Who are the 5 best ball-playing CB's in the world (who can defend)?

Dion said:
I'm not sure you've ever watched him play. His passing with both feet is incredibly good.
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Good thing that you are not sure, otherwise you'd just be wrong.

Terry is not a ball playing defender. He is a classic no-nonsense defender. Best defender in the league but not ball playing.

prarek said:
I almost spit my coffee laughing that John Terry even got a mention in this thread. He's probably the best CB in the league but a ball playing CB he's not.
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This. Its the same with Ramos. He used to be great on the ball a decade ago. Now he is just like JT.
 
goin4glory said:
Ramos is very clearly a ball playing CB, I agree Terry is having a laugh, he's not top 5 defenders in the premier league nevermind the world.
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Wrong on both counts. Ramos used to be good at it eons ago and Terry is the best CB in the league by a mile, just not a ball playing one.
 
Fortitude said:
Pique and Ramos can both hit a vast array of passes consistently and without much fuss. I'm not saying they're at the level of the Pirlo's and Scholes' of midfield, but for modern era defenders, they clearly have on the ball skills that are standout. Others have been mentioned in the thread, but I like these two for their roundedness and complete comfort in any third of the pitch - they're truly highly technical and comfortable defenders whose ability doesn't diminish even when in the offensive half.

Barcelona's system ensures that long passes in general are frowned upon, so we don't see much of 'Piquenbauer' these days, and since Kroos came to Madrid, Ramos tends to not gallivant like he used to, but both players still shine in passing chains and retention/release cycles of play and neither ever have a need to hoof it unless absolutely necessary i.e. last resort.

Yes it is, and yes he would. Being decent on the ball is not the same as being good or exceptional on it for your position. Kompany's skills out of the back don't mark him out as being a ball-playing CB to me, and he's not an ever-present name in the thread, so I'm not the only one thinking that.

Even when running through a list of technically gifted centre-backs, I don't think of Kompany, let alone as a ball-playing one. Jonny Evans' stock is low at the moment as so many of our fans have turned on him, but I'd say he's far more of a ball-playing CB than Kompany, and even he wouldn't be a name I'd think of when considering top-notch, passing and playing centre-halves.
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Jesus wept. That is up there with the worst opinions I have seen, ever. You seriously cannot have watched Kompany bar these past few months to think that. Kompany and Evans technical ability is not even comparable, and Kompany is far more comfortable on the ball and better at picking a pass out. Post that opinion on a neutral forum and the reaction would be priceless, you'd be laughed at.
 
AshfordLad said:
Good thing that you are not sure, otherwise you'd just be wrong.

Terry is not a ball playing defender. He is a classic no-nonsense defender. Best defender in the league but not ball playing.
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Again, just ignorant stereotypes. His passing is absolutely fantastic and he switches play with either foot better than any centerback in world football.
 
Are we talking "ball playing defenders" or "defenders who can play the ball"? Because there is a difference...
 
Oh Manchester... said:
Are we classing Mascherano as a centre back? He plays there quite a lot and definitely deserves a mention.
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Agree, seems to have been missed off the list. Thought he showed a lot of the criteria in the WC, as competent and ball playing.

Interesting a number of the list, also played in midfield at some stage of their career.
 
Dion said:
Again, just ignorant stereotypes. His passing is absolutely fantastic and he switches play with either foot better than any centerback in world football.
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In his hey day Ricardo Carvalho was the ball playing CB. Still remember the goal he scored against us. Wins the ball off RVN, dribbles and takes it outside running with the ball, launches a counter attack passes it to a teammate and then receives it back to score a stunner. He had the pace to get back too, Terry was never that quick and does not have the technical ability nor the vision to launch attacks on a consistent basis. He does have good passing but most top center backs tend to be good passers of the ball as they're rarely under pressure. As someone said, Terry is a no-nonsense defender, he'd rather boot the ball out of play from a danger area than bring it out. Nothing wrong in that.
 
prarek said:
In his hey day Ricardo Carvalho was the ball playing CB. Still remember the goal he scored against us. Wins the ball off RVN, dribbles and takes it outside running with the ball, launches a counter attack passes it to a teammate and then receives it back to score a stunner. He had the pace to get back too, Terry was never that quick and does not have the technical ability nor the vision to launch attacks on a consistent basis. He does have good passing but most top center backs tend to be good passers of the ball as they're rarely under pressure. As someone said, Terry is a no-nonsense defender, he'd rather boot the ball out of play from a danger area than bring it out. Nothing wrong in that.
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That's why Terry has one of the highest pass completion rates in the league, he very rarely boots the ball anywhere, he hasn't been "no-nonsense" in about 10 years.
 
