[711]

Strange discussions going on. Arsenal obviously eased off in the second half, there were times when half of them were just walking. And as our midfielders seemed allergic to running in front of the ball, again, they didn't really need to do much else.

 

[fan1996]

This game showed that we need to make either Bastian or Smalling as captain. Rooney doesn't have enough integrity to scream at his team-mates anymore. Since LVG always sat his ass on the technical bench all the time, we need a proper captain on the field who can push the rest to focus and raise their game more in a hard match like this one.

 

[David Court]

It's a bit of both but that's why managers are being paid for, to find solutions to these type of problems. In terms of playing style, i think it's more about LvG not being able to figure out a way to deal with the particularities of the English game with this set of players. After the defeat at Leicester last season, he keeps mentioning how "difficult" the PL is. I don't believe that's a coincidence simply because Leicester are one of the PL clubs that epitomizes the "beautiful anarchy" of English football, the gang-ho style full of physicality, aggressiveness and pace.

He's yet to find a remedy for that and the worst part of it is that he seems caught between two minds. On one hand, he wants to implement his possession based tactics that aim to create spaces between the opposition lines with an active pressing game that aims to hit the opponents in their transition. On the other hand, he doesn't want to lose control of a game for 20-25 minutes and get dragged into a high tempo game that may end up with his high defensive line being torn apart.

As a result, we have a pressing game but it's not an "active" one. We don't press to steal the ball high on the pitch and create chances, we press just to stall our opponents' counter attacks in order to get enough men behind the ball in order to defend properly. We also play our possession football but the primary target is to keep the tempo of the game under our control and not commit players forward in dangerous areas.

Last season he tried to deal with that by constantly changing formations, this season he's settled with his version of 4-2-3-1 and he's decided to make minor tactical changes between games. We started the season by pressing considerably high but after the defeat in Holland LvG decided to play a bit deeper. We had a run of good results and it seemed like a good time time to try the high pressing once again. It was disastrous and the sad thing is that what we desperately needed to do in the opening 30 minutes yesterday is the same thing most United fans are moaning about... slow things down and destroy Arenal's rhythm.

I'm not suggesting that it's all van Gaal's fault. It's clear as daylight that we don't have enough quality up front, we rely on two 20 year olds to win us games when City have KdB, Silva, Sterling and Aguero. We also have lots of problems at defending when our pressing isn't working. But at some point LvG has to ask himself if maybe , just maybe, this is as good as it gets when this set of players and his philosophy are combined or maybe he should try something else.

A good post and reinforces my view that LVG knows he is in transition and needs to clear out the Augean stables first to create the kind of team you expect at United. He's made a good start but it takes time. I'd be inclined to think that Rooney is not part of that plan and his equivocal response on that yesterday when questioned would it seems strengthen that view.

It's funny but it was only some years ago that it was United ripping teams apart early on through pace from the wings. I think if LVG is to be successful then in the next 3 years he needs to recreate that United way.

That's what you'd expect from a club that boasted the Busby babes, Charlton, Law, Best, Etc.

For the moment finishing top 4 and picking up a domestic cup would appear the most likely outcome

 

[Nickosaur]

I keep hoping this was just a rare tactical feckup by Van Gaal, he'll see what went wrong and why, and it won't happen again.

What I'm more concerned about are the performances of Depay and Rooney, and how poorly our full backs did yesterday. Also...our squad really doesn't seem big enough to handle the rigours of more than one game a week.

 

[The Purist]

As an Arsenal fan, there's not a lot I can say about the game without it sounding like gloating. I was sat in the Clock End right behind the goal which Arsenal shot into 1st half.. after we went to 3-0.. the last 20 minutes of that half seemed to go past so slowly because it was hard to see exactly how close United were to our net from my view - all I could see was that we were giving you a lot of space and time in the midfield (now that I've watched the full game on TV I can say that was clearly intentional with our tactical set up and United didn't really look dangerous except for when Martial created space for himself against Mertesacker but our £10m outlay on Cech proved the bargain that it was when he saved us from a potentially nervy 2nd half). I don't think Ospina or Szczesny would have saved that and then it would have given you guys all the momentum over half time.

I think Alexis Sanchez was magic yesterday and on his day, he's up there with Aguero as the best player in the league. Ozil is a top class footballer who is generally central to what we do right. Walcott epitomised the Arsenal performance - composure and desire. Our players who many people don't take heed off but who are very impressive (the likes of Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin) all were completely solid and all in, it was fairly comfortable and could/should have been more.

