Naturally its going to be different than Plan A, but abandoning all football wont solve anything. It didn't help us much so far did it? I expect better solutions than idiotic hoofball nonetheless. Seeing its the worst solution I've ever seen, its the best stick to beat Lvg with.
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Cheers.
Except it has helped us. Just because you chose ignore the examples that have been given in this thread doesn't mean it hasn't helped us.
Abandon all football then kick it Fellaini's head? It didn't help us against Liverpool, Swansea, PSV, and many games from last season etc. Its highly ineffective and a shitty plan.
Mourinho used to introduce Huth as a striker on the rare occasion when Chelsea found themselves behind during his first spell there. I don't think he scored even once.
Wrong. SAF never played hoofball. Lvg's use of Fellaini is hoofball. Its idiotic. its inefffecive.
Strong opinions!
He scored against City didn't he?
Either way, I'm going back to the real world for a while. You've been watching too much Barcelona.
Having a Plan B is better than being stubborn like Wenger.
I didn't say Sir Alex played hoofball, I just said that Sir Alex did equally bizarre stuff when we needed a goal.
Well Playmaker, what to do when being behind versus a parked bus. Enlighten me. Hopefully Louis reads the caf as he clearly doesn't have a clue. Now, don't start with we should have bought this and that, because with fecking Messi everything gets easy.
Even Guardiola used to deploy Pique there sometimes. Certainly remember him.doing this against Inter Milan in the CL semi final.
We lost 8 games out of 29 with Fellaini, so it's no exactly ineffective.
Just because you believe it help us, when it never did, or more correctly very rarely did, doesn't mean it help us. On the contrary it brings more trouble for us, and highly reduce our chances of saving a game.
That wasnt hoofball was it? That was different from what we saw against Swansea, Liverpool, PSV this season wasnt it?Strong opinions!
He scored against City didn't he?
Either way, I'm going back to the real world for a while. You've been watching too much Barcelona.
That was a different tactical setup. A good tactical setup, which still baffles me why Lvg abandon it.
I kinda agree with @ThePlaymaker here. Nothing wrong with bringing on Fellaini and playing crosses into him but just hoofing it up to him from all areas of the pitch is terrible to watch and doesn't help us in the slightest. Both Swansea and PSV dealt with it easily. Some of the examples given in here for times when it worked are wrong too, his goal versus Brugges and his one versus Spurs last season didn't come from hoofball.
What SAF used to save games was much better, much more advanced than Lvg's use of Fellaini to save games. The difference is night and day.
You're using imaginary events that never happen to disprove my hoofball point. I'm not going to agree with you on that.
Okay mate.
True, scored a goal too.
Lvg has used Fellaini in many different ways. Some good, some bad. But his use of Fellaini to play hoofball to rescue games is inexcusable. I dont know why any United fan would support this.
It only worked against Brugge because they're absolutely abysmal. Yet everyone lap this up and wont hear a word against it.
Right, putting on 4 strikers with no one to create chances for them was much better than goofball. Got it.
Ww certainly went through the gears with Fergie rather than what we do now which is to go from patient build up to suddenly going hoof ball.
However I still think Fergie could have used a Fellaini style player in his last seasons as breaking down stubborn defences was a massive problem for us then and we'd aimlessly pass it around the edge of their box.
LvG definetely has the tools to switch it up and go for the jugular but I think he prefers well drilled meanoveurs over such raw open play.
Guardiola's use of Pique is not hoofball! How can you equate that with Lvg's use of Fellaini in his hoofball. This difference is night and day mate. Its like using the argument "SAF use heavy crossing games to rescue matches". Well SAF's crossing games is much more advance. How can anyone equate this with Lvg's hoofball. Its mind boggling.
Funny thing you say this, because who decides to hoof it to Fellaini when he is brought in? Does LvG say before the match this time lads hoof it and the next game the opposite? In those situations you need players that can think for themselves as by then it is practically out of the staff their hands. Barca had much moe creative and intelligent players, therefore there is a difference.
Because it's effective, it's been mentioned 104032905258937 times in this thread and you, for some reason, try to state otherwise despite being proven wrong on numerous occasions.
You jumping on LVG in every thread is starting to be very, very tiresome.
I dont know when or who decide its been proven wrong. I dont know who has the authority to decide this case is closed. But I dont agree with it. Its not effective. I stand by my opinion. If Lvg use hoofball again I will criticize him again.
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I think some of you aren't getting what ThePlaymaker means by hoofball. I don't think he means crossing it to Fellaini or playing it to him and him using his strength to bring others into play. I think he means when all of our players, no matter where they or Fellaini are on the pitch, just play it high to him in the hope he can do something with it. That definitely hasn't worked for us.
