Absolutely mental the way people are talking about him here, as if he is some non league defender that has somehow accidentally established himself as the main centre back at a club that is top 3 in the world...
Sergio Ramos | Signs new 5 year contract
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True that.
And Valdes did that at Barca and people are worried here that he could become our number one, and they were the TOP club in the world and totally dominated Real. This just can't be used as the main point.
I've reached the stage where I'm pretty sure it'll happen. I can't stop thinking about it and I've read every single page in this thread as well as countless articles etc. Please god let it happen. I need this asap so I can go back to living my life normally.
Valdes at Barca was a good keeper at times. Did you not see his 13/14 form before he got injured, he was one of their best players. Admittedly I don't think he is the right man for us after his injury
But, some are touting him like he is the best defender in the World and ignoring the fact that for all his experience he still has a ton of mistakes in him.
comparing a GK to an outfield player is not really similar at all
Winters in Spain aren't mild everywhere. A December midweek game at Bilbao?
You see, and some of us think that Ramos will not bring would people think he would especially as he would need to level his game up and not make stupid things as he would be in trouble for these kind of things here.
I wouldn't say he's the best defender in the world, but he belongs in the top 6/7 in the world which is more than good enough for us. Put it this way, touting him as the best defender in the world is less outrageous than the way some are talking about him on here, as if he is a spanish Phil Jones. Its pretty embarrassing
Generic statements being thrown around like this just show the preconceived bias in my opinion
I think he is just pointing out that with Ramos people are saying he is a no brainer of a signing because of the trophies he won and his experience at the top level. But, with Valdes the trophies he has won and his experience at the top level seems to be completely irrelevant for many here. Really go look at the De Gea replacement thread and see some of the names people think would do a better job than Valdes.
Speaking of preconceived biases "Spanish Phil Jones" should not be an insult.
Exactly, I've always rated him as one of the best defenders in world football. Having a player like Ramos would do wonders for the confidence of his fellow defenders and may even put a bit of fear in to the opposition. It's not a secret that he is an aggressive player. If we do actually sign him then it will have been much more than I'd hoped for a couple of weeks ago.
Go on Woody, get it done lad!
Why, both are "defenders" who played in teams who controlled most of the games so there is no way to say how good they really were, while still they managed to make solid number of mistakes, Ramos managed to get 19 red cards (and he should have had more, and don't forget punishments after games which happen in the Prem, but not in La Liga), and Ramos was part of one of the worst defending performances a Spain team ever had (the WC 2014.).....
Now I am at the point where I just want to be done with it, so we can move to other targets and I will hope that he will improve his behavior at United which should be enough for him to be a good signing for us, maybe even more.
He doesn't have a ton of mistakes in him. It's being exaggerated a lot. Also, he plays in a team with such a high line that when the opponents hit back on counter attacks, it often forces defenders out of position and/or in very difficult situations. People might think that being a defender for Real Madrid is easy, but I believe it's one of the hardest clubs to look good at as a defender because there are very few defensively orientated players in the team. And like I said, with such a high line and attacking playstyle, it makes defending extremly difficult because there are often 3v3, 3v2 situations etc. They don't play with any defensive midfielders either. Who are in the team to defend? Two centre backs and partially the right back and maybe one midfielder. It makes it unbeleivably difficult. Compare it to Chelsea where every single player except Costa, Hazard and Fabregas are playing not only because they are great footballers but because their work rates are immense. Players like Ivanovic and Azpilicueta are some of the most defensive side backs in the world. Willian, Cuadrado and Oscar are probably the three most defensively orientated attacking players in the league, if not the entire Europe. It makes Cahill and Terrys job so damn easier than Ramos'.
My point: Ramos is without doubt one of the top 2-4 defenders in the world.
Exactly and if that is a valid point, then Valdes shouldn't be questioned at all.
Not if you are a Spanish non-league defender, no
Exactly. We have lost so much leadership and experience in the past few years with Giggs, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Fletcher and Scholes leaving the club yet people here and the Schweinsteiger thread are still whining that we are trying to sign experienced players. We already have one of the youngest squad in the league, adding a couple of world class veterans into it would not hurt things one bit.
Real Madrid reject Manchester United's £35m opening bid for Sergio Ramos... but revised offer is already being considered
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
but Ramos has proven his class not only in one system, but with different managers and different playing styles, from bus parking to passing, from club to country, something Valdes has never managed. The things that can be said about Valdes can't be said about Ramos at all
I've said it, Ramos has played under a host of different managers and systems as first choice, and you just say that he was part of one of the worst defending performances, how about 10 years with over 550 matches for both club and national team as a regular first-team starter?