BobbyManc said:
Jesus wept. That is up there with the worst opinions I have seen, ever. You seriously cannot have watched Kompany bar these past few months to think that. Kompany and Evans technical ability is not even comparable, and Kompany is far more comfortable on the ball and better at picking a pass out. Post that opinion on a neutral forum and the reaction would be priceless, you'd be laughed at.
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:lol:

OK then!

The irony in your post is wasted on you.

But, sure, put it to a poll in another thread - enough people on here hate Evans to make it unbiased... or perhaps not, as they'll pick Kompany by default.
 
Dion said:
Again, just ignorant stereotypes. His passing is absolutely fantastic and he switches play with either foot better than any centerback in world football.
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What a clueless post. Your posts show a complete lack of understanding of what is being discussed here. A ball playing defender has to be able to dribble and move the ball not just pass the ball long, JT never does that well. When he tries he just creates difficult situations for the team.

You seem clueless, your ranting however is excellent.
 
Dion said:
That's why Terry has one of the highest pass completion rates in the league, he very rarely boots the ball anywhere, he hasn't been "no-nonsense" in about 10 years.
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So your interpretation of 'no-nonsense' is booting the ball out at every opportunity? It wasn't meant as an insult. Vidic was a no-nonsense defender as well. Terry is the best CB in the league and will go down as one of the best ever but he will never ever be considered a ball playing CB. And most top CBs have a high pass completion rate because they aren't under as much pressure as the other positions. How many through balls? How many crosses? Can he take the ball out of defense regularly? Does he start attacks on a consistent basis? How good is he 'on the ball' offensively?Those are the stats that matters more.
 
Hemil said:
Would you care to name 5 CBs better than him in PL? Or are you even including fullbacks?
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AshfordLad said:
Wrong on both counts. Ramos used to be good at it eons ago and Terry is the best CB in the league by a mile, just not a ball playing one.
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Terry get's to hide behind 2 lines of pressure and never has to defend on the front foot, with zero pace to deal with dangerous situations. 2 months of playing in AVB's high line completely exposed what a one dimensional CB he is. When Terry was called on to put out fires, defend proactively and adapt himself to the positioning of less tactically disciplined midfielders (i.e when he had Gerrard/Lampard ahead of him and not Makalele or Matic) Germany won 4-1.

He's not terrible but he is a specialist deep line CB with zero pace and get's lauded for being a great defender when the reality is he'd last 3 games playing in any of the attractive and proactive attacking systems than leave space in behind and have attacking fullbacks I.E AVB system, any Guardiola team, Madrid Galacticos etc These systems demand a CB be comfortable on the ball and play a line high enough that the attacking players can press higher in the final 3rd without leaving huge gaps to easily pass out of.

He's not stepping out and closing the ball down quickly to start quick counters or bringing the ball into MF to add numbers and building attacks ala Hummels/Ramos/Pique/Koscielny. He's a major reason why Chelsea are the most expensively built BUS in european football since any other system would leave him horrible exposed.

If you want a CB who can make lots of clearances and blocks from inside the 18 yard box then Terry's your man which is why he still get's held in high regard around English football since blood/guts and thunder CB's get far too much credit.
 
prarek said:
So your interpretation of 'no-nonsense' is booting the ball out at every opportunity? It wasn't meant as an insult. Vidic was a no-nonsense defender as well. Terry is the best CB in the league and will go down as one of the best ever but he will never ever be considered a ball playing CB. And most top CBs have a high pass completion rate because they aren't under as much pressure as the other positions. How many through balls? How many crosses? Can he take the ball out of defense regularly? Does he start attacks on a consistent basis? How good is he 'on the ball' offensively?Those are the stats that matters more.
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No, I was simply referencing your inaccurate description of him. Same number of forward passes as Vertongen/Alderwield etc., almost twice as many key passes/chances created as Thiago Silva and same as Godin. By those definitions the only player in the world who is a ball playing defender is Hummels.

AshfordLad said:
What a clueless post. Your posts show a complete lack of understanding of what is being discussed here. A ball playing defender has to be able to dribble and move the ball not just pass the ball long, JT never does that well. When he tries he just creates difficult situations for the team.

You seem clueless, your ranting however is excellent.
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Your description of ranting is interesting. And again, if you ever bother to watch, he is responsible for starting lots of Chelsea attacks with his passing. He's contributes far more in an attacking sense than "Heading the ball into the goal".
 
AshfordLad said:
Ramos and Terry are you all having a laugh. Heading the ball into the goal is not the same as ball playing defender.

