American Cops Doing What They Do Best

Grinner said:
I'm talking about fannies with poliSci degrees who think they know everything. Yes you can have an opinion but it's pretty uninformed and I'd rather we had input on policing methods from those who know the job intimately. The mayor and POTUS don't just set policy, they take input from numerous experts before they figure it out. I'm sure if somebody came up and said 'oh policing isn't very dangerous really, loggers are in a much tougher job' they'd be laughed out of the room.
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Like... cops?

They got us in this shitty situation in the first place. Constructive criticism and recommendations to fix things have come from urban policy experts, civil rights organizations, community boards, law enforcement officers and the press; it's not just some twitter activists.
 
Like i said, fannies who glibly claim that policing isn't a dangerous, difficult job are not worth listening to.
 
The day I stop having a certain amount of "fear" when going to work, is the day I quit and walk away. That's what keeps you on your toes and alert to any potential danger.

It's a different threat and danger than logging, or fishing. No one wants to murder them or walk around chanting about giving them wings. No one will walk into a coffee shop and execute them just for doing what they do.

This job, probably more than any, gets every officer painted with broad, general strokes. People in here making excuses for some protesters because the media is OK lyrics showing the bad apples, while not focusing on the ones who are protesting peacefully.

Imagine that....The ones doing what they're supposed to do, being ignored because of the ass holes who arent. :rolleyes:

Also, that prosecutor in the Gray case has made a real balls of it so far.
 
Eboue said:
I think you should have a certain amount of fear. I think loggers should too. I have a problem with it when that fear is disproportionate to the actual risks because it leads to stuff like this


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/04/24/the-police-officers-bill-of-rights/
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I agree. Loggers have different fears than officers, and vice versa. The difference being people actively going out of their way to murder officers. Doesn't mean officers should cower in fear every shift, nor gun everyone down, but if it means I treat every interaction as a potential threat until I'm certain of it otherwise...so be it.
 
Skizzo said:
I agree. Loggers have different fears than officers, and vice versa. The difference being people actively going out of their way to murder officers. Doesn't mean officers should cower in fear every shift, nor gun everyone down, but if it means I treat every interaction as a potential threat until I'm certain of it otherwise...so be it.
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It's a simple point really. I don't know why Eboue doesn't understand it.
 
Skizzo said:
Imagine that....The ones doing what they're supposed to do, being ignored because of the ass holes who arent. :rolleyes:
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It's the habit of sticking together no matter what the circumstances of suspected wrongdoing by officers that leads people to tar them all with the same brush.

Skizzo said:
I agree. Loggers have different fears than officers, and vice versa. The difference being people actively going out of their way to murder officers. Doesn't mean officers should cower in fear every shift, nor gun everyone down, but if it means I treat every interaction as a potential threat until I'm certain of it otherwise...so be it.
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We expect that, it the habit of prematurely gunning down potential threats (not to mention non-threats) that folks find distasteful.
 
All I know is that there are more good cops risking their lives everyday to keep is safe than bad cops. The actions of a few won't change my mind on who the real criminals are. A 25 year old out doing his job protecting people was shot in the face by a thug. The good ones risk everything and I'll be damned if I let a few bullies who shouldn't be allowed to put a uniform on change my opinion on the ones who actually make a difference.
 
Eboue said:
I do understand it, I just don't agree with it. You might have more luck convincing me if you were less condescending though.
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diddums.

Just walk up the next few cops that you see and ask them what it's like being on patrol.
 
So when are all these good cops going to start taking action against all these bad apples? I find it amazing there has been basically zero "good cop" activism against the well documented corruption, torture, abuse and racism against Police Departments such as Chicago and L.A. How good a cop really are you if you remain silent in front of terrible abuse?

I find their silence speaks volumes. They almost seem more afraid of their colleagues than of the criminals. Should´t we consider their silence as abetment, or even compliance or approval? There seems to be this code of silence in police forces that are unacceptable in normal society.

Have their been any modern day Serpicos, or is that all the police forces have cleaned themselves up? LOL.
 
