Nobody has really made the "number one ball playing cb" title their own but the best over the last few years in no order would be Ramos, Pique, Hummels, Pepe and perhaps I left out some others. The four I named are quite similar in that they are quite inconsistent and error prone and have been up and down in their form over the years (ie they will have a strong season, then a poor season followed by another strong season etc) and as a result none of them have left a significant enough gap between them and the others for it to be said with conviction that they are clearly ahead of the others as the "number one ball playing cb".
Who are the 5 best ball-playing CB's in the world (who can defend)?
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I'd say the opposite is true. Denayer and Van Dijk look good on the ball in the SPL and it's likely they'd do the same in any other league simply because that is part of their game, they are naturally composed players. It is the defensive side of their game that needs to be tested at a higher level, their ability on the ball is generally going to reveal itself wherever they play, although granted in the SPL for Celtic they will have an ideal opportunity to show off their ability on the ball. You put an average defender in the SPL and he can look better than he is but if he is an awkward player on the ball he is still going to reveal that.
Well it's all relative. Playing for the top team in the SPL naturally gives them plenty more time on the ball. Opposition teams, in general, tend to sit deep and that in turn, gives them both plenty more time on the ball. Van Dijk looks amazing on the ball and scored from a run from the halfway line earlier in the season. There's absolutely no way he would have been afforded that kind of freedom in a better league.
The point stands, neither are pressed enough in the SPL to show their true quality on the ball. In Europe, neither looked half as comfortable in possession as they were pressed far more. As I said, both look world class on the ball in the SPL but should hardly be mentioned in this thread. Lets see how they are at a higher level.
Silva, Koscielny, Ramos, Godin, Hummels.
The list should just be the 5 best CB's in the world since all the best sides are using athletic/mobile/ball playing centre backs. I laugh everytime I see John Terry mentioned as a top CB.
The list should just be the 5 best CB's in the world since all the best sides are using athletic/mobile/ball playing centre backs. I laugh everytime I see John Terry mentioned as a top CB.
I think there's a few, but no clear standout. Ramos, Pique, Luiz and Hummels are all up there which considering they all have their flaws proves the point really.
Luiz, Hummels, Pique, Ramos, van dijk
Ramos and Terry are you all having a laugh. Heading the ball into the goal is not the same as ball playing defender.
It has to be Pique, Benatia, Luiz (in a big match), Hummel sand Ivanovic (when he plays CB). Cant recall any other CBs who can pass and dribble past opposition midfielders.
It has to be Pique, Benatia, Luiz (in a big match), Hummel sand Ivanovic (when he plays CB). Cant recall any other CBs who can pass and dribble past opposition midfielders.
Phil Jones is your man. You also get genuine concern for the safety of those around him, and a constant nervous anxiety that he's going to make De Gea work harder than any of the opposition forwards.
Ramos is very clearly a ball playing CB, I agree Terry is having a laugh, he's not top 5 defenders in the premier league nevermind the world.
Bonucci is very good with the ball.
Chiellini and Pique.
Alderweireld deserves a mention.
Absolutely Denayer needs to be tested but he's been better than Van Dijk this season, which isn't to say Van Dijk has been poor, but rather that Denayer has been that good for Celtic. The real question is how much does Demichelis have in the tank.
Yep, criminally underrated.
In terms of definition, I'd be saying a ball playing CB is one who's confident at playing their passes under pressure. I don't think being able to play long passes under no pressure counts as being good on the ball, because any top CB should have those passes in their locker. The CBs that can bring the ball out of defence, can thread balls between the lines and can trust their ability to play these passes under pressure are what I'd class as ball playing centre backs.
With that said, the two best that I've seen are Pique and Ramos, with players like Hummels and Pepe deserving a mention as well.
With that said, the two best that I've seen are Pique and Ramos, with players like Hummels and Pepe deserving a mention as well.
Yes, I think that some in this thread haven't recognised the developments of the recent two years.