It has to be Pique, Benatia, Luiz (in a big match), Hummel sand Ivanovic (when he plays CB). Cant recall any other CBs who can pass and dribble past opposition midfielders.
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You can't say that and then propose Benatia and Ivanovic, who are weaker defensively and technically than Boateng and Silva.

My list would be Boateng, Pique, Mascherano:D, Hummels, Thiago Silva.
 
Dion said:
No, I was simply referencing your inaccurate description of him. Same number of forward passes as Vertongen/Alderwield etc., almost twice as many key passes/chances created as Thiago Silva and same as Godin. By those definitions the only player in the world who is a ball playing defender is Hummels.
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I take it you are talking about this season since you mentioned Alderwield(who has been great btw). I don't think stats tell the whole story,. I have seen Chelsea play and you don't need stats to tell you that Carvalho was a very good ball playing CB. Lots of things don't show up in stats, especially when you're talking about the build up play. That move Carvalho did against us i could never in a million years see Terry replicating. He just doesn't have the technique, dribbling ability or the pace to run with the ball. Anyway just for the sake of it i took down some stats of the players mentioned.

Accurate Long Balls per game
Boateng - 6.5
Bonucci - 6.3
Ramos - 6.1
Alderweild - 5.2
Hummels - 5.1
Pique - 5.0
Thiago, Chiellini - 4.8
Luiz - 4.4
Godin - 3.3
Terry - 1.6

Accurate Through balls
Pique - 0.2
Godin, Chiellini, Ramos, Bonucci - 0.1
Alderweild, Thiago, Terry, Boateng - --
Luiz - 0

Crosses
Boateng - 0.3
Alderweild - 0.2
Bonucci, Terry, Thiago - 0.1
Godin, Pique, Ramos, Hummels - --
Chiellini, Luiz - 0

Key passes
Boateng - 0.7
Hummels - 0.4
Alderweild, Bonucci, Terry, Chiellini - 0.3
Godin, Pique, Ramos - 0.2
Thiago, Luiz - 0.1

Dribbles
Hummels - 0.8
Godin, Boateng - 0.4
Bonucci - 0.3
Ramos, Pique, Alderweild, Thiago- 0.2
Terry - 0

Terry has more key passes than Luiz. Terry is a better defender but any sane football fan can see that Luiz offers more in terms of attacking play.
 
My Bonucci has good stats.
 
goin4glory said:
Terry get's to hide behind 2 lines of pressure and never has to defend on the front foot, with zero pace to deal with dangerous situations. 2 months of playing in AVB's high line completely exposed what a one dimensional CB he is. When Terry was called on to put out fires, defend proactively and adapt himself to the positioning of less tactically disciplined midfielders (i.e when he had Gerrard/Lampard ahead of him and not Makalele or Matic) Germany won 4-1.
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Fair point. The thing however is that the Chelsea system works in a certain way and JT fits perfectly into the game Jose plays. There is not a single defender in the league who has done as well, the basic assumption is that all the teams are playing to the best of their players abilities. Kompany and Mangala have been poor beyond belief. The dippers are a laugh and arsenal cant keep a player fit for a season. United defense is a joke and within Chelsea Cahill has been shocking as well.

So there it is hard to look beyond Terry for the best defender. Not saying it would be the case even if Kompany was on top form or Koscielny plays an injury free season. As things have turned out this season He is the best CB in the league and would likely walk into any of the other 19 teams.
 
Terry is not a ball playing CB, but definitely has decent technique with the ball.
 
AshfordLad said:
Fair point. The thing however is that the Chelsea system works in a certain way and JT fits perfectly into the game Jose plays. There is not a single defender in the league who has done as well, the basic assumption is that all the teams are playing to the best of their players abilities. Kompany and Mangala have been poor beyond belief. The dippers are a laugh and arsenal cant keep a player fit for a season. United defense is a joke and within Chelsea Cahill has been shocking as well.

So there it is hard to look beyond Terry for the best defender. Not saying it would be the case even if Kompany was on top form or Koscielny plays an injury free season. As things have turned out this season He is the best CB in the league and would likely walk into any of the other 19 teams.
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Chelsea are forced to play this system with JT and Cahill in the side, is suits Mourinho on some occasions when he wants to play with a deep line but others I.E when you're against 10 man PSG and need to play higher it works against them. I fully expect Mourinho to be looking at CB options this summer and not at all surprised to see the various links with Varane amongst others.

United have the 3rd best defence in the league only conceding 2 more than Chelsea, if you take away the 5 goals in the game vs Leicester where we started with Blackett/Mcnair/Evans we'd only be behind Southampton. Koscielny isn't injury prone, since he arrived at Arsenal his appearance record has been 43,42,34,46 and he's played 29 times this season.

