Willian

Bob Loblaw said:
You just said Willian wasn't preferred over other players because of his work rate though, then went on to say the reason he's better suited than Mata is because of exactly that...:wenger:
Click to expand...

Nah you just misunderstood my first post, probably because I was rushing so it wasn't clearly worded. I wasn't saying he wasn't preferred for his work-rate, I was saying that he's not one of those Mourinho players who is basically just work-rate. We're not talking Mikel-as-a-winger here. He's not Mata, but he's quite skilful, capable of a lovely dribble, can shoot, and apparently scores a free-kick or two. He's a genuine all-rounder, not 'all-rounder' the way people use it as a backhanded compliment meaning 'no real ability.'
 
Attila said:
I doubt it. I've never met anyone who supports rival players and is happy when they are scoring.
Click to expand...
It's the company we keep then. I'm a fan of football first and a fan of Manchester United second. A lot of the people I mingle with all have a player or three in rival clubs they appreciate and enjoy watching in top form.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
I don't think it's weird to enjoy watching players that don't necessarily play for your own club. Everyone has their preferences. Personally I'd prefer all the big teams in the league to be firing on all cylinders with us leading the pack, but that's just me. I don't think you need to enjoy seeing rivals and their players falter- that's far more strange.
Click to expand...
If a player I like scores for another club the very most I can feel is 'meh.' It's slightly more if an ex-United player scores, it might be 'ah.'
 
NinjaFletch said:
fecking hell :lol:

If you need someone to tell you that teams tend to do better when their players play well for them then whats the point?
Click to expand...

Mate you're making it sound like because I want Willian to do well that automatically means I want Chelsea to do well, I'm just proving a counter example to tell you that's not the case.

Attila said:
Yes but in reality his goals are having an impact on their results.
Click to expand...

Like @ADJUDICATOR said I'd like us to win on us being the best team in a league where there are lots of brilliant teams, not a league with a lot of average teams, which at this point in time.

EDIT: And the last 4 games Willian has scored in they have WDL and currently D (drawing), so like I said it is possible for a player to play well but the team not too.
 
Sigma said:
EDIT: And the last 4 games Willian has scored in they have WDL and currently D (drawing), so like I said it is possible for a player to play well but the team not too.
Click to expand...
Without his goals it would be LLL
 
Sigma said:
Football is rapidly changing game, many fans support players just as much as clubs. I don't see what's wrong with it, especially if you have a legit reason like me. I'm a die hard united fan, watch all the games - even preseason, but when a player I like scores, no matter who for of course I'm happy, especially as the team he's scoring for, atm doesn't have a hope in hell of finishing ahead of us.
Click to expand...

Thats absolutely strange
 
Sigma said:
2 points out of 9 instead of 0, still not great is it?
Click to expand...
I just find it strange. There's some people on here who wan't Falcao to score 20 goals this season because he's a 'great guy'. When did people start supporting players over their own football team.

If Chelsea were playing well and Willian was regularly scoring throughout the season would you still be supporting him when it's clearly bad for the team you support?
 
Attila said:
I just find it strange. There's some people on here who wan't Falcao to score 20 goals this season because he's a 'great guy'. When did people start supporting players over their own football team.

If Chelsea were playing well and Willian was regularly scoring throughout the season would you still be supporting him when it's clearly bad for the team you support?
Click to expand...

Club's shouldn't be worrying about other teams, we should just be focusing on ourselves, and atm, should strive to stay out front and let no one catch us. Hypothetically, If your scenario comes to fruition what's to stop us going on and winning every game?

Quite a lot of the fans on here have posted saying they want Barca to go through the group stages of the champions league yet that will probably reduce our chances of winning it, how isn't that the same as my opinion?
 
Sigma said:
Club's shouldn't be worrying about other teams, we should just be focusing on ourselves, and atm, should strive to stay out front and let no one catch us. Hypothetically, If your scenario comes to fruition what's to stop us going on and winning every game?
Click to expand...

Why is this so hard for you?

The better Chelsea do, the less likely it is we do well.

The better Willian plays, the more likely it is Chelsea do well.

Ergo, Willian doing well is directly harmful to United.

Ergo, wanting Willian to do well as a United fan is weird.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Why is this so hard for you?

The better Chelsea do, the less likely it is we do well.

The better Willian plays, the more likely it is Chelsea do well.

Ergo, Willian doing well is directly harmful to United.

Ergo, wanting Willian to do well as a United fan is weird.
Click to expand...

If you've read my previous case I've proved that isn't the case but w/e. Every fan has a different view of different things? Have you ever bet on a rival winning? If you have then how is that any different to this? You want a team to win/player to do well for your gain, whether that be money or whether it be happiness.

And oh look, Willian has played well but Chelsea are losing again, again proving my point.

I was a fan of him all the way back when he was at Shakhtar, why should I not be a fan of his anymore just because he moved team?
 
