Borussia Dortmund 15/16

Balu

Der Fußballgott
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So the 'hipster' club is back, new manager in Thomas Tuchel. They kept all their top players like Reus, Gündogan, Hummels. Some exciting goals today against what is usually an incredibly well drilled and disciplined team, but they cut Gladbach open as if they were a pub team. They also dominated possession and looked better at keeping the ball and seeing a game out than they ever did under Klopp.

The goals today:





Can they reach the heights Klopp's side did?

Oh and I hope I jinxed their season by creating this thread, sorry @Sphaero ;).
 
Is @ItsEssexRob still around? He could try to win some money back after losing so much by betting on Dortmund all the time last season.
 
first season since forever in which dortmund did not have to replace a key-player. i mean on the pitch. also i'm very content in tuchel and have been favouring him as klopp's only logical replacement, but then that was not really rocket science.

now it'll be all about tuchel's man-handling when it comes to veteran players and a bunch of promising youngsters heavily competing for a seat on the bench - speaking of großkreutz, kuba, bender, hofmann, ginter, durm and/or dudziak - the latter four may even see themselves moved to the 2nd team from time to time, so as to at least give them more than a handful of minutes in competitive matches - or may even see themselves rotting on the stands, repeatedly... i do see this issue as tuchel's primary obstacle in his first year, in the long run that is.
 
Hope they win the league, got a soft spot for them. Great to see them holding onto all their best players and tuchel is very highly regarded, should be an exciting season for them.
 
BigDunc9 said:
Have they signed any first team players?
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They bought Castro from Leverkusen, who was a first team player there for almost 10 years. Don't think he'll be a regular starter at Dortmund though, at least not if everyone in midfield is fit. They also signed Roman Bürki as their new first choice goalkeeper from Freiburg. So far 19 year old Julian Weigl seems to have the biggest impact of all the new additions though. He came from 1860 and was fantastic today in his first ever Bundesliga game, playing in midfield next to Gündogan.

More important than all the new signings is that they kept all key players and that everyone is healthy and fit with the exception of Sahin. But with their new depth in CM, they can give Sahin time to get 100% healthy again before they start playing him.
 
maze said:
first season since forever in which dortmund did not have to replace a key-player. i mean on the pitch. also i'm very content in tuchel and have been favouring him as klopp's only logical replacement, but then that was not really rocket science.

now it'll be all about tuchel's man-handling when it comes to veteran players and a bunch of promising youngsters heavily competing for a seat on the bench - speaking of großkreutz, kuba, bender, hofmann, ginter, durm and/or dudziak - the latter four may even see themselves moved to the 2nd team from time to time, so as to at least give them more than a handful of minutes in competitive matches - or may even see themselves rotting on the stands, repeatedly... i do see this issue as tuchel's primary obstacle in his first year, in the long run that is.
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Europa League should be ample time for most of them I'd guess. Leitner is back with BvB this season too?

Gundogan looked slim again today, and had a few nice turns and dribbles. Hummels was the real standout I thought. Was involved in the first two goals and was good at the back again. Almost scored a header too. His biggest involvement was probably as playmaker though. He was like a libero today, with Piszcech and Schmelzer splitting really wide and Hummels stepping forward. He found Kagawa and Reus in the channels so man times. Gladbach were dire though, Xhaka was invisible and missing Kramer is huge. Hopefully Dortmund take advantage of an easy start. Matches versus Bayern,Levurkusen, Wolfsburg and Schalke should be quality this season.
 
Lets see how they are in a month or 2. I remember this time last year, everyone was raving about Bielsa's Marseille.
 