It must be something that they are told to do though. Using the PSV game as an example, we were looking good and creating chances by playing the normal way. Then Fellaini comes on and everyone just stops passing it around and start playing it long to Fellaini instead. The players can't have just collectively decided to do this unless under instruction imo.
And the Pique and Barca example doesn't really work either as again, that wasn't hoofball. They still tried to play it around, and they just had Pique up there as an option for crosses. They didn't play it long to him at every opportunity like we have with Fellaini against PSV and Swansea.
What are you on about?
SAF setup to rescue games is one of his greatest managerial skill. SAF populate the box with players, but then they made movements. One player to the near post, one player to the far post, and one in the middle. Then winger's put in quality crosses. SAF also put outside the box to collect the second balls. Also fullback at the ready to create a new wave of attacks. Its a great setup, thats we managed to rescue games with this despite not having tall players all the time.
Lvg's hoofball has none of this. No quality crosses. No movements in the box. No players around the box to get second balls. No link up play between fullback and wingers. Just kick the ball from 50 yard to Fellaini's head. Its a very mediocre tactical setup, thats why its ineffective despite having the tallest player on the pitch.
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Exactly. I don't know why people think its effective when its the opposite. Maybe because Lvg put Fellaini on at West Brom and West Ham away last season and we get a result, people say its the same thing, when its not.
It was definitely on instructions. Its a very mediocre tactical setup and good teams can deal with it comfortably. I'll criticize Lvg when he use that again. Our team has way much better talents to resort to something like that.
We were so good at creating chances in the starting few matches last season with Di Maria, Herrera and co. in full flow. If Di Maria was still with us and had the same confidence and desire as the initial matches last season LVG could have simply let them loose if we were chasing a match. Right now I don't think we have similarly talented and in-form attackers that could open good opposition teams at will even if LVG gave them all the freedom in the world.
Another thing the team lacks though is the patience and lack of panic of the SAF teams even in the last minutes. In the last 5-10 minutes chasing a game, we lose our collective heads and start forcing the issue instead of playing smartly. This is something LVG is responsible for.
Another thing the team lacks though is the patience and lack of panic of the SAF teams even in the last minutes. In the last 5-10 minutes chasing a game, we lose our collective heads and start forcing the issue instead of playing smartly. This is something LVG is responsible for.
Yea, letting them loose worked pretty well against Leicester or MK Dons.
That was not hoofball mate. What are you on about? We still play football then. As I said Lvg has used Fellaini in different ways some good and some bad. But this hoofball is definitely the latter.
That's why I advocated doing that only if we are chasing a game not always! We were shambles defensively which I wouldn't like to see even if it makes for a wild roller coaster ride (anyway I hate roller coasters
)You'll complain if we were losing and he stuck to his original plans, see Wenger & Arsenal fans.
Dont put words in my mouth. I'd rather see us continue to play football even if we lose against PSV, than hoofing it mindlessly to Fellaini.
That's why I advocated doing that only if we are chasing a game not always! We were shambles defensively which I wouldn't like to see even if it makes for a wild roller coaster ride (anyway I hate roller coasters
Roger that and I can't really agree with the argument that we were so good with creating chances at the beggining of the season. We've lost to Swans scoring one goal, drew at Sunderland scoring 1 goal, lost to Dons scoring 0, drew against Burnley scoring 0 and then had two matches where we've scored 3+, 4-0 QPR and lost 5-3 against Leicester. So it's not really like we've been scoring plenty back then.
Then it was a couple of games where we've scored 2 or 1 iirc, Chelsea, City, WHU and West Brom come to my mind.
I don't think LVG's plan is necessarily to hoof mindlessly to Fellaini. It is simply to give another option to the team, which can be useful specially because by definition in such situations the opposition is camped in their box and we are struggling to find our players. Also it can give the opposition team something to think about and perhaps open up space for others.
The mindless hoofing in a couple of matches has been a product of our team panicking more than anything else to be honest. I will have to go and check but I don't think the calmer heads in Schweinsteiger and Carrick did that. Its not LVG's tactics but the team and I expect him to paper over this issue in coming matches.
Neither was the game against Liverpool that you keep referring to
Well the most early ones were when we had quite a few new players missing. The purple patch was really small, I agree, but it showed that the team had real attacking potential but not without being defensively vulnerable. Not unlike the purple patch in 2011-12 season ( I think) when Welbeck, Anderson and Cleverley & co. really hit Arsenal and Spurs hard. Poor Wenger has never been the same since