It's scientifically proven that Canadians are sensible and responsible enough to own and use firearms whereas most Americans shouldn't be let loose with anything more dangerous than a plastic spork.
American Cops Doing What They Do Best
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It's scientifically proven that Canadians are sensible and responsible enough to own and use firearms whereas most Americans shouldn't be let loose with anything more dangerous than a plastic spork.
Police work is uniquely dangerous and thus calls for unique oversight. Why can't you grasp that? The fact that it is statistically less dangerous than other jobs is meaningless. Guns, tazers, batons etc. are basically safety equipment similar to hard hats and steel-toed boots that loggers wear. They aren't offensive weapons per se, they are meant for protection first. Carrying those items and having to use them means that they operate under different rules when they use them which is why you get things like you posted above. Thconsequences that an officer faces based on split-second decisions made in high-adrenaline, dangerous situations means that you can't just apply bog-standard labour laws when something goes awry.
I don't agree that they are more or less trigger-happy as a whole. I just see lots of recent highlighted incidents but when you consider how many police/public interactions occur in the nation over just one day then I don't think you can claim that all cops are trigger-happy.
The incident was awful and there was no justification for the murder. However the criminal was promptly arrested, and has been charged with murder. Not one person has come out defending the person's actions.
The problem is when bad cops on the other side overstep their boundaries, and the court system, and "good cops" who turn a blind eye to the bad apples, prevent justice from being served.
And the "stop and frisk" program just got ended in the city. It was found to be targeted disproportionately at minority neighborhoods. So the disapproval of the police as a whole from some quarters is unsurprising.
Thank you for now arguing against things I've actually said. I agree that we shouldn't make them operate under the exact same rules as civilians. We give them extra benefit of the doubt and we should do that. But it's a matter of degree and I think we've gone too far in that direction and need to scale it back some. The stories of the officers doing horrible shit and the municipality paying out millions to cover it and the officer being reinstated after it's over to his previous rank and given back pay. That shit has to stop.
Plus there are other things that can be done to improve the situation. Civilian review boards, more encouragement for whistleblowers, less military equipment, require officers to live in the area they serve. Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.
When the mayor of New York has to have a special talk to his son about how to not get killed by police (something the mayor of Greenwich Connecticut doesn't have to do) then there is a problem.
Then you're just being intellectually dishonest.
I'm not claiming all cops are trigger-happy. I have had my fair share of bump ins with cops and the officers I interacted with were professional, jovial and friendly. However the incidents that are occurring recently are not isolated, they are an indication of the state of police forces nationwide, and the status quo is unacceptable. Unless you live in the suburbs like me, then it's "feck you Jack I'm alright"
Explain how I'm being intellectually dishonest?
I went to the guardian to check the Bayern Barca score, and I see this on the front page:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/06/chicago-police-torture-victims-deal
Citizens were tortured in police custody during the 70s and 80s. So much for all the good cops doing their job.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/06/chicago-police-torture-victims-deal
Citizens were tortured in police custody during the 70s and 80s. So much for all the good cops doing their job.
This is the one I always bring up. If cops were doing this in the 70s and 80s in Chicago, imagine what they were doing in rural Mississippi during Jim Crow.
The disproportionate deaths of minorities at the hands of cops, the propensity to run get the SWAT teams for petty nonviolent crimes, the refusal to de-escalate situations and return when appropriate... You can't honestly say that cops in the US aren't as careful with the application of lethal force as they should be. How many people have been killed because the cop thought they had a gun?
I didn't say anything like that. My opinion is that there is less of this today than there was in the past.
I don't think many loggers at all are afraid of their job or have many fears at all regarding it. Yes you have a statistically higher chance of dying while doing it than almost any other occupation but it isn't frightening. Yes, you might roll a skidder and get crushed. You might fell a tree and it knocks a snag loose and it brains you from 100 feet up. You might fell a tree and it gets hung up and falls on you. You might fell a tree and it might buck up off the ground kick back and crush you. You might walk out your front door and get struck by lightning or crash while driving to the grocery store. The majority of people who log for a living are aware of the possibilities but they look at it like any other way you can potentially die.
The tree isn't trying to kill you. It might kill you but shit happens. This is a fundamental difference to being a police officer where people ARE trying to kill you and WILL kill you if they have a chance. You might never encounter one in your entire career but that doesn't mean they don't exist and that you cannot be ready at any time for something to go down.
How different is it to logging in that regard? Being ready for anything at any time? I suppose it is similar but the difference is intent.
Like I said, I spent several years working as a logger. I was more nervous about wildlife(mind running wild, not legitimately concerned), both real and of the cryptozoological sort than I was of a tree smashing me and trees almost did smash me several times. I obviously can't speak for everyone who has been a logger. I was never afraid that a tree might kill me in a general way. Yes there were times when it was windy and falling was a bad idea. Or a tree was clearly hung up with another. Those were squeeky bum moments but the fear in those situations was proportionate to the threat. I could see the threat, I could anticipate it. I knew at that moment I was risking my life.