I watched the game for 60 minutes and had to leave for some work. I am not an avid bundesliga follower. I thought Dortmund were very impressive, the thing that impressed me was their hunger and their competitiveness. Here are my observations-
  • First of all shinji kagawa looked in place, I know he was the cafe's lover boy but he never came good for us, Last 6 months in dortmund was not great either but today he looked inventive. He was playing a little deeper than he used to when he played there with lewandowiski. That position has been occupied by the excellent henrikh(i cant type the second part of his name). Kagawa looked in great shape, good close control some great passes, he assisted the first goal well, the quick passing game suits him well. Also i think some of his longer passing was good too, specially when he passed left to rues.
  • Gundogan looked rusty, yes he put in the striker aubameyang for the goal but he looks a level below his team mates, some of the game did pass him by, i think he will take good 6 months of game time before we see the best of him again.
  • Rues, henrikh , aubameyang all looked very silky, very neat and ver quick players. Their technique is wonderful and the trainer coach seems to have gotten them to work and think together. There were no broken moves, they dominated possession and cut gladbach apart almost at will.
  • Gladbach manager has some serious balls! He played a 19 year old and a 20 year old in central defense for the game. schulz who i believe is very highly rated and he was partnered by ex chelsea player christensen (danish i believe). Although 4-0 scoreline shows defenders have had a poor day, but i think it was more of a midfield problem and the mastery of the coach of dortmund that is Mr.Tuchel
  • Now the thing i loved about tuchel and this match was his use of Hummels, it was fantastic! You have to watch the game to know the genious use of his vision and creativity by tuchel. Of all the midfield options Dortmund had Tuchel used Hummels as his playmaker, if you notice carefully Hummels started the move for the first goal and was venturing out into centre midfield and forward . He played passes better than our midfield under fergie's later years could. Brilliant showing by him and you could see why LVG would want him, so comfortable on both feet, passing it like a midfielder, creative and dominant at the back. Won most headers and would be my man of the match. Tuchel used full backs to widen the play and strech gladbach, hummels would move up into centre midfield, Sokratis would drop deep and so would one of the midfielders, this caused havoc in gladbachs team and they simply could not figure out what was happening.
  • I would also like to mention the new kid that dortmund got from 1860 i believe, Weigl i think his name was. He had a good debut, the technique is good was solid in ,most things he did. He is only 19 i believe so that is very good performance on basis of his age and experience.
All in all a fantastic performance by dortmund, i wonder if we will ever play such great fast attacking football again. It made me a little jealous how good they play, which is a great compliment to dortmund.
 
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Maradona10 said:
  • Now the thing i loved about tuchel and this match was his use of Hummels, it was fantastic! You have to watch the game to know the genious use of his vision and creativity by tuchel. Of all the midfield options Dortmund had Tuchel used Hummels as his playmaker, if you notice carefully Hummels started the move for the first goal and was venturing out into centre midfield and forward . He played passes better than our midfield under fergie's later years could. Brilliant showing by him and you could see why LVG would want him, so comfortable on both feet, passing it like a midfielder, creative and dominant at the back. Won most headers and would be my man of the match. Tuchel used full backs to widen the play and strech gladbach, hummels would move up into centre midfield, Sokratis would drop deep and so would one of the midfielders, this caused havoc in gladbachs team and they simply could not figure out what was happening.
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Maybe I´m missing something significant here, but Hummels playes the exact same role as he did since the season 2011/2012. He is our primary build up player, vital for the team in that regard. He is now simply in a proper form which can be seen the most in his passing game, which is back to its usual level.

Thomas Tuchel is an amazing coach, who certainly deserves a lot of credit of setting up this team. However, IMO the most important reason why Thomas Tuchel is the ideal successor of Jürgen Klopp is that he openly honors the foundation which the latter has built for Borussia Dortmund. This can be seen by looking at the squad, which did not underwent the massive overhaul which many predicted. It is still a quality squad, which normally belongs in the CL and the top group of the league.

Furthermore, Tuchel did not temper too much with the teams DNA. Today the team showed supreme pressing, a lot of hard work in terms of movement and quick transitions. The last two goals used to be trademark goals of the era Klopp. Rather than radically changing the tactical set up, Tuchel builts on said foundation, fleshes it out and makes it more flexible. He identified the weaknesses of the team (passing accuracy, composure in ball possession, width) and worked on that while keeping the old strengths intact.

In the end he manages to do what most supporter hoped when he was appointed: creating the right impulses for a struggling team to bring them back to their best. Klopp could not do that anymore after seven years, which is no shame given that such long tenures have become extremely rare in modern club football. This does not make Tuchel the way superior coach or some kind of messiah, though, although the media likes to paint it that way with the neverending comparisions. It makes him the more suitable coach for the club right now.
 