As for United, I think Schneiderlin would have helped but not massively.. most of our luck came from dragging your midfield into ours and then switching to the wings where Depay and Mata failed to cover their full backs adequately. Depay was terrible on both ends of the pitch for me.. Darmian didn't look his usual self. On a positive note for you guys, Martial is an absolute livewire and he consistently looks dangerous when the ball is in his feet.. crazy that he's only 19. I was really impressed with him and that was probably his poorest game so far for United, too.

 

[Tonjo]

What I observed yesterday during the second half was that :
1) A. Sanchez do not like to face Valencia who is as quick as him.
2) When Felliani came on, the Arsenal mid-field started to loose control.
This showed that the Arsenal team do not like to face tough and rough opposition player.
I hope LVG take note and play some of these players in the home game against them.
Also, men-mark Sanchez with Darmian and they will be shut-off.
This was what Alex Ferguson did during one of the away game against them playing both the brothers Rafael and Fabio and using one of them in mid-field to do the running and men-marking with success.

 

[OJKernow]

Really surprised by the naivety and poor in-game management that we showed yesterday.

Arsenal came flying out the traps and caught us flat footed but our midfield in that first 20 minutes didn't offer any protection to the back 4 who were clearly overwhelmed and struggling with the pace and directness of the Arsenal attack (which was superb on the day)

I think G Nev touched on it but after that first goal went in we really should have shut up shop for 15-20 minutes to break up play and try and get a hold of the game, instead we kept committing bodies from midfield forward into attacking space, therefore leaving lots of room between the lines for the Arsenal forwards to operate in. Away from home against a top 4 side, that was suicide.

Despite a few nice moments from Martial it was also really difficult to see where any goal threat would come from, even with the improved possession and territorial advantage in the last 60 or so minutes.

Putting it down to a bad day at the office and the kick up the ass that we might need, as has been mentioned we're actually in not a bad position overall for this stage of the season, just a shame that we came up seriously short in our first real test.

International break coming at a good time to regroup and hopefully give some players some much needed rest.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

What I observed yesterday during the second half was that :
1) A. Sanchez do not like to face Valencia who is as quick as him.
2) When Felliani came on, the Arsenal mid-field started to loose control.
This showed that the Arsenal team do not like to face tough and rough opposition player.
I hope LVG take note and play some of these players in the home game against them.
Also, men-mark Sanchez with Darmian and they will be shut-off.
This was what Alex Ferguson did during one of the away game against them playing both the brothers Rafael and Fabio and using one of them in mid-field to do the running and men-marking with success.

Your 2nd assessment isn't quite true. Arsenal were already 3 goals up and didn't really need to keep possession of the ball in the 2nd half, hence the possession stats at the end of the game. They also moved Ramsey inside (cause he's a tireless B2B mid) to keep running with Fellaini. Even though Fellaini was on the pitch his effectiveness was neutralized by Ramsey moving in and Cazorla moving out. Look at the 2nd half again and you'd see that despite Utd being in possession, Arsenal still had full control of the midfield.

 

[NJM78]

One of three defeats I had already predicted for this month in the league so not surprised by result just disappointed with the manner of it.
Our first real test this season against a quick (pace and passing) team came against Swansea. We lost. The next was Southampton who should have been out of sight in the first 30 minutes but we managed to turn it around with some fortune and then end up worthy winners. The latest Arsenal could have scored 6 or 7 easily before half time!
I can see Everton who really love to play us winning quite comfortably again in our next match and depending on which City turn up and if Aguero is fit I can see us losing that one more than us winning it. add travelling to Russia before hand.
I just do not think we have played very good all season. Continuing to carry Rooney each game and play Blind at CB needs to stop. Get Blind at LB now that Jones is fit. Play Young instead of the hit or huge miss Depay and bring Herrera in for Rooney. Also Schneiderlin I agree with most pundits has not looked as composed as previous seasons but for me is still our most important midfielder against top opposition, it was like Christmas for Arsenal against that midfield. My dead nans could have outpaced and out muscled BFS and Carrick. Second half they let us have the ball and we still created feck all to be fair.
Yes we have improved on last year but not greatly in my eyes and I will stick with my pre season prediction of us finishing 4th at best. Hope I'm wrong but the balance and squad depth is way too thin for me and this is probably the slowest United I have witnessed in 30 years. As soon as October is out of the way the better for me.