Boateng already made a big development with Heynckes - but the developments he made in the last season with Guardiola were real huge.
I think today he is the most complete of all of this defenders. I think it is funny that some mention Hummels who since two years is not in the top 4 or 5 of Bundesliga defenders.
Yes, he is the defender with best passing range in the world imo. Much better at ball playing than Chiellini anyway.
Hummel is still the best ball-playing, with Pique, Boateng and Ramos come close; although Boateng as the best overall CB among those.
Pique and Ramos can both hit a vast array of passes consistently and without much fuss. I'm not saying they're at the level of the Pirlo's and Scholes' of midfield, but for modern era defenders, they clearly have on the ball skills that are standout. Others have been mentioned in the thread, but I like these two for their roundedness and complete comfort in any third of the pitch - they're truly highly technical and comfortable defenders whose ability doesn't diminish even when in the offensive half.
Barcelona's system ensures that long passes in general are frowned upon, so we don't see much of 'Piquenbauer' these days, and since Kroos came to Madrid, Ramos tends to not gallivant like he used to, but both players still shine in passing chains and retention/release cycles of play and neither ever have a need to hoof it unless absolutely necessary i.e. last resort.
Yes it is, and yes he would. Being decent on the ball is not the same as being good or exceptional on it for your position. Kompany's skills out of the back don't mark him out as being a ball-playing CB to me, and he's not an ever-present name in the thread, so I'm not the only one thinking that.
Even when running through a list of technically gifted centre-backs, I don't think of Kompany, let alone as a ball-playing one. Jonny Evans' stock is low at the moment as so many of our fans have turned on him, but I'd say he's far more of a ball-playing CB than Kompany, and even he wouldn't be a name I'd think of when considering top-notch, passing and playing centre-halves.
Yeah that's the way I read it, he's brilliant defensively. Reads the game well and knows how to put a tackle in.
Judging from this season, Thiago Silva and Piqué.
Still so underrated as a pure defender despite his fantastic performances in the biggest matches like the World Cup final. What a player he has become and it's really impressive how his ball-playing skills have developed since Guardiola took over at Bayern. Easily the most complete centerback in the game today.
Met Sakho earlier in the week and I asked him if he was pleased to see me. He said no, it was still Rooney in his pocket. He forgot to take him out.
Boom boom.
Silva (Luiz is often thought of as the ball player but Silva is also great on the ball plus he can actually defend)
Pique (Perhaps not looking quite as good as a couple of seasons ago when he had puyol alongside him but sill one of the best in the world imo)
Hummles (I hope we do sign him as he is both a top notch defender and a very good passer as well)
Ramos (Arguably the best CB in world football right now? - Also one of the very best right backs if he still played there)
Boatang (Has developed so much from the player who was at City all those years ago - bet they wish they had kept him now!)
Honourable mentions to Mascherano when he plays at the back, Bonnuci, Chiellini, Benaita and if he could actually defend Luiz would be right up there as well.
It is notable though that compared to the ball playing centre backs I remember from growing up and more recently in the past it is a position that nobody currently playing jumps out as being excellent in the grand scheme of things
Koeman, Hierro, Hansen, Sammer, Baresi, Ferdinand in their prime are all somewhat better than what we have at the moment - well in my opinion anyway
Pique (Perhaps not looking quite as good as a couple of seasons ago when he had puyol alongside him but sill one of the best in the world imo)
Hummles (I hope we do sign him as he is both a top notch defender and a very good passer as well)
Ramos (Arguably the best CB in world football right now? - Also one of the very best right backs if he still played there)
Boatang (Has developed so much from the player who was at City all those years ago - bet they wish they had kept him now!)
Honourable mentions to Mascherano when he plays at the back, Bonnuci, Chiellini, Benaita and if he could actually defend Luiz would be right up there as well.