Aubameyang is brilliant. Such an asset to have for a counter attacking side.
 
A funny thing about Julian Weigl...

He played for the same club (Rosenheim) before he came to TSV 1860 as Bastian Schweinsteiger did before he went to Bayern. The Bender brothers, who were in the same school Schweinsteiger was in, come out of the same region - and went to 1860 like he did.

Schweinsteiger's youth coach of the U-team in Rosenheim works at 1860 since end of the 1990s... - so has coached all four four of them in the youth teams.
 
UEFA.com's weekly wonderkid: Julian Weigl
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2271008.html

ps. i know it's overly easy to get all hyped up on youngsters who play an exciting pre-season and a few good matches at senior level, yet i still find weigl to be really composed, calm and, erm, highly functional. his decision-making was on point 95% of the time in all of his recent displays. it's just nice to see him deliver for the time being, at least as long as sahin is being ruled out.
 
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Sphaero said:
Maybe I´m missing something significant here, but Hummels playes the exact same role as he did since the season 2011/2012. He is our primary build up player, vital for the team in that regard. He is now simply in a proper form which can be seen the most in his passing game, which is back to its usual level.

Thomas Tuchel is an amazing coach, who certainly deserves a lot of credit of setting up this team. However, IMO the most important reason why Thomas Tuchel is the ideal successor of Jürgen Klopp is that he openly honors the foundation which the latter has built for Borussia Dortmund. This can be seen by looking at the squad, which did not underwent the massive overhaul which many predicted. It is still a quality squad, which normally belongs in the CL and the top group of the league.

Furthermore, Tuchel did not temper too much with the teams DNA. Today the team showed supreme pressing, a lot of hard work in terms of movement and quick transitions. The last two goals used to be trademark goals of the era Klopp. Rather than radically changing the tactical set up, Tuchel builts on said foundation, fleshes it out and makes it more flexible. He identified the weaknesses of the team (passing accuracy, composure in ball possession, width) and worked on that while keeping the old strengths intact.

In the end he manages to do what most supporter hoped when he was appointed: creating the right impulses for a struggling team to bring them back to their best. Klopp could not do that anymore after seven years, which is no shame given that such long tenures have become extremely rare in modern club football. This does not make Tuchel the way superior coach or some kind of messiah, though, although the media likes to paint it that way with the neverending comparisions. It makes him the more suitable coach for the club right now.
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Hi, Sorry that i kept you waiting for a reply. I was comparing Hummels this match with last season and not 11/12. I know he builds up play for dortmund, but yesterday there was lot of purpose about him and that is why i made him my man of the match. In one of the goals he was the third furthest from the goal, which is remarkable for a Cb.

Now some counter points-
  • I did not call tuchel a messiah or a superior coach, but bringing "impulses" in a team that so lacked it last season is not an easy job and tuchel has done well in that regard i think. Also i am sure i have not seen hummels so far up the field in many matches, usually he dictates the play like a 6 making an odd run forward, today the use of hummels was different. I know you are a dortmund fan and will know more about him than me but this is what i observed
  • I think tactics were different,The width and more possession based. You simply did not beat Gladbach you outclassed them. Then after 60 mins killed the game i hear. The use of kagawa was very different than under klopp. Yes no manager will change a team in 30 days, but yes the ideas and taking a team struggling last year to beat last seasons best second half team is a good start.
I would like to ask you, what do you think of dortmund's aspirations this year? you think dortmund will challenge for the league? How about anymore signings you are going to make? Does dortmund have money to bring in players to take on bayern munich who have improved with vidal and costa?
 
No more swift, explosive counter-attacks but more passes, possession and waiting for the right time to pick a pass; that has changed under Thomas Tuchel.

Yesterday, Dortmund's first half was as good as anything under Klopp during 2011-2013.
 
Maradona10 said:
I would like to ask you, what do you think of dortmund's aspirations this year? you think dortmund will challenge for the league?
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Nope, unless Bayern struggle more than I imagine. I still expect Tuchel to need to work out some kinks in the team. Nonetheless, a season of around 70 points is realistic, which will pretty surely put us in the top 3, but behind Bayern Munich.