I agree with Isotope Terry does actually have decent ability on the ball he's just far too slow/immobile to not get horribly exposed in more attacking systems.
 
T.Silva, Marquinhos, Hummels, Aldewereld, and stones. Too many defenders being said to be ball players when they really aren't. The likes of Terry, Boateng, and Kompany have no business being mentioned in this thread.
 
My list, Ramos, Piqué, Hummels, David Luiz, Thiago Silva
 
RooneyLegend said:
T.Silva, Marquinhos, Hummels, Aldewereld, and stones. Too many defenders being said to be ball players when they really aren't. The likes of Terry, Boateng, and Kompany have no business being mentioned in this thread.
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Hummels and Boateng just played together in the national team. Boateng 77 passes, Hummels 49.

Even partnered with Badstuber who really is a ball player (this skills of him are never questioned, some question his pace etc.) he recently was the player with the most passes.

I do not think that you can call a player that successfully does the build-up when the opposition crowds Alonso not a ball player...

With Boateng some have not seen his development in the recent two years. It came as a surprise for a lot of Bayern fans, too.
 
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carvajal said:
My list, Ramos, Piqué, Hummels, David Luiz, Thiago Silva
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I think the OP clearly meant ball playing CBs who can actually defend. Why are we even including Luiz and Pique...I will never understand..
 
Hemil said:
I think the OP clearly meant ball playing CBs who can actually defend. Why are we even including Luiz and Pique...I will never understand..
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Piqué had a bad season but I think that he is back at his best.He looks more focused.I had doubts about Luiz,clueless sometimes but not a bad defender in my opinion
 
carvajal said:
Piqué had a bad season but I think that he is back at his best.He looks more focused.I had doubts about Luiz,clueless sometimes but not a bad defender in my opinion
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Pique has been a suspect defender all these years. It's always been Puyol or Mascherano shielding him. He will never be he CB leader you need.

And don't even get me started with Luiz if you think he is a good defender.
 
Dion said:
Again, just ignorant stereotypes. His passing is absolutely fantastic and he switches play with either foot better than any centerback in world football.
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Terry's an underrated passer but he's nowhere near someone like Boateng in that regard, IMO, and he isn't particularly good at anything else for a ball-playing centre back.
 
Pique is a good shout. Ramos is excellent on the ball but a relatively poor defender and a hothead to boot.

Kompany always was overrated as a defender, but he's decent on the ball.

Luiz's ball playing usually ends with him panicking, giving the ball away to the opposition or booting it out of play - he's incredibly poor at making decisions on the ball.

Pepe isn't half bad I'd say, but Thiago Silva is the obvious candidate for best ball playing cb who can also defend.
 
goin4glory said:
United have the 3rd best defence in the league only conceding 2 more than Chelsea, if you take away the 5 goals in the game vs Leicester where we started with Blackett/Mcnair/Evans we'd only be behind Southampton. Koscielny isn't injury prone, since he arrived at Arsenal his appearance record has been 43,42,34,46 and he's played 29 times this season.
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So you will point to the 5 goals you gave away to leicester while completely ignoring the fact that chelsea has shipped nearly half their goals in just 3 games. If you take those 3 games out you have 15 conceded in 26 games. Not a team in the league that can match that. That is why JT is the best defender by far.

You can call the United defense 3rd best if you want on numbers, but everyone knows its genuinley worse than Chelsea, arsenal, spurs, city, southampton and even liverpool. I am sure dippers would be more confident going into the new season if you and they had the same defense after this summer. and I might be missing something here but where exactly do I say that koscielny is injury prone, I merely stated that he was injured this season.
 
Anyone who thinks our defense is worse than Spurs is a complete moron (footballing wise) and is just wasting their time with this sport.
 
Hemil said:
I think the OP clearly meant ball playing CBs who can actually defend. Why are we even including Luiz and Pique...I will never understand..
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marjen said:
Pique is a good shout. Ramos is excellent on the ball but a relatively poor defender and a hothead to boot.
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Both Pique and Ramos have been great defensively this season. Especially Real Madrid's defense look fragile in Ramos' absence with the game against Schalke being a prime example. Varane just hasn't been able to step up.
 
AshfordLad said:
So you will point to the 5 goals you gave away to leicester while completely ignoring the fact that chelsea has shipped nearly half their goals in just 3 games. If you take those 3 games out you have 15 conceded in 26 games. Not a team in the league that can match that. That is why JT is the best defender by far.

