.

It really is time to call out this bullshit. If that was a white man instead of an old Indian fellow, there is no way he'd have been viewed as a threat. Most of these cops get away with murder and that is just plain wrong.

Also the way you defend cops' brutality is just amazing. :lol: Yeah all non-White people are guilty until proven innocent. Hey look, that black man moved "suspiciously", let's shoot him or he'll shoot us! Right?
 
Americano said:
Has anyone making these sorts of comments actually lived in America and dealt with the police? We live in an incredibly safe place and the police have an extremely challenging job that places them in dangerous situations with criminals who may be carrying firearms. We also live in a country where people seek attention by claiming racism based on selected or incorrect information.

I find it deeply insulting to say the violence is racially motivated. That is a lie. Michael Brown was a criminal returning from committing a crime who physically threatened/attacked a police officer. A detailed investigation led by the black Attorney General found no wrongdoing on the part of the police officer who killed him. Nothing. No charges. There are many non-white police officers involved in other incidents. White people/cops are not racist.

The common thread running through these incidents is failure to comply with police authority or failure to make obvious that you are not a threat. People that are not criminals, that remain calm, stay in their car as instructed, don't reach for something that could be interpreted as a weapon, don't verbally abuse/challenge/threaten police, have nothing to worry about. When you pick up a weapon (whether it's a rock or even your fists) against an armed officer of the law, you are taking your life in your own hands. Every citizen here knows that. The cops carry guns and the first thing they do is assess what kind of threat you present to them. Give them a reason to think you might do harm to someone else and you are inviting swift violence. Peacefully give up, put your hands up, get on the ground, stfu, do what they ask, and you will have no trouble. Regardless of your race.

The video of the guy getting out of his car is a great example. In a traffic stop, you stay in your car and do as instructed. Stay in the car. Wait for them to approach the car and tell you what to do. Don't open the car door and act like you're fixing to get out. Don't fight back - give up. Cops are at a high risk during a traffic stop and it doesn't take much for their threat detector to go off. Getting out of your car before they even approach is a huge mistake. The peaceful and calm law-abiding citizen sits in the car and waits for the officer to ask them to roll down the window. Be polite and respect their authority. Simple as.
Click to expand...

Umm ok Cartman.

Here are some points from the same DOJ when they did an investigation on the police department that officer was working in:

In January 2013, a patrol sergeant stopped an African-American man after he saw the man talk to an individual in a truck and then walk away. The sergeant detained the man, although he did not articulate any reasonable suspicion that criminal activity was afoot. When the man declined to answer questions or submit to a frisk—which the sergeant sought to execute despite articulating no reason to believe the man was armed—the sergeant grabbed the man by the belt, drew his ECW, and ordered the man to comply. The man crossed his arms and objected that he had not done anything wrong. Video captured by the ECW’s built-in camera shows that the man made no aggressive movement toward the officer. The sergeant fired the ECW, applying a five-second cycle of electricity and causing the man to fall to the ground. The sergeant almost immediately applied the ECW again, which he later justified in his report by claiming that the man tried to stand up. The video makes clear, however, that the man never tried to stand—he only writhed in pain on the ground. The video also shows that the sergeant applied the ECW nearly continuously for 20 seconds, longer than represented in his report. The man was charged with Failure to Comply and Resisting Arrest, but no independent
criminal violation.



These are not isolated incidents. In September 2012, an officer drive-stunned an African-American woman who he had placed in the back of his patrol car but who had stretched out her leg to block him from closing the door. The woman was in handcuffs. In May 2013, officers drive-stunned a handcuffed African-American man who verbally refused to get out of the back seat of a police car once it had arrived at the jail. The man did not physically resist arrest or attempt to assault the officers. According to the man, he was also punched in the face and head. That allegation was neither reported by the involved officers nor investigated by their supervisor, who dismissed it.



 
How many comments in here were set aside for the officers gunned down for trying to help someone?

How much coverage in the media for officers who were ambushed and killed "just because they're pigs"?

The easy answer is "Oh well that's their job. That's what they signed up for."

Sure. I signed up to try and help make a difference and enforce laws that keep people safe. Until you're out there, you have no idea how you feel approaching dozens of different situations a day, not knowing whether the person inside is going to pull a weapon or not.