Eboue said:
deep sea fishing or whatever is objectively more dangerous than policing.
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I know it's dangerous, I did it for nearly 10 years. However, I wanted to be a Policeman when I grew up, I personally wouldn't ever want to be one in the USA.

As a fisherman you know the dangers are there constantly, but you only ever really worry about them when the weather is seriously bad, yet I've seen more accidents happen when it was almost flat calm. Losing a 16 year old deck hand over the side of our boats sister ship was probably the worst, especially as his dad was the second skipper on our boat and we had to go and search (unsuccessfully) for his son. Complacency can be a huge problem for many fishermen, I presume the same can be said for every dangerous profession. Many of these incidents involving the Police have happened due to complacency and could so easily have been avoided. I don't see how comparing the dangers of the two professions makes sense though as they are both completely different and require completely different skillsets/personalities and both have completely different dangers.
 
langster said:
I know it's dangerous, I did it for nearly 10 years. However, I wanted to be a Policeman when I grew up, I personally wouldn't ever want to be one in the USA.

As a fisherman you know the dangers are there constantly, but you only ever really worry about them when the weather is seriously bad, yet I've seen more accidents happen when it was almost flat calm. Losing a 16 year old deck hand over the side of our boats sister ship was probably the worst, especially as his dad was the second skipper on our boat and we had to go and search (unsuccessfully) for his son. Complacency can be a huge problem for many fishermen, I presume the same can be said for every dangerous profession. Many of these incidents involving the Police have happened due to complacency and could so easily have been avoided. I don't see how comparing the dangers of the two professions makes sense though as they are both completely different and require completely different skillsets/personalities and both have completely different dangers.
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That's not the sense in which I am comparing them. Police are given a huge amount of extra privileges (see the officer bill of rights I posted) and they are almost never prosecuted in relation to the crimes they commit (see nobbys recent post) and they are given these rights BECAUSE of the idea that their job is uniquely dangerous. So if we want to added those issues (I assume we all do) then it's necessary to point out that a major justification for them isn't valid
 
Eboue said:
That's not the sense in which I am comparing them. Police are given a huge amount of extra privileges (see the officer bill of rights I posted) and they are almost never prosecuted in relation to the crimes they commit (see nobbys recent post) and they are given these rights BECAUSE of the idea that their job is uniquely dangerous. So if we want to added those issues (I assume we all do) then it's necessary to point out that a major justification for them isn't valid
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Fairy muff.
 
Eboue said:
That's not the sense in which I am comparing them. Police are given a huge amount of extra privileges (see the officer bill of rights I posted) and they are almost never prosecuted in relation to the crimes they commit (see nobbys recent post) and they are given these rights BECAUSE of the idea that their job is uniquely dangerous. So if we want to added those issues (I assume we all do) then it's necessary to point out that a major justification for them isn't valid
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Don´t police generally receive better retirement benefits than the rest of us, such as a 50% pension after 20 years. Not that that is a huge amount, but that´s pretty fecking juicy if you consider you retire at 40 with a 50% pension, and are free to get into other work at a relatively young age. Firemen and military officers I think get even better treatment.
 
Nobby style said:
Don´t police generally receive better retirement benefits than the rest of us, such as a 50% pension after 20 years. Not that that is a huge amount, but that´s pretty fecking juicy if you consider you retire at 40 with a 50% pension, and are free to get into other work at a relatively young age. Firemen and military officers I think get even better treatment.
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That's a common deal for most public employees. Police unions are very good at getting extra benefits though so I'd blame the people who make the pay deals rather than those who are trying to get the best for their members.
 
Eboue said:
That's not the sense in which I am comparing them. Police are given a huge amount of extra privileges (see the officer bill of rights I posted) and they are almost never prosecuted in relation to the crimes they commit (see nobbys recent post) and they are given these rights BECAUSE of the idea that their job is uniquely dangerous. So if we want to added those issues (I assume we all do) then it's necessary to point out that a major justification for them isn't valid
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Even though it's been pointed out to you that police work is uniquely dangerous?
 