It is notable though that compared to the ball playing centre backs I remember from growing up and more recently in the past it is a position that nobody currently playing jumps out as being excellent in the grand scheme of things
Koeman, Hierro, Hansen, Sammer, Baresi, Ferdinand in their prime are all somewhat better than what we have at the moment - well in my opinion anyway
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I watch him on a weekly basis for PSG and he is incredible on the ball. What he does is keep it very accurate, he doesn't attempt long balls or through balls which aren't there. Ramos/Pique/Luiz tend to look for what isn't there and often they push up too far without the tactical nous to prevent the counter-attack if things goes wrong.
Silva has had 90% passing accuracy every year for 6 years more or less. For Milan who played a more long ball style he averaged 11 accurate long balls per game his last two seasons there which is an absurd amount. At PSG he still averages a 5-6 a game which is a lot already.
Silva plays next to Luiz and there is no doubt that Silva is the better ball playing defender of the two. Luiz is the better ball player of the two but to be a defender at the same time you are walking a very fine balance which Pique/Ramos/Luiz very often fumble to the wrong side on.
When Silva pushes forward in to the midfield to take up space there is often complete confidence in the team about it. When Luiz/Ramos does it, it is usually a lot more chaotic and stressful and you can see sometimes the teammates are questioning the move.
Pique passing accuracy is similar and he has the same amount of accurate long balls as Silva. Boateng has 86% passing accuracy in the league and averages 6.7 accurate long balls per game.
David Luiz averages the same passing percentage and accurate long balls as Pique and Silva.
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Very true. It is very telling that a complete CB like Silva is also the best ball playing defender and arguably he's even the best "stopper" too. His role is next to Luiz and earlier Alex so he's doing the stopper role of the pairing, while being a ball player too.
Not just are the ball playing defenders less good at using the ball, they are also much more shaky defensively.
What has changed is how much slicker your average defender is on the ball than in previous generations. With the overall ball-playing standard improving at the back, the best of the best do not stand out to the same extent. It's clear that we don't have anyone of the calibre of Beckenbauer or Koeman operating in the current game. Yet those who have been suggested - Ramos, Pique, Thiago Silva, Hummels, Bonucci, Luiz - are, on the whole, superior ball players than the top pool of centre-halves from previous eras (e.g. 1990ish - Kohler, Baresi, Bergomi, Vierchowod, Ruggeri, Walker, Sanchis). Of course Baresi is a cut above both defensively (as are most of the rest of that group) and in a playmaking capacity to what we have now, but generally the use of the ball has improved by defences at all levels.
Would need to see more of this from Terry over the years for him to be considered a ball playing centre back. He can do it, but didn't do it enough.
I do think that part of this is down to the rules being changed though
the old interpretation of offside allowed defenders a bit more margin for error and now they probably tend to drop off a yard giving the player a bit more time & space.
Also if you look at some of the tackles that used to go in and the ref would play on - or at a push give a free kick there is a ot that would now be a booking / red so I do think defending has become more difficult.
One of the best ball players I have ever seen... I find it hard to believe anybody who actually watched football in the 80/s 90/s would think of him as anything other than a brilliant passer / playmaker from the back - its what made him stand out because as well as being a fantastic defender he was a great player and user of the ball
even Wiki states...