 

[David Court]

we played with zero agression first half. We also have to get rid of our notoriously slow starts

What's all this stuff about aggression? A word i can not remember being used in any sensible analysis of any game. LVG used it probably wrongly given his less than fluent grasp of English and now people come out with it.

As for slow starts? What are you on about? Man Utd were famous for ripping through teams from the off.

Why not give credit where credit is due? Arsenal were impressive doing to you what you used to do to them?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What's all this stuff about aggression? A word i can not remember being used in any sensible analysis of any game. LVG used it probably wrongly given his less than fluent grasp of English and now people come out with it.

As for slow starts? What are you on about? Man Utd were famous for ripping through teams from the off.

Why not give credit where credit is due? Arsenal were impressive doing to you what you used to do to them?

That's the operative word and what he is getting at. Yes we used to rip teams apart, now it is like we bore them into submission.

 

[sunama]

This game showed that we need to make either Bastian or Smalling as captain. Rooney doesn't have enough integrity to scream at his team-mates anymore. Since LVG always sat his ass on the technical bench all the time, we need a proper captain on the field who can push the rest to focus and raise their game more in a hard match like this one.

Integrity? I don't think Rooney's integrity has ever been questioned.
I do agree though, we need a talismanic player, which Rooney isn't.
The 29 year old Rooney really is a nice guy and in a game which requires us to go to war, we need a cnut - a bstard.
I think Bastian is the ideal candidate.

And lets not kid ourselves, the 3 goals they scored against us, were not Rooney's fault.
The fact that we didn't score - Rooney should take responsibility for that. He is the captain. He is a centre forward. He needs to lead by example.

 

[sunama]

That's the operative word and what he is getting at. Yes we used to rip teams apart, now it is like we bore them into submission.

Its not quite "bore them" into submission.

What we do is maintain possession and we tire them out by passing the ball around and letting them chase the ball.
As time wears on, concentration and physical tiredness set in and then we pounce.

I do agree though, its boring to watch and winning the possession stat, while losing the game is of no consequence. We need to focus more on scoring a goal, rather than holding possession for the sake of it.

 

[nick2004]

We allowed 3 goals in the first 20 minutes against a top team, and there are people here who blame... Rooney! Isn't it strange?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We allowed 3 goals in the first 20 minutes against a top team, and there are people here who blame... Rooney! Isn't it strange?

They aren't blaming Rooney for that, they are blaming him for the lack of fight in the team and lack of goal scoring from him and the rest yesterday. LvG has had a lot of flak as well.

 

[mu77]

We allowed 3 goals in the first 20 minutes against a top team, and there are people here who blame... Rooney! Isn't it strange?

FFS the blame lies at his feet. those things at the end of his ankles that keep giving the ball away. but 2 goals after 7 mins is not rooney's fault. he's just shit.

 

[NK86]

The lack of pressing is what has disappointed me the most. And it was not just yesterday but generally we have not pressed from the front. Rooney and Depay and Mata generally stay back to maintain shape and hardly try to close down the CBs when the GK has the ball.

Compare that to what Arsenal did. They immediately had players on our CB and Carrick/BFS as soon as DDG had the ball. This resulted in us going long regularly and losing control of the midfield.

 

[Fully Fledged]

As an Arsenal fan, there's not a lot I can say about the game without it sounding like gloating. I was sat in the Clock End right behind the goal which Arsenal shot into 1st half.. after we went to 3-0.. the last 20 minutes of that half seemed to go past so slowly because it was hard to see exactly how close United were to our net from my view - all I could see was that we were giving you a lot of space and time in the midfield (now that I've watched the full game on TV I can say that was clearly intentional with our tactical set up and United didn't really look dangerous except for when Martial created space for himself against Mertesacker but our £10m outlay on Cech proved the bargain that it was when he saved us from a potentially nervy 2nd half). I don't think Ospina or Szczesny would have saved that and then it would have given you guys all the momentum over half time.

I think Alexis Sanchez was magic yesterday and on his day, he's up there with Aguero as the best player in the league. Ozil is a top class footballer who is generally central to what we do right. Walcott epitomised the Arsenal performance - composure and desire. Our players who many people don't take heed off but who are very impressive (the likes of Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin) all were completely solid and all in, it was fairly comfortable and could/should have been more.