My sergeant told me a story I'll share. He made a stop on a vehicle. 4 passengers. He approached and told them to lower the windows, and instructed them all to place their hands on the dashboard, or the back of the seat in front. Everytime they started to move, he instructed them to put their hands back up. He ran the car and based on the results, ended up calling for backup and arresting them. In the car, he was talking to one of the guys who was sitting in the back. He told my sergeant that as he was approaching, they were having a discussion about whether they were gonna drive off, or use the guns they had in the car to kill him.

The two points I hope you take from this is that you never know what's going to happen or who you're stopping. If my sergeant never told them to keep their hands up, he could have been killed. Secondly, there are officers out there who do things by the book and treat people with respect. So many people paint cops with one brush, but are the first to complain when officers do the same to others.

None of this is meant to justify the actions of officers who abuse their powers, or go beyond the law. But it's a shame to see so many just constantly badmouth and criticize all officers...even wishing death on them all...When it's a few who make the bad impression.

Rant over :)

For the tl:dr crowd...let's hold individuals accountable, from all sides, and get along.
 
Skizzo said:
How many comments in here were set aside for the officers gunned down for trying to help someone?

How much coverage in the media for officers who were ambushed and killed "just because they're pigs"?

The easy answer is "Oh well that's their job. That's what they signed up for."

Sure. I signed up to try and help make a difference and enforce laws that keep people safe. Until you're out there, you have no idea how you feel approaching dozens of different situations a day, not knowing whether the person inside is going to pull a weapon or not.

My sergeant told me a story I'll share. He made a stop on a vehicle. 4 passengers. He approached and told them to lower the windows, and instructed them all to place their hands on the dashboard, or the back of the seat in front. Everytime they started to move, he instructed them to put their hands back up. He ran the car and based on the results, ended up calling for backup and arresting them. In the car, he was talking to one of the guys who was sitting in the back. He told my sergeant that as he was approaching, they were having a discussion about whether they were gonna drive off, or use the guns they had in the car to kill him.

The two points I hope you take from this is that you never know what's going to happen or who you're stopping. If my sergeant never told them to keep their hands up, he could have been killed. Secondly, there are officers out there who do things by the book and treat people with respect. So many people paint cops with one brush, but are the first to complain when officers do the same to others.

None of this is meant to justify the actions of officers who abuse their powers, or go beyond the law. But it's a shame to see so many just constantly badmouth and criticize all officers...even wishing death on them all...When it's a few who make the bad impression.

Rant over :)

For the tl:dr crowd...let's hold individuals accountable, from all sides, and get along.
Click to expand...

Haven't seen anyone in this thread do that so perhaps your rant is misdirected. I agree that individuals should be held accountable hence the amount of firings going on in Ferguson right now. Couple of questions for you; Would you be in favor of cameras being implemented to record police activity? Would you be in favor of police departments collecting data about when their officers use guns?
 
Skizzo said:
How many comments in here were set aside for the officers gunned down for trying to help someone?

How much coverage in the media for officers who were ambushed and killed "just because they're pigs"?
Click to expand...

Not enough. Not enough.

Protestors and the press were too busy jumping on the false & divisive "hands up, don't shoot" narrative, mythologizing a criminal.

Where is the protest for the officers shot or killed for doing their jobs in Ferguson and New York?
 
Seriously , you're trying to paint the Ferguson PD as something other than an institution plagued by corruption, racism and incompetence?
 
Desert Eagle said:
Haven't seen anyone in this thread do that so perhaps your rant is misdirected. I agree that individuals should be held accountable hence the amount of firings going on in Ferguson right now. Couple of questions for you; Would you be in favor of cameras being implemented to record police activity? Would you be in favor of police departments collecting data about when their officers use guns?
Click to expand...

There's been plenty of badmouthing in this thread, but the death comments have been all over the place, not necessarily here.

As for your questions, yes, I'd be all for that. When I'm on patrol, we have microphones that we wear, so that any encounters can be played back on audio, plus we have a camera in the car that is on whenever we make traffic stops, encounters with disabled motorists, and DUI stops. The state budget here means, unfortunately, our department only gets equipment from lowest bidder...which I think is an absolutely horrible way of doing things, but that's a whole separate rant :) Downside of working for the State unfortunately.