VorZakone said:
I expected so much more attacking flair from him though, he's hardly doing what he did at Shakhtar. Maybe if he was under Wenger he could have really flourished in goals/assists.
Click to expand...
His best goal scoring season for Shakhtar was 5 goals in the league. He was never this attacking force that people make him out to be.
 
He isn't much better than Ashley Young. Fast, hard worker, defensively solid, can whip in decent crosses, free kicks I'm not sure before this season Willian was so good at it. Young compensates that with his versatility anyway. Plus he can whip in good FKs. Willian is considered better only because he plays for a rival.
 
Brightonian said:
I agree Mata was and is better, but perhaps not by as much as people think. When you take into account pace, strength, work-rate, stamina, defensive ability and versatility - all of which go in Willian's favour - they're not so far apart. It's easy to prefer Mata because he's absurdly skilful. He suits us much better, but I think overall Mourinho was probably right to let him go in favour of bringing in someone like Willian. He suits them.
Click to expand...

I think Mata's work rate is a little underrated. He works hard for us, he makes a lot of intelligent runs and often drifts around the pitch to find space. This leaves him out of position but he always works hard to get back where he should be, the problem is he's so lightweight and usually looks leggy when he gets back and he dives in desperately when he has no chance of getting the ball.

The difference is that Willian has more stamina and a great deal more pace, so he isn't as susceptible to counter attacks. For what it's worth, I like Willian too, he gives Chelsea a lot of energy and he's technically a lot better than he is given credit for. He gives them balance and width when Hazard cuts infield, he just unfortunately goes missing in games sometimes, often because Chelsea focus their play through Hazard.
 
prath92 said:
He isn't much better than Ashley Young. Fast, hard worker, defensively solid, can whip in decent crosses, free kicks I'm not sure before this season Willian was so good at it. Young compensates that with his versatility anyway. Plus he can whip in good FKs. Willian is considered better only because he plays for a rival.
Click to expand...
Oh come on, really?. He is considered better because he is.
 
prath92 said:
He isn't much better than Ashley Young.
Click to expand...

Ashley Young is a better player. Not sure how him fluking a couple of freekicks changes that. Ashley Young has been more productive in a harder league than Willian. In fact, Young (universally derided for his lack of final ball) was more productive last season despite spending the half the season at LB.

If he wasn't Brazilian and signed for 30m he would be considered a joke.
 
Akash said:
Ashley Young is a better player. Not sure how him fluking a couple of freekicks changes that. Ashley Young has been more productive in a harder league than Willian. In fact, Young (universally derided for his lack of final ball) was more productive last season despite spending the half the season at LB.

If he wasn't Brazilian and signed for 30m he would be considered a joke.
Click to expand...

Willian is far better. Actually it's a credit to him that he's worth 30 million and people aren't mentioning his price more often in these types of arguments. If he was bought for less, then he would be considered an even better player than he is now.
 
Akash said:
Ashley Young is a better player. Not sure how him fluking a couple of freekicks changes that. Ashley Young has been more productive in a harder league than Willian. In fact, Young (universally derided for his lack of final ball) was more productive last season despite spending the half the season at LB.

If he wasn't Brazilian and signed for 30m he would be considered a joke.
Click to expand...

Agree with all that.
 
Akash said:
lol no.

Complete garbage.
Click to expand...

Willian is faster, better passer, better free kick taker, works harder, more consistent, better dribbler, better crosser, better at linking up play, better at holding the ball.

How is Young better?
 
Sigma said:
Willian is faster, better passer, better free kick taker, works harder, more consistent, better dribbler, better crosser, better at linking up play, better at holding the ball.

How is Young better?
Click to expand...

Willian is not faster, is a shit crosser, doesn't work harder than Young, definitely not more consistent (unless it's being consistently impotent). He maybe a better dribbler although most of his dribbling is sideways.

Young has been more productive than WIllian for most of his career, won a league title with United, made the EPL team of the season at Villa. How is Willian far better?
 
Sigma said:
Willian is faster, better passer, better free kick taker, works harder, more consistent, better dribbler, better crosser, better at linking up play, better at holding the ball.

How is Young better?
Click to expand...

He's better because all that lot you just came out with is utter bollocks.
 
Akash said:
Willian is not faster, is a shit crosser, doesn't work harder than Young, definitely not more consistent (unless it's being consistently impotent). He maybe a better dribbler although most of his dribbling is sideways.

Young has been more productive than WIllian for most of his career, won a league title with United, made the EPL team of the season at Villa. How is Willian far better?
Click to expand...

...aka Las Cortinas said:
He's better because all that lot you just came out with is utter bollocks.
Click to expand...

I watch Chelsea and Manchester United a lot, I assure you I'm not just saying it for the sake of my argument.

Young wasn't even that amazing last season, he was just far better than he has always been for us thus giving the impression that he was brilliant. He did improve but his quality last season should be a given for a player playing for Manchester United.
 
Sigma said:
I watch Chelsea and Manchester United a lot, I assure you I'm not just saying it for the sake of my argument.

Young wasn't even that amazing last season, he was just far better than he has always been for us thus giving the impression that he was brilliant. He did improve but his quality last season should be a given for a player playing for Manchester United.
Click to expand...