As for United, I think Schneiderlin would have helped but not massively.. most of our luck came from dragging your midfield into ours and then switching to the wings where Depay and Mata failed to cover their full backs adequately. Depay was terrible on both ends of the pitch for me.. Darmian didn't look his usual self. On a positive note for you guys, Martial is an absolute livewire and he consistently looks dangerous when the ball is in his feet.. crazy that he's only 19. I was really impressed with him and that was probably his poorest game so far for United, too.

Yeah I think the main thing yesterday was that your main players hit their straps from the offset of the game and it was beyond us before we got going. People need to realise that Arsenal are one of the best teams in the country it is no disgrace being beaten by them.

 

[Alex Styles]

We need to get used to losing against arsenal, unless we become so good at our game that we can beat them at their own game too. Our team philosophy and tactics is possession based. Fergie know how to beat arsenal and it was by not trying to beat them at their own game but by allowing them the possession, breaking up play and hitting them on the counter.

 

[buckooo1978]

We need to get used to losing against arsenal, unless we become so good at our game that we can beat them at their own game too. Our team philosophy and tactics is possession based. Fergie know how to beat arsenal and it was by not trying to beat them at their own game but by allowing them the possession, breaking up play and hitting them on the counter.

which surprised me most about Van Gaal's approach given that's how we played last season - Arsenal were fantastic then as well but their poor finishing, our strong defending and ruthlessness on the break won it

maybe Van Gaal underrated Arsenal while over rating us

 

[David Court]

which surprised me most about Van Gaal's approach given that's how we played last season - Arsenal were fantastic then as well but their poor finishing, our strong defending and ruthlessness on the break won it

maybe Van Gaal underrated Arsenal while over rating us

Well, there's an angle

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

As an Arsenal fan, there's not a lot I can say about the game without it sounding like gloating. I was sat in the Clock End right behind the goal which Arsenal shot into 1st half.. after we went to 3-0.. the last 20 minutes of that half seemed to go past so slowly because it was hard to see exactly how close United were to our net from my view - all I could see was that we were giving you a lot of space and time in the midfield (now that I've watched the full game on TV I can say that was clearly intentional with our tactical set up and United didn't really look dangerous except for when Martial created space for himself against Mertesacker but our £10m outlay on Cech proved the bargain that it was when he saved us from a potentially nervy 2nd half). I don't think Ospina or Szczesny would have saved that and then it would have given you guys all the momentum over half time.

I think Alexis Sanchez was magic yesterday and on his day, he's up there with Aguero as the best player in the league. Ozil is a top class footballer who is generally central to what we do right. Walcott epitomised the Arsenal performance - composure and desire. Our players who many people don't take heed off but who are very impressive (the likes of Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin) all were completely solid and all in, it was fairly comfortable and could/should have been more.

As for United, I think Schneiderlin would have helped but not massively.. most of our luck came from dragging your midfield into ours and then switching to the wings where Depay and Mata failed to cover their full backs adequately. Depay was terrible on both ends of the pitch for me.. Darmian didn't look his usual self. On a positive note for you guys, Martial is an absolute livewire and he consistently looks dangerous when the ball is in his feet.. crazy that he's only 19. I was really impressed with him and that was probably his poorest game so far for United, too.

Spot on I'd say.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Losing to Arsenal, especially in that fashion, is embarrassing. They are not a big game side, but we made them look like Bayern. And what they did was nothing we didn't already know could happen if you give them time and space and cede the midfield (effectively what the likes of Leicester and Newcastle do in games like these). It was a solid dependable 10 year game plan, which has served us so well, down the toilet. Hopefully lesson learnt for the manager and a kick up the arse (or a drop to the bench) for a few heads.

 

[Red Dreams]

Depay and Mata do not cover for the full backs. Sanchez should have been pressed back.....but Mata could never have done it anyway.

Young can do this...but he was played at LB..crazy. Rooney on the right can do this too. Its not Arsenal were magic. We did not do our simple jobs. Van Gaal suprisingly showed how naive he can be at times.

 

[NextSeason]

Absolutely mental that Rooney is taking more slack than Carrick who was our worst player on the pitch.

Just says it all about this place - personal agendas over sense.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

Absolutely mental that Rooney is taking more slack than Carrick who was our worst player on the pitch.

Just says it all about this place - personal agendas over sense.

Carrick is 34 coming of a season where he was our 2nd best player, Rooney is 29 coming of a season where he was all a bit meh.

