American Cops Doing What They Do Best

And handing money from today's people who had nothing to do with it is supposed to undo history ? Brilliant logic as usual.

Please get over this Republican talking point. Money is being handed over to everyone, especially in corporate welfare, especially the Pentagon, especially to the military industrial complex, and yes, to many poorer whites. Why does it bother you so much when they are minorities, or when it´s that Al Sharpton playing the race card?

Brilliant logic as usual.
 
Reparations would make more sense if the money was going to people who actually lived through slavery.

Also if it wouldn't probably bankrupt the country.

Not sure it's overtly relevant to this thread, though.
 
It appears to be a chicken or egg question, but that assumption is conclusively false. African Americans have been disenfranchised from American society through slavery, Jim Crow in the south, discrimination in the north, and punitive drug laws. That is the primary cause for the majority of blacks being in a poor state today, not their personal failings. They've been left behind. You can't expect them to make up the distance on sheer effort and will. A few try and succeed. Many try and fail. Some say feck it and go the illegal route. All that doesn't wipe away the history of how that gap was created in the first place.



You're asking the wrong question. If there are minimal job opportunities, it is the job of the government to facilitate employment. We have not seen an urban renewal project akin to that of FDR's New Deal or the War on Poverty that Johnson launched. FDR didn't go on a rant about how the residents of Appalachia needed to pull their pants up and stop inbreeding, feuding, bootlegging moonshine, and start going to school. He and his administration introduced programs that aimed to improve the life of white residents in the region and nationwide. The federal government stepped in and saved several auto industries from collapsing.

This ignores rampant job discrimination by private companies today. A white man with a criminal record is more likely to get hired than a black man without a criminal record. Odds stacked.



This is a fallacy. Sentencing laws unfairly target African Americans and Hispanics. The disparity between sentences for trafficking crack cocaine vs powder cocaine (which was reduced, but not eliminated) devastated an entire generation. Laws like the 3 strikes rule in California were sweeping and lacked restraint, sending people to prison for life for non-violent crimes. I find it ironic that people are wasting away in prison now for trafficking marijuana, while businesses in Colorado are making a killing selling the product legally.

Minorities are more likely to be put on death row than whites convicted of the same crimes. Minorities are profiled while driving despite amount of driving violations being similar to those of whites.

This all feeds into a lot of urban males ending up with a criminal record. Locking them out of decent employment opportunities. The cycle repeats.



I blame disparity in funding for urban schools compared to their counterparts in the suburbs. There's an ugly racial tint to the history of how the suburbs were created, how mortgages were denied to black people post WW2, how neighborhoods were emptied of white families overnight on the threat a nigger family was moving in. Entire swaths of urban zip codes were redlined, denying black people from obtaining FHA mortgages, and feeding them into exploitative mortgage contracts that screwed them over royally. Property taxes fund education at the elementary and secondary levels in this country, so inner cities with depressed neighborhoods won't have as much funding as the suburbs. This results in schools with minimal supplies, lackluster teachers, and disappointed students.

I agree with you in that I also blame lack of quality parenting. Some blame can be aimed at individuals (father your sons) definitely. There are several specialized high schools of excellence in New York, public but some of the best in the country. Admission is based upon merit alone, after taking a standardized test. The overwhelming majority of kids at these schools are Asian. That says a lot about the black community's relative failure to do right by their kids, but it's more complicated than "raise your kids".



I addressed this already. Government.



Spot on. But people of all genders and races have issues and make mistakes. People get knocked up. People flunk out of school. But it seems as if though black people are held to a higher level of personal responsibility. That should not be the case.



The residents are a product of the environment, which is a legacy of the racism African Americans, Native Americans and Hispanic Americans have faced in this country. There is a feedback loop but there is no question how things started. Look at Black Wall Street in Tulsa. Prosperous thriving community of black owned businesses and enterprises. Burned down by whites in the 1920s. Reservations which isolate Native Americans from the rest of the country and condemn countless people to a life of alcoholism, drug usage and violence. Blanket laws which enable judges to lock away Latino youths for appearing to affiliate with gangs. I'm scratching the surface with this patchy post, but you can't just shrug all that away and say, "work through it, I did".

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Both excellent posts.

What's the point of this ? All the people involved with slavery on both sides are long dead.

Many people (of all races) aren't aware of these things, and how even after slavery black people weren't given a fair chance at building their economic freedom, and any chance they did manage to build something for themselves, it would be destroyed (e.g Black Wall Street).

I don't think it's about giving money back to black people, that's never going to be accomplished. But more so highlights why so many black people find themselves in an economic position that's difficult to get out of, and also forms the basis of a lot of frustration and anger felt by black people stuck in a system that's been designed to keep them at a disadvantage - particularly when you see people riot and protest.
 