Style of play[edit]
Baresi is regarded by pundits as one of the greatest defenders of all time.[7] He played his entire twenty year career with Milan, becoming a club legend.[8] At Milan, he formed one of the most formidable defensive units of all time, alongside Maldini, Costacurta, Tassotti, Galli, and later Panucci.[7][8] He was a complete and consistent defender, who combined power with elegance, and he was gifted with outstanding physical and mental attributes, such as pace, strength, tenacity, concentration and stamina, which made him effective in the air.[9] Although Baresi was capable of playing anywhere along the backline, he primarily excelled as a centreback and as sweeper, where he combined his defensive attributes, and his ability to read the game, with his excellent vision, technique, and ball distribution skills.[10] His passing range, technical ability, and ball control allowed him to advance forward into the mifdield to start attacking plays from the back, enabling him to function as a secondary playmaker for his team, and also play as a defensive or central midfielder when necessary.[8][9] Despite being a defender, he was also an accurate penalty kick taker. Baresi was known for being a strong and accurate tackler, who was very good at winning back possession, and at anticipating and intercepting plays, due to his acute tactical intelligence, marking ability, and positional sense.[8][10] He was also known for his professionalism, his longevity, his outstanding leadership, his commanding presence on the pitch, and his organisational skills throughout his career, captaining both Milan and the Italian national side.[8]
Baresi is regarded by pundits as one of the greatest defenders of all time.[7] He played his entire twenty year career with Milan, becoming a club legend.[8] At Milan, he formed one of the most formidable defensive units of all time, alongside Maldini, Costacurta, Tassotti, Galli, and later Panucci.[7][8] He was a complete and consistent defender, who combined power with elegance, and he was gifted with outstanding physical and mental attributes, such as pace, strength, tenacity, concentration and stamina, which made him effective in the air.[9] Although Baresi was capable of playing anywhere along the backline, he primarily excelled as a centreback and as sweeper, where he combined his defensive attributes, and his ability to read the game, with his excellent vision, technique, and ball distribution skills.[10] His passing range, technical ability, and ball control allowed him to advance forward into the mifdield to start attacking plays from the back, enabling him to function as a secondary playmaker for his team, and also play as a defensive or central midfielder when necessary.[8][9] Despite being a defender, he was also an accurate penalty kick taker. Baresi was known for being a strong and accurate tackler, who was very good at winning back possession, and at anticipating and intercepting plays, due to his acute tactical intelligence, marking ability, and positional sense.[8][10] He was also known for his professionalism, his longevity, his outstanding leadership, his commanding presence on the pitch, and his organisational skills throughout his career, captaining both Milan and the Italian national side.[8]
Both true, personally I believe the decision to protect the stars from the referees is the biggest issue. Diving and exaggerating is well supported by the ones in charge as it means the attackers has an edge and even though everybody hates it - it brings drama and entertainment to the game.
They can easily solve the diving and exaggerations by addressing it with new rules, but they don't because they don't want to.
There is something special about watching a game from the earlier periods when physical contact was part of the game, the passion, aggression and intensity just can't be compared to todays games. These days that passion usually shows up as swarming the referees, faking injuries and diving.
Would you care to name 5 CBs better than him in PL? Or are you even including fullbacks?
Sakho? Sakho who slowly telegraphs the direction he is passing to?
I'm not sure you've ever watched him play. His passing with both feet is incredibly good.
That's a notable example. But you can't seriously expect me to give specific examples of passes Kompany has done? He's a CB, not David Silva or Iniesta. But it's obvious from watching him he is very comfortable on the ball and has a good passing range. Don't forget he has played in midfield for a reasonable part of his career.
Yeah. He's most famous on the World Cup stage for his back-from-the-dead exploits in 1994, but his 1990 World Cup was near footballing perfection. There's a good video which, although most of it focuses on the Austria group game, showcases both his impeccable defensive and playmaking skills. His passing, off either foot, short and long, in its weight, delivery and consistency, is as impressive as any of the greatest midfield generals.
I almost spit my coffee laughing that John Terry even got a mention in this thread. He's probably the best CB in the league but a ball playing CB he's not.
I'm surprised that most aren't mentioning Bonucci more often. He's not that shaky of a defender when compared to some of the other names suggested here, and he uses his good reading of the game in both the attack and defence.
Definitely. I consider Boateng to be up there as one of the top 2 defenders in the world at the moment. He's still naturally inclined to defend aggressively and lose sight of what happens around him due to that nature, but he's been much more controlled than he used to be, and this has made him an even more formidable defender. Only Thiago Silva is better than him, IMO, at the moment.
In terms of the 5 best ones, here is my top 5 (in no order):
Thiago Silva, Boateng, Alderweireld, Pique, Hummels (a poorer season at the moment doesn't make me see him as a bad defender, yet)