You might watch them a lot but that still doesn't mean you know what you are talking about, and I'm sure I remember you saying you were about 16, so I'm going to assume you don't. ;)

Young was very good last season and he has been good this season when given the chance. Not a chance I'd have Willian over him.
 
...aka Las Cortinas said:
You might watch them a lot but that still doesn't mean you know what you are talking about, and I'm sure I remember you saying you were about 16, so I'm going to assume you don't. ;)

Young was very good last season and he has been good this season when given the chance. Not a chance I'd have Willian over him.
Click to expand...

Never judge a guy by his age (17) :).
 
Stack said:
Oh come on, really?. He is considered better because he is.
Click to expand...

He isn't all that better. Ashley Young is actually a very talented winger. He had maybe a rough couple of years at United(one under Moyes) but he is talented. Willian is at best as good as him but I wouldn't take him over Young in all honesty as @Akshay and @...aka Las Cortinas say

Edit- sorry @Akash :p
 
Last edited:
prath92 said:
He isn't all that better. Ashley Young is actually a very talented winger. He had maybe a rough couple of years at United(one under Moyes) but he is talented. Willian is at best as good as him but I wouldn't take him over Young in all honesty as @Akshay and @...aka Las Cortinas say
Click to expand...

Willian is clearly better than Ashley Young!
 
Lawman said:
Willian is clearly better than Ashley Young!
Click to expand...

He isn't better. He isn't technically brilliant like mata was. However mourinho prefers him even over Oscar because he is a workhorse and would in effect be another body in defence when needed and on the counter he can give them pace. Young can play in literally any position on the wings competently. Does literally all the things that Willian does. He does it as good as Willian too

Akash said:
Akash ffs
Click to expand...

Oops sorry. Genuine mistake as I'm On phone.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
I think Mata's work rate is a little underrated. He works hard for us, he makes a lot of intelligent runs and often drifts around the pitch to find space. This leaves him out of position but he always works hard to get back where he should be, the problem is he's so lightweight and usually looks leggy when he gets back and he dives in desperately when he has no chance of getting the ball.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's fair, I didn't really mean work-rate now I think about it. He does work very hard, but as you say he's pretty defensively ineffective nonetheless.

Of course, it doesn't matter because he's an actual fecking wizard.

 
VorZakone said:
I expected so much more attacking flair from him though, he's hardly doing what he did at Shakhtar. Maybe if he was under Wenger he could have really flourished in goals/assists.
Click to expand...

[Pete mode on]

Mourinho turned him into a working horse.

[Pete mode off]
 
What now Ashley Young is better than Willian? :lol:

Only on the Cafe!

Very good player and always criminally underrated because of his role. He meant todays free kick as is obvious by the way he took it, but did not mean last Saturdays.
 
I actually agree with Rob.

I can't believe some people think that Young is far better player than Willian. I can understand if someone favours Young, but to think that he is clearly better player than Willian is seriously laughable, IMO.

Young really had one good season for United, after which we brought the young kid to play instead of him all the time which suggest that he wasn't even that good as some thought.
 
Basically Willian is just underrated on here, it seems.

And I don't buy this 'he meant it/he didn't mean it' bullshit with the free kicks. Clearly, he's currently got the knack of the free-kick which either gets a touch and goes in or doesn't and goes in. If you want to produce the maximum number of goals, that's the one to go for, not the Hollywood into the top corner.
 
Willian is fantastic and at least a class above Young. But no wonder people dont rate a player that is sacrificing his own game for the sake of the team in the time where everyone is obsessed with statistic and end product.
 
you guys are overrating mata a bit, this is the first season i recall where his team is fighting at the top.. i don't know if its his fault but all his former teams he played became irrelevant in league title contention
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Willian is fantastic and at least a class above Young. But no wonder people dont rate a player that is sacrificing his own game for the sake of the team in the time where everyone is obsessed with statistic and end product.
Click to expand...

Class above Young? Absolutely not. Before he came to United, Ashley Young was twice in the PL team of the year, and was the best Young player of the year once. He wasn't a nobody winger that just fluked into United team.

I have seen Willian play and there's nothing to suggest that he is superior to Young. People on here see Young as some washed up winger when in reality all he had is one bad season in 12-13(everyone was bad under Moyes). In contrast they consider Willian underrated as he plays for Chelsea and mourinho.

As for sacrificing himself, Young has been better than Willian at that too having played as a full back and wing back quite often.
 
Sigma said:
Willian is faster, better passer, better free kick taker, works harder, more consistent, better dribbler, better crosser, better at linking up play, better at holding the ball.

How is Young better?
Click to expand...
Akash said:
Willian is not faster, is a shit crosser, doesn't work harder than Young, definitely not more consistent (unless it's being consistently impotent). He maybe a better dribbler although most of his dribbling is sideways.

Young has been more productive than WIllian for most of his career, won a league title with United, made the EPL team of the season at Villa. How is Willian far better?
Click to expand...

Amazing :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.