Reparations would make more sense if the money was going to people who actually lived through slavery.

Also if it wouldn't probably bankrupt the country.

Not sure it's overtly relevant to this thread, though.

The point is not reparations per se, rather, why don´t we massively invest in depressed minority communities with a similar effort and finance as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? We spent (and are spending) trillions there.

But boy, doing that smells like reparations. Can´t do that.
 
Please get over this Republican talking point. Money is being handed over to everyone, especially in corporate welfare, especially the Pentagon, especially to the military industrial complex, and yes, to many poorer whites. Why does it bother you so much when they are minorities, or when it´s that Al Sharpton playing the race card?

Brilliant logic as usual.

As a minority myself, I find it utterly offensive. We need less nanny state handouts and more people taking responsibility for their own actions today.
 
Stop with the nanny state please. It´s called social investment, just like FDR did with the whole USA.

You sound exactly like a tea partier.

Giving people's hard earned money to others as "social investment" is complete nonsense. It doesn't incentivize anyone to actually earn their own money.
 
But giving it to Iraq and Afghanistan and the pentagon is ok? Let´s be fair, here.

There's a massive difference between a government collecting taxes for governmental tasks and collecting them to freely redistribute to random people because of their ethnic background.
 
Jesus, what the feck is wrong with those people, don't they have to go through some psychological tests before enrolling for a cop?

Apparently not.

The older I get, and the more crap I see from the states & overseas, the more I appreciate the UK. People can hate on our public services, political parties, or whatever they want, but we're one of the least corrupt, least dangerous & least racist countries in the world to live in. I'm so, so grateful for my chance to live here.
 
How is something from 90 years ago, relevant in the present discussion ?

Because that "social investment" you think is nonsense, was a massively successful program. I don´t understand you - we should´t use tax payer money to "socially invest" like creating jobs and educational opportunities, etc? We´re not talking about "handouts." You have to get over that tea party mentality thing.
 
Because that "social investment" you think is nonsense, was a massively successful program. I don´t understand you - we should´t use tax payer money to "socially invest" like creating jobs and educational opportunities, etc? We´re not talking about "handouts." You have to get over that tea party mentality thing.

No one here is against investing in jobs and economic opportunities. I'm talking mainly about the reparations image you posted on the last page.
 
No one here is against investing in jobs and economic opportunities. I'm talking mainly about the reparations image you posted on the last page.

Don´t get stuck on the "reparations" part. I can see that´s very touchy to you (like the Rev Sharpton´s almighty race card). It´s more like minority communities deserve a New Deal type of "social investment," just like a depressed America so generously got. The article was more of a historical document of what happened back then and how it has affected things today.

I don´t believe in reparations in handouts at all. If Iraq and Afghanistan got trillions, how about that invested (not handed out) in depressed American communities. Is that nonsense? Really?
 
How about we leave this thread to what it's actually about, and if you want to continue this debate you start a new thread instead of derailing this one.
 
Apparently not.

The older I get, and the more crap I see from the states & overseas, the more I appreciate the UK. People can hate on our public services, political parties, or whatever they want, but we're one of the least corrupt, least dangerous & least racist countries in the world to live in. I'm so, so grateful for my chance to live here.

Watching this video again, it's incredible how officer dickwad cuffs a guy with internal bleeding and then searches through his fecking pockets instead of giving him a first aid, trying to stop the bleeding and all that shit. It's just fecking horrible.
 
I don't understand why people accept the gun lobby arguments for armed folks in schools etc. when you see that a good portion of American cops, who undergo way more firearms training than a school security guard would, are pretty terrible at using their weapons in stressful situations.
 
I don't understand why people accept the gun lobby arguments for armed folks in schools etc. when you see that a good portion of American cops, who undergo way more firearms training than a school security guard would, are pretty terrible at using their weapons in stressful situations.

Duty officers actually don't undergo very rigorous firearms training at all. In general they're required to shoot fifty to a hundred rounds at the police range each year to qualify. That's very little. You need to shoot thousands of rounds to develop a reliable technique. And that's just the shooting portion. It's pretty clear that they don't get a lot of training in the way of conflict resolution or stress training.

That said, I agree with the gist of your point. There are an awful lot of schools out there. How would they find enough competent shooters? Schools need to think about implementing more stringent security measures that don't involve armed guards, specifically controlled access to their buildings.
 
I know that police don't do much training, that's kind of my point. They still do way more than any proposed school guard would do and they also have lots of experience of the street yet still go mental when the adrenaline is pumping.
 
I know that police don't do much training, that's kind of my point. They still do way more than any proposed school guard would do and they also have lots of experience of the street yet still go mental when the adrenaline is pumping.