You can call the United defense 3rd best if you want on numbers, but everyone knows its genuinley worse than Chelsea, arsenal, spurs, city, southampton and even liverpool. I am sure dippers would be more confident going into the new season if you and they had the same defense after this summer. and I might be missing something here but where exactly do I say that koscielny is injury prone, I merely stated that he was injured this season.
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When we conceded 5 vs Leicester it was playing with a 2nd string defence in a makeshift formation, Chelsea conceded 3 vs Everton and 5 vs Spurs with Ivanovic/JT/Cahill/Azi and Matic all playing. We've looked miles better once we shifted to a back 4 and got over the injuries. If you think Arsenal/Spurs/City/Liverpool have a better defence than us I'll have what you're smoking. I mean we've conceded 27 goals Spurs 45, get a grip.

As for Koscielny you posted "So there it is hard to look beyond Terry for the best defender. Not saying it would be the case even if Kompany was on top form or Koscielny plays an injury free season" Koscileny has had multiple injury free seasons since he's been at Arsenal.
 
Hemil said:
I think the OP clearly meant ball playing CBs who can actually defend. Why are we even including Luiz and Pique...I will never understand..
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Piqué has been the best defender around over the past few months, he's back to his best now after a pretty long slump.
 
Hemil said:
Pique has been a suspect defender all these years. It's always been Puyol or Mascherano shielding him. He will never be he CB leader you need.

And don't even get me started with Luiz if you think he is a good defender.
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No need for the hyperbole. Luiz and Pique, say what you like, clearly they are decent defenders. You can argue they aren't the best but they simply would not have played in defence for teams like United, Chelsea, PSG and Barcelona if they were bad defenders.
 
Blackwidow said:
Hummels and Boateng just played together in the national team. Boateng 77 passes, Hummels 49.

Even partnered with Badstuber who really is a ball player (this skills of him are never questioned, some question his pace etc.) he recently was the player with the most passes.

I do not think that you can call a player that successfully does the build-up when the opposition crowds Alonso not a ball player...

With Boateng some have not seen his development in the recent two years. It came as a surprise for a lot of Bayern fans, too.
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Ball playing defenders is about defenders who are good on the ball and not how many passes they play. Boateng isn't nearly as good on the ball as Hummels is, its not even close. Hummels wouldn't look out of place in midfield while Boateng isn't even something worth considering. Now Badstuber is definitely a ball player but something is really wrong with the standards if we start saying Boateng also is one.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Ball playing defenders is about defenders who are good on the ball and not how many passes they play. Boateng isn't nearly as good on the ball as Hummels is, its not even close. Hummels wouldn't look out of place in midfield while Boateng isn't even something worth considering. Now Badstuber is definitely a ball player but something is really wrong with the standards if we start saying Boateng also is one.
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I do not know how many matches you have seen recently with Boateng. He really has made an absolutely great development in that aspect. I remember the match against Dortmund when Dortmund thought they could kill the Bayern match by taking care of Alonso because that worked with Real - just that then Boateng overtook and did a great job...

And no - I normally do not think that it is just the numbers of passes. But - the only thing Hummels is really better is with his head.

I usually do not like the youtube-vids to prove something, but...



That are all scenes of the last year until now.
 
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Bob Loblaw said:
Piqué has been the best defender around over the past few months, he's back to his best now after a pretty long slump.
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BobbyManc said:
No need for the hyperbole. Luiz and Pique, say what you like, clearly they are decent defenders. You can argue they aren't the best but they simply would not have played in defence for teams like United, Chelsea, PSG and Barcelona if they were bad defenders.
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Cheers guys. But, i still don't see Pique as a very good defender after a decent 4-5 months. Pique was never picked by United to play in the first team. He was just another youngster like Evans.

And the other teams definitely didn't buy Luiz for his defending capabalities....
 
RooneyLegend said:
Ball playing defenders is about defenders who are good on the ball and not how many passes they play. Boateng isn't nearly as good on the ball as Hummels is, its not even close. Hummels wouldn't look out of place in midfield while Boateng isn't even something worth considering. Now Badstuber is definitely a ball player but something is really wrong with the standards if we start saying Boateng also is one.
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It took Hummels years to adjust his style of play so that he fits into the more possession based build-up of the nationalteam. It's no coincidence and you can still see his problems with consistent short passing and creative passing with low balls through the middle. Boateng is simply better at those things. Hummels is stronger when running with the ball and hits better long balls, but Boateng improved there as well.

Both are clearly strong ball playing centerbacks, saying it's not even close is just silly. Oh and Boateng didn't look out of place at all when Guardiola moved him into a DM position this season. It doesn't happen often of course, but it became instantly obvious, that Boateng's reading of the game, passing range and positioning works well in that midfield role. So much for 'Boateng isn't even worth considering in midfield', utter nonsense.
 
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