I agree with some points, because they do play differently to some other teams, but how can we judge him as a defender if they control most of the games, and if they are in trouble they have some valid excuses?
Remember our defense first half of the season? Almost everyone was slaughtering them, ignoring the bigger issue in the fact that our midfield didn't protect them at all, or at least not till the ball was in our box. Our defense suddenly improved when we started controlling games and that while we didn't attack at all on the right side, as Mata is not a winger and Valencia didn't do anything attacking vise and was relatively often out of position and Smalling had to defend on to positions actually.
So, why is it an excuse for Ramos, but not for our defenders, who also played a high line, without proper full backs?
Also, they did play with defensive midfielders, Alonso was there till last season, the Spanish team also has a defensive midfielder.
Great post. Completely agree.
That was a very poor comparison in all honesty, and (no offense) but a lot of you arguments in the thread make little sense. People's opinions of Valdes are colored in a major way by his injury concerns (which resulted in a long term rehabilitation process), and lack of first team football through the recovery phase. That aspect is especially magnified by Falcao's flagging performances at United, who similarly also tore his ACL, so supporters are naturally wary. How is that relevant in a Ramos discussion, when he is arguably at the peak of his career performance wise, and hasn't shown major signs of physical decline ? Comparable players like Puyol and Hierro played at a good level till their mid 30s, and actually Ramos might be in better shape than either at a similar age, so he essentially has a 5-ish (maybe even slightly more) year window, which is good enough by all means.
Valdes had a career threatening injury. His style of goalkeeping is not suited for the premier league.
I don't know why you comparing the two. Ramos is suited to the premier league. Valdes isn't.
I reckon he would be a perfect signing for us - right age as well
But we are planing to play similar to Barcelona, so Valdes should be fine?
That is not a valid point, as again, Spain main force was the midfield it can't be more clear. Real Madrid's main strength was their attack. What happened when Spain's midfield got overrun?
I can understand that people like him and OK, but these points just can't be valid. Hummels was first choice CB in a WC winning team and it still can't be clearer that he is in decline in last two years.
Ramos is 1.83, isn't it? How is that suited to the Premier league?
Valdes is suited for teams who want to play possession football, so he should be suited for us (this is not actually my opinion, I am just trying to make a point).
I don't think that Ramos would be a failure, just to make that also clear, but he needs to change a lot not to be sent off every 5-6th game and to be able to be the leader at the back.
Do you actually watch the Spanish and English league? Then you'd know why exactly Valdes will struggle. Tons more crosses or long balls to be dealt with. Where as most Spanish teams try to pass it around.
Also how many goals did Spain concede at Euro 2012? Don't tell me that was all the midfield.
They were/are past it though. They arguably survived beyond their sell by date, Ramos has good seasons left in him. What's happening with Ramos appears to be that he's realised is that Casillas is dead in the water and that next season Pepe and (probably) Ronaldo will go.
It's more complex than that, because it's not just about money. It's now got tangled in the whole business of how they deal with players who aren't Perez's pets.
On the one hand, most United fans would probably salute Perez for trying to break player power. On the other hand, Perez is the one who ends up with the power which is basically like the Daily Star combining with the Transfer forum to pick a United squad for next year, and then choosing in advance which players must appear irrespective of form or tactics.
Oh look, we have the always getting sent off and he is not tall enough point.
What next?
Not every team in Spain plays Tiki Taka. Plenty of teams in Spain will put in plenty of crosses.
Read everything, or don't answer at all.
I don't have a big problem with his height at all, it's just this he is great for the Prem and he is not.....
His card record is a problem as he will not have half the protection here he had at Real.
Which defenders don't make any mistakes? He's world class and what we need!
Yep, spot on. There have never been good Premier League defenders from that height range.
Ramos is a homunculus who just can't cut it against the titans of Premier League football.
What? He'd have more protection here than he ever had at Madrid.
Don't let me catch you gushing over Otamendi.
Because Real Madrid doesn't give a shit about balance, while Van Gaal is obsessed with it. The defenders get a lot of help from the midfield, far more than Ramos in Real Madrid, while fullbacks like Blind, Shaw and Valencia are far more defensive than Carvajal and especially Marcelo.
Our plan is to control the game, so no crosses should be allowed if we have the ball most of the time. Valdes should be perfect for that style of play, a style people use as an advantage to get Ramos (again, I am not sure about Valdes at all as I am not sure how much control will we have and he looked really bad at dealing with crosses against Hull, but it was one game).
How many chances did Croatia had at Euro 2012? Take just that game, yes they didn't concede a lot, but they didn't defended well at all in that game.
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