But yes, I think all officers should be equipped with body cameras. Both to keep them honest, as well as help bring to light more of the abuse they receive from the public during day to day enforcements.

People film cops because they see a way they can try and get their 15 minutes of fame. Case in point, the recent video of the gentleman who was openly carrying a firearm, and trying to go on school grounds. Officers showed up after the school called, and he filmed them as they arrived, shouting abuse and saying he knows his rights and he can carry a gun too. This is a man who was trying to openly carry...on school grounds. There's all kinds of crazies out there.

Our of curiosity. Did you read the story of one of the vocal protestors from Ferguson who went to the police training scenario's?
 
Americano said:
Not enough. Not enough.

Protestors and the press were too busy jumping on the false & divisive "hands up, don't shoot" narrative, mythologizing a criminal.

Where is the protest for the officers shot or killed for doing their jobs in Ferguson and New York?
Click to expand...

All those vocal supporters, NFL players, all the way up Government coming out in support of a criminal with some "hands up, don't shoot movement"....which was proven false. What a shocker.

There's officers who overstep the boundary absolutely. But people are so quick to jump on the police, even without the full story. Some video's don't show the whole story. I've watched too many officers get gunned down because they hesitated, all because they're scared of what people will think, or worried about being disciplined for use of force. Now they won't be going home to their families, and some scumbag is out there waiting to do it again.
 
Skizzo said:
There's been plenty of badmouthing in this thread, but the death comments have been all over the place, not necessarily here.

As for your questions, yes, I'd be all for that. When I'm on patrol, we have microphones that we wear, so that any encounters can be played back on audio, plus we have a camera in the car that is on whenever we make traffic stops, encounters with disabled motorists, and DUI stops. The state budget here means, unfortunately, our department only gets equipment from lowest bidder...which I think is an absolutely horrible way of doing things, but that's a whole separate rant :) Downside of working for the State unfortunately.

But yes, I think all officers should be equipped with body cameras. Both to keep them honest, as well as help bring to light more of the abuse they receive from the public during day to day enforcements.

People film cops because they see a way they can try and get their 15 minutes of fame. Case in point, the recent video of the gentleman who was openly carrying a firearm, and trying to go on school grounds. Officers showed up after the school called, and he filmed them as they arrived, shouting abuse and saying he knows his rights and he can carry a gun too. This is a man who was trying to openly carry...on school grounds. There's all kinds of crazies out there.

Our of curiosity. Did you read the story of one of the vocal protestors from Ferguson who went to the police training scenario's?
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding. I did read that article, and it certainly shows that policing in most parts of America is not a simple and safe job. I agree with you completely about the body cameras and find police chiefs that aren't in favour of it very suspicious. You have a lot of problems that are if not unique to America, certainly combine into a fecked up cocktail that you don't get in other countries. Gang violence, gun culture, anti-intellectualism and a capitalist government that prioritizes the economy above all else amongst the ingredients.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Thanks for responding. I did read that article, and it certainly shows that policing in most parts of America is not a simple and safe job. I agree with you completely about the body cameras and find police chiefs that aren't in favour of it very suspicious. You have a lot of problems that are if not unique to America, certainly combine into a fecked up cocktail that you don't get in other countries. Gang violence, gun culture, anti-intellectualism and a capitalist government that prioritizes the economy above all else amongst the ingredients.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, appreciate the discussion :)

I think part of the problem when looking at incidents comes from the fact that people outside the US try and compare local policing, to how things are here. It just wouldn't work if officers here followed similar protocols due to the gangs, criminals, nutjobs etc. Not to say that officers handle things perfectly, like I said, they should definitely be held accountable for their actions. If that means body camera's, microphones, whatever..then so be it.

There's a fine line between officers being cautious for their own safety, and stepping into a zone where someone isn't going home that night. Officer or other. Sometimes that line is blurred due to circumstance, location, other people around, previous encounters, previous incidents etc.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Seriously , you're trying to paint the Ferguson PD as something other than an institution plagued by corruption, racism and incompetence?
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, that investigation was prompted by a non-event. Neither a grand jury, nor the federal government, found anything to prosecute in the unfortunate death of a criminal who attacked a police officer in broad daylight.