Police don't have this luxury. They cannot identify the safe moments from the danger moments. When they are out and about they always have to be on high-alert. That is what is psychologically draining and taxing.
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I doubt many loggers really walk around with pistols. It's a terrible idea. Packing the gear you already need to pack + moving through brush. Just more crap to get hung up on. Plus most loggers are rather accustomed to the outdoors. The likelihood that a bear or cougar is going to make a play on a logger is ludicrously small.
Most large predators are going to be getting the hell out of dodger first of all. Cats, chainsaws, skidders, loaders, trucks, feller-bunchers. That is a lot of noise. Secondly, bears and cougars almost never actually attack people. If you've spent any time in the woods in your life (speaking in general here) 100% you have been seen by a bear or a big cat, not seen it and it didn't eat ya ;p Living in the states this is the funniest thing to me. Many people think that wild animal attacks are common place and that black bears and grizzlies and cougars are running around in Canada just straight jacking people. It's not just urbanites, those are people who live in small rural communities that regularly hunt and spend time outdoors.
Yeah, logging operations are generally quite noisy and most animals would steer well clear. I was just pointing out that they can apply for such a permit. It's usually the tree planters who have run-ins with bears and usually because they're city kids who leave their food at ground level.
We're not allowed to tote pistols around in Canada so I felt that pointing out this particular exception was relevant to the context of the discussion.
We're not allowed to tote pistols around in Canada so I felt that pointing out this particular exception was relevant to the context of the discussion.
I'm not sure why you're referencing me with this?
It's always a shame to see the silence in here when someone guns down police officers. That's just par the course right? They know the risks? Two officers gunned down on a traffic stop. Suspects stole a police vehicle after. Left a wife without a husband, and kids without a father.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers-shot-dead/index.html
And I´m always amazed at the absolute Police silence and circle the wagons attitude about their shootings and racism and corruption and abuse, even in extreme cases like the torture in Chicago and the thousands of pieces of video evidence coming out daily of abuse. And how the Republican party and right wing press always poo poo them and treat them with kid gloves, and practically give them total support. It´s absolutely sickening.
I´m still waiting for the Tea Party and right wing America to label then as "big government" evil.
No one gives a feck about the police. What they do is taken for granted by vast numbers of the general public.
Cops getting shot on the job isn't really a surprise. Dirty cops murdering people for no good reason is a massive surprise and huge news when it happens.
I'm sure that nobody posting in this thread is glad that it happens.
Have you never been thanked for doing your job? I think a lot of people tell cops they are grateful when they help them.
Very rarely nowadays.
People would sooner video me in the hope I make a mistake so they can go to the press and try and get me in the shit.
It's a sorry state of affairs when you are locking someone up in a busy town centre and all the young people do the above leaving a couple of old boys to step in and lend a hand.
100% of my interactions with police have been positive. 100%. But for a vast group of Americans, this isn't the case. And I think those concerns are worth discussing.
If a police did something that helped me out I'd be very grateful.
People record everything these days so I'm not sure it's just rozzers getting recorded. Do you get recorded a lot when you're doing what you do? I thought it was mostly US cops because of the chance of it turning deadly? With you all they'd get is you lamping someone with your stick, right?
Agreed. 100% of my interactions with mechanics have been positive but for large numbers of people this isn't the case. Such is life. There's arse holes in every line of employment.
What? Mechanics are massive cnuts. Always trying to rip you off.
Asshole mechanics don't kill people and get away with it.
Yeah people like to video and talk about how much they think they know about the law. They'd sooner do that than lend a hand when it's all kicking off. Older folk though are different and still have that respect and desire to do the right thing. Sad how things have become really.
They might tamper with your brakes.
Or they might just overcharge you and talk down to you. Police is a higher visibility and higher impact job than mechanic. When they do things right, they are called heroes. When they do things wrong, there is much more scrutiny. You don't see mechanics being called heroes for fixing a radiator and you don't see rallies and protests for mechanics who are condescending.
I'm not sure that I'd want to join in if something is kicking off. I don't think that's unreasonable. You've got the training, the team and get paid to tackle crime so get on with it. I thought the public were supposed to stay out of the way and let you lot get on with it.
My opinions are purely UK based of course.
I've already commented on my thoughts on US cops and these shootings. It's nothing to do with them being cops it's the overall gun culture and mentality itself that is the problem.
I've already commented on my thoughts on US cops and these shootings. It's nothing to do with them being cops it's the overall gun culture and mentality itself that is the problem.
Refusing to assist a constable who requests your help during a breach of the peace is an offence you know?
The way things are going the public will be fending for themselves as you won't be getting a bobby any time soon under all these cuts, 999 call or otherwise.
I'm no murderous mechanic but the police were completely professional the two times I got nicked. I don't think they enjoyed the strip search any more than I did tbf.
My interactions with the police these days are few and largely pleasant - that wasn't always the case.
You'd love a temporary sheriff's badge. Free rein to legally kick ass.
I had you down as a murderous mechanic too! #shattereddreams
Pete will tell you I'm a lily-livered office worker with soft hands that have never done a day of man's work.