Grinner said:
It's a simple point really. I don't know why Eboue doesn't understand it.
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It's a stupid point. The pure numbers indicate that police work is not that dangerous compared to other professions. It's dangerous, but not to the point that an officer's paranoia is justified. Especially when that paranoia results in hasty decisions that may cause harm to the public.
 
I'm surprised you're being this thick.

Which other occupations do you think run the risk of you being shot or assualted while at work at a similar or greater level than police work?
 
adexkola said:
It's a stupid point. The pure numbers indicate that police work is not that dangerous compared to other professions. It's dangerous, but not to the point that an officer's paranoia is justified. Especially when that paranoia results in hasty decisions that may cause harm to the public.
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Who said anything about paranoia? It just means that a cop is more likely to draw a weapon which can invariably lead to a bad situation.

Loggers don't need to be armed to cut down a tree for fear that it might fight back.
 
Grinner said:
I'm surprised you're being this thick.

Which other occupations do you think run the risk of you being shot or assualted while at work at a similar or greater level than police work?
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That's a, shall I say, thick way of framing it. What other occupations do you run the risk of a tree falling on you (or whatever)?

Obviously the way to compare danger is to compare fatality and injury rates, not the way in which they are received.
 
Eboue said:
That's a, shall I say, thick way of framing it. What other occupations do you run the risk of a tree falling on you (or whatever)?

Obviously the way to compare danger is to compare fatality and injury rates, not the way in which they are received.
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Not really, police are required to deal with people who don't want to be dealt with, often armed, usually belligerent and often not in their right mind. No other job compares.
 
Would their death rate be higher or lower if they stopped shooting and killing people needlessly?
 
Shamwow said:
Would their death rate be higher or lower if they stopped shooting and killing people needlessly?
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Death rates from shooting would probably drop if there was stricted gun control but we know that isn't going to happen. But what you have asked involves different statistics so I'm not sure what you are looking for.
 
Eboue said:
:lol: do you think I am advocating we stop training and arming police?
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Well if you think that the job isn't really that dangerous then surely it follows that they don't need all of that weaponry. Presumably you don't think loggers and fishermen should be armed because their jobs are so dangerous?
 
Grinner said:
Well if you think that the job isn't really that dangerous then surely it follows that they don't need all of that weaponry. Presumably you don't think loggers and fishermen should be armed because their jobs are so dangerous?
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No, it doesn't follow that at all. It's clear that you are arguing disingenuously now.
 
Grinner said:
Death rates from shooting would probably drop if there was stricted gun control but we know that isn't going to happen. But what you have asked involves different statistics so I'm not sure what you are looking for.
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Just wondering out loud and seeing what people's opinions are.
 
Grinner said:
Well if you think that the job isn't really that dangerous then surely it follows that they don't need all of that weaponry. Presumably you don't think loggers and fishermen should be armed because their jobs are so dangerous?
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In Canada people that work in the bush can carry pistols, usually .44 magnum revolvers, for bear defence. Such authorization is difficult to obtain in most circumstances but generally granted to tree planters, geologists and quite possibly loggers.
 
Grinner said:
Well if you think that the job isn't really that dangerous then surely it follows that they don't need all of that weaponry. Presumably you don't think loggers and fishermen should be armed because their jobs are so dangerous?
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I think the normal beat cop is adequately armed. They just need to be more careful and less trigger happy when dealing with urban folks. Deescalate situations. Only apply deadly force when absolutely needed, as a last resort. Do you not agree with any of that?
 
Red_devil_ said:
All I know is that there are more good cops risking their lives everyday to keep is safe than bad cops. The actions of a few won't change my mind on who the real criminals are. A 25 year old out doing his job protecting people was shot in the face by a thug. The good ones risk everything and I'll be damned if I let a few bullies who shouldn't be allowed to put a uniform on change my opinion on the ones who actually make a difference.
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This post is far too well reasoned and balanced for this thread
 
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