The police officer who rightfully defended his life and the law was hounded out of his job and assumed to be a racist because of the color of his skin and his job. The family of the criminal incited public violence, looting, arson, and gun violence that resulted in two police officers getting shot. The predictable political reaction of "blow up that police department" strikes me as reactionary and designed to appease public unrest. There may certainly be some bad apples and bad practices in that police department, but you can't tell me that there aren't plenty of honest, hardworking police officers of all races working in Ferguson who deserve to carry on their jobs and their way of life.
 
Skizzo said:
Not a problem, appreciate the discussion :)

I think part of the problem when looking at incidents comes from the fact that people outside the US try and compare local policing, to how things are here. It just wouldn't work if officers here followed similar protocols due to the gangs, criminals, nutjobs etc. Not to say that officers handle things perfectly, like I said, they should definitely be held accountable for their actions. If that means body camera's, microphones, whatever..then so be it.

There's a fine line between officers being cautious for their own safety, and stepping into a zone where someone isn't going home that night. Officer or other. Sometimes that line is blurred due to circumstance, location, other people around, previous encounters, previous incidents etc.
Click to expand...


Would you say the current guidelines and protocols in place are conducive to decreasing conflict between the public and the police? The us vs them perspective you allude to is prevalent and since firearms are readily available, I can appreciate that there is a risk there that is unfortunate but can't help but feel the police in general do very little to give off the impression that they are employees of the public and accountable to them.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Would you say the current guidelines and protocols in place are conducive to decreasing conflict between the public and the police? The us vs them perspective you allude to is prevalent and since firearms are readily available, I can appreciate that there is a risk there that is unfortunate but can't help but feel the police in general do very little to give off the impression that they are employees of the public and accountable to them.
Click to expand...

It would be hard to answer definitively, given there's so many guidelines for so many varying situations, but as a whole, I think the protocols are acceptable in "perfect situations". Obviously that includes things such as keeping a safe distance, the subject following commands, not being hostile or combative etc. Once those variables start to change, there's so much room for interpretations for officers on how to handle them...that's where mistakes can be made.

I think part of the divide between officers and the public can be blamed on both sides. Officers having the mentality of protecting them, but also sometimes wielding "the power hammer" a little too often. Although I think some of that comes from feeling so unappreciated on a daily basis for what they do, and not getting the coverage for doing heroic things. Not to say that the reason they do them is because they want to be on the news...but when all the stories about officers are negative, it's hard not to be a little bitter that the good things are mentioned so briefly in a 30 second segment.
 
Americano said:
Not enough. Not enough.

Protestors and the press were too busy jumping on the false & divisive "hands up, don't shoot" narrative, mythologizing a criminal.

Where is the protest for the officers shot or killed for doing their jobs in Ferguson and New York?
Click to expand...

Wow man, did you even read the Ferguson report? The town and the police engaged in a systematic money grab from colored and the poor people. It was not insinuation, it was a detailed report with facts. The 'respect their authority' manthra applies for people like you and me, who get pulled over for a traffic violation with no records and are always let go. Think about how a guy who's victimized by the system will react to any cop search? He isn't going to think like you and me.

It's like Fox news saying 'where is the apology from all the hands up don't shoot morons for lying'. The answer lies in the second report. Your post is incredibly crass. Here's some John Oliver just to help you understand the extent of the issue here

 
Americano said:
The funny thing is, that investigation was prompted by a non-event. Neither a grand jury, nor the federal government, found anything to prosecute in the unfortunate death of a criminal who attacked a police officer in broad daylight.

The police officer who rightfully defended his life and the law was hounded out of his job and assumed to be a racist because of the color of his skin and his job. The family of the criminal incited public violence, looting, arson, and gun violence that resulted in two police officers getting shot. The predictable political reaction of "blow up that police department" strikes me as reactionary and designed to appease public unrest. There may certainly be some bad apples and bad practices in that police department, but you can't tell me that there aren't plenty of honest, hardworking police officers of all races working in Ferguson who deserve to carry on their jobs and their way of life.
Click to expand...

No, Are you being obtuse here? The justice report clearly showed that not only Ferguson, but many towns are funded by a systematic racial system that's not fair on a section of people? Ferguson Mayor said the same thing 'It's not entirely representative of our department'. But it is. The problem here is, you are arguing there are some bad apples in that police department, where on the other hand, there is conclusive evidence that there were some good apples and a whole bunch of rotten ones.