I think that's debateable. If I go to the gun range I'm going to fire a good deal more than 50-100 rounds; indeed, anywhere from two to five times more. As such, it seems more likely to me that people who would be interested in this work could (potentially) have much more firearms experience than your average beat cop who qualifies by shooting 50 rounds once a year and that's it.

In the US there are many options available for training in the private sector that go well beyond the minimal training that your average police officers gets. I think we've been led to believe that all cops are extremely well trained and that's being shown to be false more and more these days.
 
I know that police don't do much training, that's kind of my point. They still do way more than any proposed school guard would do and they also have lots of experience of the street yet still go mental when the adrenaline is pumping.

Some departments do, unfortunately, not all.
 
Wow.. I like how the female officer in the background is nonchalantly saying that she assaulted a federal officer at the end.. Guess the video should help resolve this case..
 
The agents were both acting like power crazed twats but the girl definitely played her part in escalating that situation.

I'm in no way justifying what happened, but she was basically winding the male agent up until he lost his rag and went to physically move her, at which point she (by her own admission) got into a shoving match with him and that's only going to lead to the agents taking steps to restrain her.

Nobody in that video acted reasonably.
 
The agents were both acting like power crazed twats but the girl definitely played her part in escalating that situation.

I'm in no way justifying what happened, but she was basically winding the male agent up until he lost his rag and went to physically move her, at which point she (by her own admission) got into a shoving match with him and that's only going to lead to the agents taking steps to restrain her.

Nobody in that video acted reasonably.
Ya,she did bait him to touch her and I guess things escalated rather quickly..

I am a bit fuzzy with how police handle such situations ,but is it reasonable for the officer to retain her car but let her go? Surely if he suspects her of doing or hiding something then having her walk away or a friend pick her up isn't the right option.. Didn't understand why he told her she could leave..
 
Ya,she did bait him to touch her and I guess things escalated rather quickly..

I am a bit fuzzy with how police handle such situations ,but is it reasonable for the officer to retain her car but let her go? Surely if he suspects her of doing or hiding something then having her walk away or a friend pick her up isn't the right option.. Didn't understand why he told her she could leave..
Yea he fecked up, there's no way he should be letting her walk off if they suspect something to be in the car.

Imagine they open the car and discover two dead bodies and a suitcase full of cocaine only to have let her get picked up by a mate half an hour ago.
 
Wind someone up because you think he can't do anything about it and then cry when something happens, I have a hard time feeling sorry for people like that.

Yea he fecked up, there's no way he should be letting her walk off if they suspect something to be in the car.

Imagine they open the car and discover two dead bodies and a suitcase full of cocaine only to have let her get picked up by a mate half an hour ago.

Well probability might also play a role here and if there is nothing concrete to go on they most likely (have to) expect a minor offence.
 
The point is that it's an illegal stop. This isn't nazi Germany and citizens are guaranteed by the Constitution to be able to go about their business without being subject to unreasonable searches. These are border patrol, not police.
 
So brilliantly over the top and American. Whipping out the taser. :lol:

Is it? We don't really see what's going on. If she's freaking out (which apparently she does) she might bite/scratch or whatever the officer, I think it's ok to use a certain amount of force in that case.

The point is that it's an illegal stop. This isn't nazi Germany and citizens are guaranteed by the Constitution to be able to go about their business without being subject to unreasonable searches. These are border patrol, not police.

What are they then? I assumed such matters would be handled by some police division, but admittedly I don't know a lot about the US system.
 
Wind someone up because you think he can't do anything about it and then cry when something happens, I have a hard time feeling sorry for people like that.
No one deserves to be tasered for no reason at all. It's really disturbing how happily they inflicted massive pain on an unarmed girl. Yeah, she acted bitchy and I honestly don't know if she was within her rights to drive away or not, but it doesn't matter at all. It's shocking that two border control officers couldn't restrain her without using the taser. A taser is a serious weapon and poses a serious risk to the health. It shouldn't be used lightly and a girl trying to scratch or something like that isn't a good enough reason to use it.

It's even worse if she was within her rights to leave which seemed a bit odd to me at first, but the law doesn't seem to be perfectly clear regarding the situation according to an article I read:
Just last month, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the police may not prolong traffic stops to wait for drug-sniffing dogs to inspect vehicles. It's unclear whether that applies to Border Patrol agents.
http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/SLC-Woman-Tasered-By-Border-Agents-in-Confrontation-303073091.html
 
Well they are a police agency, but these stops aren't on the border they are in the US. There's a big legal question over whether they are allowed or not. There are tons of Youtube vids about these checkpoints.
 
Sickening to watch him treat that girl like that. On a lighter note, was he attempting a commando roll at the start or did he fall over that tree root? :lol: