Manchester United are the best drilled defensive unit in league - G Neville

Some of it might have to do with DDG. Is there a stat for number of chances conceded in that same period? (Haven't watched the video yet) I would reckon that might give us an even better indicator of how our defence performed.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Was just watching Monday Night Football and Nev was praising our defensive unit, shape, high line and praised Blind for 'marshalling' the defence. Showed some examples of us at Villa playing the high back line and the team being very compact.

Carried on to say the next two weeks would be crucial for United, we can't afford to lose De Gea, look short up front and could struggle at CB if we get a couple of injuries (referenced the fact Jones is out at the moment).

Carragher also said Schneiderlin was the signing of the summer.

Anyone able to upload a video, would be great for those who haven't seen it? Was only a 4/5 minute segment.
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This thread is over and hour and a half old and just about broke two pages. Goes to show a lot of people on here cant handle rational analysis.
 
Ramshock said:
Gary Neville = Redcafe god
Dailey Blind = Worst CB ever according to Redcafe
LVG = Doesnt know what he is doing according to Redcafe
Gary Neville says United best drilled defense = ?
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= Smalling best defender in the league!
 
Ramshock said:
Whats it got to do with DDG?
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Er, we might have conceded a lot of chances but DDG saved a lot of them, like against Liverpool or Arsenal away for example. Not necessarily saying that's what happened in this period but a separate stat for chances conceded would help in getting a clearer picture.
 
Basa1987 said:
Er, we might have conceded a lot of chances but DDG saved a lot of them, like against Liverpool or Arsenal away for example. Not necessarily saying that's what happened in this period but a separate stat for chances conceded would help in getting a clearer picture.
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For the first two games of this season? I think its really easy to tell we are harder to break down and Romero hasnt had to make many saves at all.
 
Hal9000 said:
Think it stems from how Van Gaal set up his Holland team for the World Cup. Very organised, compact, pressed well... only difference is they had Robben just to run at defenders. Did well for them, think the whole of the Netherlands complained about him abandoning the dutch style, but they he got 3rd place with one of the weakest, and ageing dutch teams for a whilst and probably unlucky not to get to the finals.
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I watched most of their games and they basically peaked in their first game against Spain. As a Utd fan I was really impressed with his pragmatic approach in regards to tactics but it dawned to me even then that I was seeing some truly awful football from one of the greatest footballing nations in the world. He made the best out of that squad to what he thought was effective (it certainly was) but I don't think he left anything positive for Hiddink to build on and the style of football wasn't progressive.

In some ways he's took over from Van Marwijk, the same way he took over from Moyes. The expansive football played by both teams were gone by the time he walked in.

I'm definitely leaning in the critical camp of LVG but I've not lost complete faith because I do see the improvements. It's just I'm not sure whether to think it's a glass half empty or half full, that he's managed to take teams like Holland and Utd, have players at his disposal that can play incisive attacking football but has blunted it and almost halted it to a screeching stop for the sake of stability. Should I be happy that a club of our stature and talented players are hard to break down? I would have thought that's the bare minimum.

I'm not seeing that middle-ground and I'm not sure if it's because I'm impatient or LVG hasn't realised/will admit it yet. My head is saying it's the former, my heart is saying the latter.
 
I've really been impressed with blind myself in the roll he has played. Leader part I was unaware of as I'm not privy to that angle Neville showed. We have been defending well for quite some time now and the midfield hardly being by passed has made it even easier for the back four. Getting the front 4 to click now is imperative.
 
criticalanalysis said:
I watched most of their games and they basically peaked in their first game against Spain. As a Utd fan I was really impressed with his pragmatic approach in regards to tactics but it dawned to me even then that I was seeing some truly awful football from one of the greatest footballing nations in the world. He made the best out of that squad to what he thought was effective (it certainly was) but I don't think he left anything positive for Hiddink to build on and the style of football wasn't progressive.

In some ways he's took over from Van Marwijk, the same way he took over from Moyes. The expansive football played by both teams were gone by the time he walked in.

I'm definitely leaning in the critical camp of LVG but I've not lost complete faith because I do see the improvements. It's just I'm not sure whether to think it's a glass half empty or half full, that he's managed to take teams like Holland and Utd, have players at his disposal that can play incisive attacking football but has blunted it and almost halted it to a screeching stop for the sake of stability. Should I be happy that a club of our stature and talented players are hard to break down? I would have thought that's the bare minimum.

I'm not seeing that middle-ground and I'm not sure if it's because I'm impatient or LVG hasn't realised/will admit it yet. My head is saying it's the former, my heart is saying the latter.
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The thing is, I don't think what we're seeing atm is anywhere near to the finished article. He knows there is a lot more to do and is just focusing on building the necessary foundations. It really is no different to SAF in that regard (it took us getting Vidic and Evra in before we were really able to challenge on all fronts, and before them, it was the stopgap of Blanc who allowed us to win the title in 02/03. I'm sure the progressive play will come, but as LVG says, it's a 'process' ;)
 
VorZakone said:
Titles. But I disagree with that statement, you need a great attack as much as you need a great defence IMO.
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Trends changed now. Top heavy teams are sweeping up European Cups now too - see Barcelona and Madrid. League titles have always favoured towards the best attacking teams though - you gain more points by winning a game than you lose by losing a game.
 
Skills said:
Trends changed now. Top heavy teams are sweeping up European Cups now too - see Barcelona and Madrid. League titles have always favoured towards the best attacking teams though - you gain more points by winning a game than you lose by losing a game.
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Yeah, defenders in general nowadays are not as good as they should be but on the other side there is loads of really good attacking talent. When Barca's front three are in full form it's basically cheating. But that's a different discussion anyway. Having 2 fb's who are good at defending in Shaw and Darmian is a very good foundation to work on.
 
VorZakone said:
Titles. But I disagree with that statement, you need a great attack as much as you need a great defence IMO.
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In my opinion Van Haal has done things the right way around - you build a solid foundation that's hard to breakdown and beat and then you work on expressing yourselves from there. United players from the 90s used to talk about winning the physical battle and then the class would shine through and I feel like it's the same kind of principle. For me, it's the difference between amateur level football and professional - lower down the league pyramid you just need one or two creative players and you can tear sides apart and get noticed; but at the very top level of the game you need to get the defensive part right first or else you'll come unstuck against the best teams.

I'd argue it's also the reason people say we're good in the big games but lacked last season against some of the "lesser" opposition. We're defensively sound which nullifies the big boys but we're maybe lacking an edge up front which has prevented us from shining against opposition that are perceived to be weaker. In all honesty, it would be nice to have both, but I'd be more concerned about Van Haal's tenure if we had an attack which looked lively but were leaky at the back.

I'm not convinced that feeling is universal
 
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Chelsea's defence won them the title last year. Especially when their goals started to dry up
 
Skills said:
Trends changed now. Top heavy teams are sweeping up European Cups now too - see Barcelona and Madrid. League titles have always favoured towards the best attacking teams though - you gain more points by winning a game than you lose by losing a game.
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Barca and Madrid aren't exactly top heavy, they just have some of the best players in world football up there. Pique, Ramos, Varane, Carvajal, Alves, Mascherano, (sometimes) Alba etc. are all still excellent players.

Not sure about a couple of Barca's defenders to be fair, atrocious defending for that Bilbao goal today. Reckon they could do with signing a new Puyol.
 
iBoss said:
One injury and it could be Blind and McNair at CB.
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Or you know, blind and Evans, or blind and Jones, or rojo and one of them.... Smalling and blind are our first choice pairing, but we have Jones, Evans, rojo, McNair and Carrick if needed as back up. Its more then enough, number wise. I doubt we'll have as bad of a injury crisis as last season.
 
bosnian_red said:
Or you know, blind and Evans, or blind and Jones, or rojo and one of them.... Smalling and blind are our first choice pairing, but we have Jones, Evans, rojo, McNair and Carrick if needed as back up. Its more then enough, number wise. I doubt we'll have as bad of a injury crisis as last season.
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Evans and Rojo are nowhere to be found and Jones is injured. You can doubt as much as you like but we have an injury crisis basically every year.
 
Hard to argue with the idea that we'd be worse off if two of our first choice CBs were injured.
 
Skills said:
Trends changed now. Top heavy teams are sweeping up European Cups now too - see Barcelona and Madrid. League titles have always favoured towards the best attacking teams though - you gain more points by winning a game than you lose by losing a game.
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The 2 best defences in the major leagues last year were Bayern and Barca
 
I think Pogue started a thread on it but it really is nice to have two proper fullbacks who can play a bit. Especially pleased so far with the new boy Darmians efforts. Nice to see Mike Smalling improving all the time.
 
LennonNL said:
Barca and Madrid aren't exactly top heavy, they just have some of the best players in world football up there. Pique, Ramos, Varane, Carvajal, Alves, Mascherano, (sometimes) Alba etc. are all still excellent players.

Not sure about a couple of Barca's defenders to be fair, atrocious defending for that Bilbao goal today. Reckon they could do with signing a new Puyol.
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Top heavy was probably the wrong term, but both teams were stacked full of attacking talent. Both Alba and Alves are extreme attack first wing backs and the only real specialist defensive players in the team were Mascherano, Pique and Busquets.

Same with Madrid in 13/14 - who only really had Alonso, Pepe, Ramos as the real dedicated defensive players. Though Carvajal is not anywhere near as extreme as Marcelo, Alba and Alves in his attacking play.
 
anyone else shocked that we are defensively the most solid team in the league? 23 goals conceded...if i didnt see that i would have thought we worent even in the top 5.
 
iBoss said:
Evans and Rojo are nowhere to be found and Jones is injured. You can doubt as much as you like but we have an injury crisis basically every year.
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Rojo came back from pre season late so wasn't match fit, why would he be out of favour all of a sudden? Evans is probably for sale but I still wouldn't be too worried. We have 2 back ups for right center back in Jones and Carrick, and 2 for left center back in rojo and Evans if really needed.

And last season was a lot worse then normal. Now with added cover in midfield they won't be exposed as much and I think it'll help conserve their fitness as well.
 
Give Daley Blind the arm band. Looks like he's the boss of this team. Giving everyone the instructions, the most understanding of what LVG wants etc.
 
i think Schneiderlin will be the main key to this. he just makes the midfield more compact and that helps the back 4.
 
Basa1987 said:
Er, we might have conceded a lot of chances but DDG saved a lot of them, like against Liverpool or Arsenal away for example. Not necessarily saying that's what happened in this period but a separate stat for chances conceded would help in getting a clearer picture.
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Chances conceded has more to do with the midfield ahead of the defense, tbf. With a better midfield, you concede fewer chances
 
As much as the goals conceded stat is excellent, I do think we have to remember that De Gea was regularly saving our arses last seasons with his brilliant performances and wonderful saves. Not that it'd have been terrible without him, and it is still obviously impressive, but it probably wouldn't look quite so good if we'd had an inferior keeper.

Still, we do look like an effective defensive unit at the moment if we're looking at how we've done in the first couple of goals. No goals conceded, Smalling is a solid centre-back, Blind appears to have slotted in well, and Darmain looks like a superb signing. I do think we need another top class centre back long-term, although we're not too bad in defence at the moment. Still plenty of bigger tests to come, though.
 
Cheesy said:
As much as the goals conceded stat is excellent, I do think we have to remember that De Gea was regularly saving our arses last seasons with his brilliant performances and wonderful saves. Not that it'd have been terrible without him, and it is still obviously impressive, but it probably wouldn't look quite so good if we'd had an inferior keeper.

Still, we do look like an effective defensive unit at the moment if we're looking at how we've done in the first couple of goals. No goals conceded, Smalling is a solid centre-back, Blind appears to have slotted in well, and Darmain looks like a superb signing. I do think we need another top class centre back long-term, although we're not too bad in defence at the moment. Still plenty of bigger tests to come, though.
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Are you convinced that neither Jones, Rojo or Blind have the ability to become that top class centerback?

Surely at some point, you have to throw to gauntlet down at your existing players, trust in their abilities and demand they fulfil their potential? I'd much prefer that outcome.
 
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@Niall
 
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