A non event? A guy killed on the street and was lying in the street dead for 2 more hours is a non event? Dogs in Beverly hills get a quicker turn around time for emergencies than that.
 
The federal investigation was reactionary and driven by the press. It was also uncalled for because the incident that generated all the attention involved no civil rights violations of the criminal who was unfortunately killed by his own poor choices and aggressive behavior. The public was rioting and there is no indictment and no civil rights case - of course an investigation is going to find something, anything to appease the public. I am not disputing the investigation but I would have a lot more faith in the investigators and their findings if it was not driven by politics and public violence. It was the wrong climate to approach the situation, but I hope they can find a fair way to solve the problems in that police department and society.

Even this thread title here is judgmental. It assumes that the police are white, and therefore racist, and therefore killers. Do you realize there were officers of multiple races involved in the Ferguson police department and in New York? It is not an "us and them" situation.

Regardless of the past history, regardless of your race, regardless of your guilt or innocence, the best and wisest approach is to respect police authority and comply with their instructions. If you want to change the system, the time to do it is not when you get pulled over or arrested. There is a proper time and place for protesting and social reform - we can all pursue justice peacefully and with unity. Not by starting fires and acting violent.
 
Americano said:
The federal investigation was reactionary and driven by the press. It was also uncalled for because the incident that generated all the attention involved no civil rights violations of the criminal who was unfortunately killed by his own poor choices and aggressive behavior. The public was rioting and there is no indictment and no civil rights case - of course an investigation is going to find something, anything to appease the public. I am not disputing the investigation but I would have a lot more faith in the investigators and their findings if it was not driven by politics and public violence. It was the wrong climate to approach the situation, but I hope they can find a fair way to solve the problems in that police department and society.

Even this thread title here is judgmental. It assumes that the police are white, and therefore racist, and therefore killers. Do you realize there were officers of multiple races involved in the Ferguson police department and in New York? It is not an "us and them" situation.

Regardless of the past history, regardless of your race, regardless of your guilt or innocence, the best and wisest approach is to respect police authority and comply with their instructions. If you want to change the system, the time to do it is not when you get pulled over or arrested. There is a proper time and place for protesting and social reform - we can all pursue justice peacefully and with unity. Not by starting fires and acting violent.
Click to expand...

There's little wonder that why no one gives a shit about the poor and the minority when there's irrefutable proof before your eyes that people work the system and people like us come up with guff like you.
 
Americano said:
The federal investigation was reactionary and driven by the press. It was also uncalled for because the incident that generated all the attention involved no civil rights violations of the criminal who was unfortunately killed by his own poor choices and aggressive behavior. The public was rioting and there is no indictment and no civil rights case - of course an investigation is going to find something, anything to appease the public. I am not disputing the investigation but I would have a lot more faith in the investigators and their findings if it was not driven by politics and public violence. It was the wrong climate to approach the situation, but I hope they can find a fair way to solve the problems in that police department and society.

Even this thread title here is judgmental. It assumes that the police are white, and therefore racist, and therefore killers. Do you realize there were officers of multiple races involved in the Ferguson police department and in New York? It is not an "us and them" situation.

Regardless of the past history, regardless of your race, regardless of your guilt or innocence, the best and wisest approach is to respect police authority and comply with their instructions. If you want to change the system, the time to do it is not when you get pulled over or arrested. There is a proper time and place for protesting and social reform - we can all pursue justice peacefully and with unity. Not by starting fires and acting violent.
Click to expand...

It´s also driven by history, facts, video tapes, personal testimony, and an embarrassing federal investigation for the Ferguson judicial system.

As for the multiple races of police, the police is 94% white, and the population is 76% black. And then you can start delving into the outrageous percentages of tickets and citations to blacks, and how it was obvious that they were being shaken down to fund the Ferguson´s police and judicial system.

When is enough enough, and you start to lose respect for the police and stop bowing down and being so subservient and respecting their abusive authority?
 
Skizzo said:
How many comments in here were set aside for the officers gunned down for trying to help someone?

How much coverage in the media for officers who were ambushed and killed "just because they're pigs"?

The easy answer is "Oh well that's their job. That's what they signed up for."