How about anymore signings you are going to make?
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Nope, squad is set. If there is any transfer business it is rather one or two player, who won´t play a real role anymore, leave.
 
maze said:
UEFA.com's weekly wonderkid: Julian Weigl
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2271008.html

ps. i know it's overly easy to get all hyped up on youngsters who play an exciting pre-season and a few good matches at senior level, yet i still find weigl to be really composed, calm and, erm, highly functional. his decision-making was on point 95% of the time in all of his recent displays. it's just nice to see him deliver for the time being, at least as long as sahin is being ruled out.
Click to expand...

Won't Sahin be competing with Gündogan for the creative DM role? I think Bender is more or less the direct competition for Weigl, isn't he?
 
Jaap said:
No more swift, explosive counter-attacks but more passes, possession and waiting for the right time to pick a pass; that has changed under Thomas Tuchel.

Yesterday, Dortmund's first half was as good as anything under Klopp during 2011-2013.
Click to expand...

The team can still play very fast counter attacks but they are much more variable now and look very comfortable in possession, something that never was the case under Klopp. I'm actually quite surprised how fast Tuchel has implemented his much more flexible style at Dortmund despite the fact that they almost exclusively played route one kamikaze attacking football under Klopp for the last 7 years.
 
Jaap said:
No more swift, explosive counter-attacks but more passes, possession and waiting for the right time to pick a pass; that has changed under Thomas Tuchel.
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Tuchel is a brilliant manager. I wanted United to sign him two years ago but this ship has sailed. He also seems to be a lot more relaxed and emotionally balanced.
 
NoLogo said:
Won't Sahin be competing with Gündogan for the creative DM role? I think Bender is more or less the direct competition for Weigl, isn't he?
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i don't even see sahin and gündogan competing for the same position - sahin developed into a deep-lying, pirlo-esque holding-midfielder role, while gündogan is being used more and more as a central-midfield type of player. in a 4-2-3-1, they'd rather play alongside each other, while in a 4-1-4-1, they wouldn't really play the same spot.
 
PedroMendez said:
Tuchel is a brilliant manager. I wanted United to sign him two years ago but this ship has sailed. He also seems to be a lot more relaxed and emotionally balanced.
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:lol: I think I wait until Dortmund has lost a game with a questionable referee decision before I agree with that.
 
Balu said:
:lol: I think I wait until Dortmund has lost a game with a questionable referee decision before I agree with that.
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Well, he is a pretty sore loser, but so are most top coaches. Probably the drive that you need to succeed on that level. He can also become pretty grouchy with players (there is a glorious video of his time at Mainz on youtube showing that), if they continue to ignore his orders.

He is still less open about his emotions than Klopp. You can also see, that he does not really enjoy working with the media, while the latter enjoyed that sometimes too much. I still think he handled the press work very well at this point (better than I expected), especially the constant comparisions to Klopp. It is never easy to succeed a legend (at least in the eyes of the supporters), eventhough the last season made a transition easier. The Impression I get from Tuchel, is that he is willing to work on things even if he struggles with it. This open mind is really a positive point about him.
 
Sphaero said:
Well, he is a pretty sore loser, but so are most top coaches. Probably the drive that you need to succeed on that level. He can also become pretty grouchy with players (there is a glorious video of his time at Mainz on youtube showing that), if they continue to ignore his orders.

He is still less open about his emotions than Klopp. You can also see, that he does not really enjoy working with the media, while the latter enjoyed that sometimes too much. I still think he handled the press work very well at this point (better than I expected), especially the constant comparisions to Klopp. It is never easy to succeed a legend (at least in the eyes of the supporters), eventhough the last season made a transition easier. The Impression I get from Tuchel, is that he is willing to work on things even if he struggles with it. This open mind is really a positive point about him.
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He has a very unique talent to sound especially whiny even when compared to all the other sore losers. I agree with everything else. But then I always rated him highly and never doubted that he'll be a fantastic choice for Dortmund, so I'm not really that surprised.
 