Two very different cases.

Also, many is advocating Carrick to move on or retire next summer after his performance, not sure what could be worse.

 

[Manny]

Absolutely mental that Rooney is taking more slack than Carrick who was our worst player on the pitch.

Just says it all about this place - personal agendas over sense.

Carrick was trying to cover the massive spaces left by Schweini in midfield because Rooney couldn't press Cazorla or provide an attacking threat and give Cazorla and Coquelin something to think about.

 

[NextSeason]

Carrick is 34 coming of a season where he was our 2nd best player, Rooney is 29 coming of a season where he was all a bit meh.

Two very different cases.

Also, many is advocating Carrick to move on or retire next summer after his performance, not sure what could be worse.

Age and last season's performances doesn't hide the fact that Carrick was more to blame than Rooney yesterday.

Carrick was trying to cover the massive spaces left by Schweini in midfield because Rooney couldn't press Cazorla or provide an attacking threat and give Cazorla and Coquelin something to think about.

Ah right yes, Rooney was the source of all the problems.

 

[nick2004]

Carrick is 34 coming of a season where he was our 2nd best player, Rooney is 29 coming of a season where he was all a bit meh.

Two very different cases.

Also, many is advocating Carrick to move on or retire next summer after his performance, not sure what could be worse.

This thread is called "post match vs arsenal". Just saying...

 

[Red Dreams]

Rooney is obviously devoid of confidence atm. But he still has aggression. To use him on either wing would not just be useful to us but also ultimately may well bring back the confidence he is lacking.

Our problem will not be solved by dropping Rooney. The problem is how poorly van Gaal is using his squad. We won over lesser teams. But when playing against a proper football playing side like Arsenal we need to clatter them. Arsenal rattle like an old Ford when you get at them. Moyes did it playing Jones in the middle. They only had shots when he was forced to play in defence.

Schniderlin should have played for Carrick or Basti. And Blind as LB and Young instead of Memphis would have been tough for them to handle. Rememeber Blind and Young combined very well when played. Memphis will get better...but he is nowhere near his full potential. And Mata does not track back. Fergie was not afraid to change players that suit teh situation. He should have been moved to the middle. Unfortunately Herrera was injured. He would have been perfect for this match.

 

[goin4glory]

Absolutely mental that Rooney is taking more slack than Carrick who was our worst player on the pitch.

Just says it all about this place - personal agendas over sense.

Pressing starts from the front, Rooney never once got close to Cazorla and it's not the first time he's been a complete disaster when up again a very talented deep lying playmaker. Schweinsteiger was playing higher up the pitch than him trying to do his job (and Memphis' to some degree). It's bad enough he's were most of our attacks go to die but when he's become a liability defensively it's time to be dropped.

There's enough "Rooney is shit get him sold" comments to go around (which I agree with) but let's take an honest look at his history and performances. Vs Italy you could see Joe Hart screaming at him to pick up Pirlo who ended up dominating the game and Italy won, vs Barca in the Champions League final SAF gave him a bollocking on the sideline because he was non existent in stopping Busquets then when we got drawn against Real Madrid + Xabi Alonso he was dropped from the side al together in favour of Welbeck specifically because he was trusted to do a job on him.

Yesterday's performance shouldn't really be any surprise. There's a list of terrible narratives that get thrown around by his mates in the press like "the last street footballer" to justify the fact he really just does whatever he wants and has a very low tactical IQ. If you had a poll on the caf pre KO as to who Rooney should be picking up to stop Arsenal building attacks who would you pick Cazorla or Coq? It's not difficult but it's a perfect example of how poorly he understands the 10 role.

Going forward I'd like to see him dropped and use a 4-3-3 with Schneiderlin holding and Herrera/Schweinsteiger ahead of him. Schneiderlin has loads of experience under Pochettino/Koeman of playing in a pressing side as does Ander with Bielsa, Schweinsteiger has more experience of playing in that type of side than anyone else in the squad. Playing with 1 holding CM in a 4-3-3 means you have 2 MF's (in this example Herrera/Schweinsteiger) higher up the pitch and in a better position to press than in a 4-2-3-1 with 2 holders. Playing 2 holders with Rooney in the 10 expected to lead the charge is a disaster and will be exposed vs the better sides as it was yesterday. When we had our great run at the end of last season it was playing with 1 holder (Carrick) and 2 CM ahead of him (Ander,Fellaini) so I see no reason why we couldn't revert to it other than hurting Rooney's feelings.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

This thread is called "post match vs arsenal". Just saying...