Sure. I signed up to try and help make a difference and enforce laws that keep people safe. Until you're out there, you have no idea how you feel approaching dozens of different situations a day, not knowing whether the person inside is going to pull a weapon or not.

My sergeant told me a story I'll share. He made a stop on a vehicle. 4 passengers. He approached and told them to lower the windows, and instructed them all to place their hands on the dashboard, or the back of the seat in front. Everytime they started to move, he instructed them to put their hands back up. He ran the car and based on the results, ended up calling for backup and arresting them. In the car, he was talking to one of the guys who was sitting in the back. He told my sergeant that as he was approaching, they were having a discussion about whether they were gonna drive off, or use the guns they had in the car to kill him.

The two points I hope you take from this is that you never know what's going to happen or who you're stopping. If my sergeant never told them to keep their hands up, he could have been killed. Secondly, there are officers out there who do things by the book and treat people with respect. So many people paint cops with one brush, but are the first to complain when officers do the same to others.

None of this is meant to justify the actions of officers who abuse their powers, or go beyond the law. But it's a shame to see so many just constantly badmouth and criticize all officers...even wishing death on them all...When it's a few who make the bad impression.

Rant over :)

For the tl:dr crowd...let's hold individuals accountable, from all sides, and get along.
Click to expand...

The problem arises when the bad cops overstep their boundaries and terrorize the citizens they are supposed to serve, and the other good cops stay silent, condoning such behavior, and developing an "us against them" mentality. If police departments submitted to independent investigations, develop more of a connection with local neighborhoods, and treat suspects as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not pieces of garbage, then the collective opinion of cop officers will increase.
 
fishfingers15 said:
There's little wonder that why no one gives a shit about the poor and the minority when there's irrefutable proof before your eyes that people work the system and people like us come up with guff like you.
Click to expand...

What did I say? Was it the part about pursuing justice peacefully and with unity, in the spirit of fairness to people of all races?
 
Americano said:
What did I say? Was it the part about pursuing justice peacefully and with unity, in the spirit of fairness to people of all races?
Click to expand...

Hand on heart, answer this question. How do you expect anyone to treat an office with respect when past experiences show that there is systematic exploitation of people in their demography? Do you understand that what you type it out is only relevant to you because you are who you are?
 
adexkola said:
The problem arises when the bad cops overstep their boundaries and terrorize the citizens they are supposed to serve, and the other good cops stay silent, condoning such behavior, and developing an "us against them" mentality. If police departments submitted to independent investigations, develop more of a connection with local neighborhoods, and treat suspects as innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not pieces of garbage, then the collective opinion of cop officers will increase.
Click to expand...

You are grossly mischaracterizing the behavior of the police, as a whole. I have interacted with the police many times in many places and situations and I have never been treated like a piece of garbage. I have found that if you show respect then you will get respect in return.

Is it not the responsibility of the citizens to behave within the confines of the law, in a manner constructive to society in general? If you steal from a convenience store and then physically confront a polie officer, you are the one provoking violence.
 
Skizzo said:
Not a problem, appreciate the discussion :)

I think part of the problem when looking at incidents comes from the fact that people outside the US try and compare local policing, to how things are here. It just wouldn't work if officers here followed similar protocols due to the gangs, criminals, nutjobs etc. Not to say that officers handle things perfectly, like I said, they should definitely be held accountable for their actions. If that means body camera's, microphones, whatever..then so be it.

There's a fine line between officers being cautious for their own safety, and stepping into a zone where someone isn't going home that night. Officer or other. Sometimes that line is blurred due to circumstance, location, other people around, previous encounters, previous incidents etc.
Click to expand...

Another problem is unnecessary escalation. For a vast amount of controversial incidents, the situation could have been prevented by some common sense and level heads. The mental guy that was shot by 6 cops a while ago. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO SHOOT! They could have kept on talking to him, trying to calm him down, while a non lethal approach was worked out. Reaching for the holster at every scare is immature.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Hand on heart, answer this question. How do you expect anyone to treat an office with respect when past experiences show that there is systematic exploitation of people in their demography? Do you understand that what you type it out is only relevant to you because you are who you are?
Click to expand...