They'll propably challenge for the title for a while but I doubt they'll be consistent enough in Tuchels first season too hold out till the end. Like Sphaero said, sooner or later they will have some problems. I expect a top 3 finish tho.
I don't think that they will win the Europe League this year - the supposingly "strongest" teams that look destined to walk it never win it in the end.
Still, should be interesting to see how far they get. I also hope the connection Gündogan - Mkhitaryan - Reus - Aubameyang continues too play and develope like we've seen so far, they are brilliant to watch.
 
Kasper said:
They'll propably challenge for the title for a while but I doubt they'll be consistent enough in Tuchels first season too hold out till the end. Like Sphaero said, sooner or later they will have some problems. I expect a top 3 finish tho.
I don't think that they will win the Europe League this year - the supposingly "strongest" teams that look destined to walk it never win it in the end.
Still, should be interesting to see how far they get. I also hope the connection Gündogan - Mkhitaryan - Reus - Aubameyang continues too play and develope like we've seen so far, they are brilliant to watch.
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It's really hard to predict. Yes they have a new coach, but on the other hand the core of the squad has been playing together for years now. And while it seems like Tuchel can definitely improve them he still uses the stuff that Klopp hammered into their heads for seven years as his foundation. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they keep marching on, but obviously a lot of things can happen in football and whether you have a run or not often depends on having the necessary amount of luck in the right situations and avoiding injuries.
I expect Bayern to get well above 80 points this season, so it would probably take an injury and crisis free season with everyone performing to his full potential to be even close to them in the end.
I still don't rate the other teams that highly: Schalke are volatile by definition, their squad is young and despite signing Geis they still lack personell at CM. I'm also not convinced if their 442 with two central strikers will work out against smart defending opponents. Leverkusen are basically a bunch of kids, I think they can turn out either way and the difference of Wolfsburg being a decent and a top team depends almost entirely on de Bruyne imho.
Gladbach were probably the most homogenous and solid of the bunch last season, but Dortmund really showed the holes that Kramer and Kruse left behind.

Balu said:
He has a very unique talent to sound especially whiny even when compared to all the other sore losers. I agree with everything else. But then I always rated him highly and never doubted that he'll be a fantastic choice for Dortmund, so I'm not really that surprised.
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I had the impression that he mellowed out a bit over the years, but maybe that's just because of his break.
 
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Kasper said:
They'll propably challenge for the title for a while but I doubt they'll be consistent enough in Tuchels first season too hold out till the end. Like Sphaero said, sooner or later they will have some problems. I expect a top 3 finish tho.
I don't think that they will win the Europe League this year - the supposingly "strongest" teams that look destined to walk it never win it in the end.
Still, should be interesting to see how far they get. I also hope the connection Gündogan - Mkhitaryan - Reus - Aubameyang continues too play and develope like we've seen so far, they are brilliant to watch.
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Both Sevilla and Atletico Madrid were part of the favourites to win it the second time they did and so was Chelsea after dropping down from the CL.

I would agree that while it is the clear goal it should not be expected that we win it, though. Advancing from Group stages has to be expected, even reaching at least the quarter final with a normal draw would be. After that it is like every KO tournament and a lot will depend on daily form and what kind of teams join from the CL.
 
@Sphaero Has Castro played rightback in any of your pre-season games as well? Surprised to see it, he hated the position so much a few years ago that he rather was left out of the nationalteam than play there. What's with Durm? Surely he deserves another shot at one of the fullback positions, he was excellent for a while after all.
 
Balu said:
@Sphaero Has Castro played rightback in any of your pre-season games as well? Surprised to see it, he hated the position so much a few years ago that he rather was left out of the nationalteam than play there. What's with Durm? Surely he deserves another shot at one of the fullback positions, he was excellent for a while after all.
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Looks promising :lol:
 
:lol: Conceding after 19 seconds.
 
If Dortmund gets knocked out of Europa League(Probably not happening, but they are trailing 1-0), should we try and get Reus?! :wenger::drool:
 
vk20legend said:
If Dortmund gets knocked out of Europa League(Probably not happening, but they are trailing 1-0), should we try and get Reus?! :wenger::drool:
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You should try anyway. I doubt Europa League or not makes a big difference for him.
 
And what the feck is happening in that game, I can't watch. Ffs, at least score a goal, fecking useless Dortmund.
 
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