I surely do, just as a basic test of intelligence. If you think "your people" are being "systematically exploited" our country has many outlets to deal with the situation. Outlets that are peaceful and constructive that involve the law, policy makers, communication, and bringing people togteher.

Even if you think you are being treated unfairly, why would you act in a provocative way to be exploited even more? Why not follow the laws of the land and show respect to the police? When you are being arrested is not the right time to protest the police. That is a selfish and idiotic time to protest and a good way to get hurt. And that is at the heart of the protests and violence - a selfish justification for anti-social behavior that has no place in our communities.

Change can happen. Go to a city council meeting. Speak to your representatives. Vote. Start a website. Open a dialog with people in authority. Work with religious and spiritual leaders to discuss the topic. That is how mature and productive citizens deal with inequity. Not with riots and shooting cops.
 
adexkola said:
Another problem is unnecessary escalation. For a vast amount of controversial incidents, the situation could have been prevented by some common sense and level heads. The mental guy that was shot by 6 cops a while ago. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO SHOOT! They could have kept on talking to him, trying to calm him down, while a non lethal approach was worked out. Reaching for the holster at every scare is immature.
Click to expand...

That guy grabbed for one of their guns. At that point, there wasn't much choice. What if he had harmed a bystander or grabbed the gun and shot a child with a stray bullet? What then?

You can't put yourself in their shoes and second guess every decision like this. They are in very real danger at all times.

If he had just gone limp and flat on the ground and put his hands out, he would be alive today.
 
Americano said:
I surely do, just as a basic test of intelligence. If you think "your people" are being "systematically exploited" our country has many outlets to deal with the situation. Outlets that are peaceful and constructive that involve the law, policy makers, communication, and bringing people togteher.

Even if you think you are being treated unfairly, why would you act in a provocative way to be exploited even more? Why not follow the laws of the land and show respect to the police? When you are being arrested is not the right time to protest the police. That is a selfish and idiotic time to protest and a good way to get hurt. And that is at the heart of the protests and violence - a selfish justification for anti-social behavior that has no place in our communities.

Change can happen. Go to a city council meeting. Speak to your representatives. Vote. Start a website. Open a dialog with people in authority. Work with religious and spiritual leaders to discuss the topic. That is how mature and productive citizens deal with inequity. Not with riots and shooting cops.
Click to expand...

No, "I'm not thinking", it's a fact proven by the Justice Commission report on Ferguson.
 
Americano said:
You are grossly mischaracterizing the behavior of the police, as a whole. I have interacted with the police many times in many places and situations and I have never been treated like a piece of garbage. I have found that if you show respect then you will get respect in return.

Is it not the responsibility of the citizens to behave within the confines of the law, in a manner constructive to society in general? If you steal from a convenience store and then physically confront a polie officer, you are the one provoking violence.
Click to expand...

How so?

1. I acknowledge that the majority of cops are well meaning citizens and go about their jobs responsibly. The significant minority's actions are exacerbated by the blue wall of silence.
2. I have been pulled over many times, and I've been arrested thrice. In all my interactions with the police they have been nothing but helpful. I also take great pains to ensure that I do not give them any cause to be scared at any time e.g. hands on wheels, keys on dash, ask if I can reach for registration, stay in car, etc...
3. It has been proven many times that you can show respect and NOT get respect in return. This is backed up by history. Denying this is pointless.
4. If I allegedly steal from a convenience store, it is the job of the police to detain me so that the court system can work and I can face a judge and jury. Deadly force should be used as a last resort, against imminent threat to life.
 
fishfingers15 said:
No, "I'm not thinking", it's a fact proven by the Justice Commission report on Ferguson.
Click to expand...

So the thought process is... I'm being pulled over because I am (insert race here), not because I stole some cigarettes, so I'm going to punch this asshole (insert race here) racist cop in the face and grab his gun because he would never treat me fairly anyway. I'll probably die but that's better than getting arrested and getting a lawyer.
 
Americano said:
It was also uncalled for because the incident that generated all the attention involved no civil rights violations of the criminal who was unfortunately killed by his own poor choices and aggressive behavior
Click to expand...

No, actually he was killed by a bullet from a police officer's gun, something that happens far too often. While obviously riots and shootings are unacceptable, your suggestion of writing congressmen is equally absurd. I don't know how you expect people whose entire communities have been systematically persecuted to just trust the system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.