True, but the Rooney criticism doesn't stem from this match only, it has been Building up for a long time.

 

[Manny]

Ah right yes, Rooney was the source of all the problems.

I told you how his performance was an issue. Why don't you have a go at explaining why Carrick was worse. And "because he's old" won't cut it.

 

[Tincanalley]

United are stepping up this year from a lazy season of involvement in (effectively) just one competition to running the gauntlet of five, including CL and Prem. I won't trundle on too much about my theory of Atlantean and Mediterrannean footie, but I did ask at the end of the Arsenal game, has LVG a major flaw in his armoury, that of the energy demanded to play a kind of hybrid of the two, with a possession-based high pressing, high energy, choke? (I wrote this before I read some similar points being made by @TheRedDevil'sAdvocate). This was bound to be an uneven gear change but is the squad equipped, long term, for these demands?

The English set up, lacking a winter break, makes this approach even more rigorous, and it is here that the Caftards who have been bemoaning a lack of squad depth may be shown to be right. As regards the result, it is not the response of the players (which was decent in the second half) but the puzzlement of the manager which concerns me more. I would agree with basically everyone in here who didn't want Carrick and Bastian in at the same time; to LVG it may be his dream midfield, but I think they are best alternated; its not even a question of speed or youth, but their style is too similar, and Schneiderlin is a better foil for both with his running, aggression and ball-winning skills.

All in all not too concerned about this loss except regarding our ability to last the pace into December. In a positive sense, you don't sharpen without being tempered and the intensity of that Arsenal opening 20 minutes show us what we should be aiming for. They won't be able to keep that up either, and it was definitely a bit of game-raising by them. They will trip up again. I don't even think that Arsenal are Kryptonite to the LVG style as @berbatrick says in another thread (great line though). I was at last years home fixture against them, and we could easily have won that. I had this down as a draw, but they played brilliantly and losing away to them is no disgrace. The second half showed us figuring out how to play them, we should have scored at least once. It was gutsy and deserves praise rather than puzzlement. Hopefully when the manager reflects he may blame himself (and the club planners) more than the players, if anyone is to be blamed. The LVG project has another hiccup to puzzle over, and I do think that you need a stronger squad to play like this, right now we have the makings of a first team, but we need effectively two teams. I suspect that if the Glazers want silverware they will be going to the shop for more cogs, to make the whole thing purr.

Did LVG's fatigue specialist feck up? Maybe the true identity of the fatigue specialist is Giggs, which would be a disaster; he is wired like the battery bunny.

 

[SoCross]

Maybe this will be our Leicester moment or the 6-1 City moment and LVG will go back to three in midfield instead of a support striker/#10 and really tighten things up. I wouldn't mind seeing Rooney on the left; thought he was decent by his recent standards.

 

[pierrethesnack]

As an Arsenal fan, there's not a lot I can say about the game without it sounding like gloating. I was sat in the Clock End right behind the goal which Arsenal shot into 1st half.. after we went to 3-0.. the last 20 minutes of that half seemed to go past so slowly because it was hard to see exactly how close United were to our net from my view - all I could see was that we were giving you a lot of space and time in the midfield (now that I've watched the full game on TV I can say that was clearly intentional with our tactical set up and United didn't really look dangerous except for when Martial created space for himself against Mertesacker but our £10m outlay on Cech proved the bargain that it was when he saved us from a potentially nervy 2nd half). I don't think Ospina or Szczesny would have saved that and then it would have given you guys all the momentum over half time.

I think Alexis Sanchez was magic yesterday and on his day, he's up there with Aguero as the best player in the league. Ozil is a top class footballer who is generally central to what we do right. Walcott epitomised the Arsenal performance - composure and desire. Our players who many people don't take heed off but who are very impressive (the likes of Monreal, Coquelin and Bellerin) all were completely solid and all in, it was fairly comfortable and could/should have been more.

As for United, I think Schneiderlin would have helped but not massively.. most of our luck came from dragging your midfield into ours and then switching to the wings where Depay and Mata failed to cover their full backs adequately. Depay was terrible on both ends of the pitch for me.. Darmian didn't look his usual self. On a positive note for you guys, Martial is an absolute livewire and he consistently looks dangerous when the ball is in his feet.. crazy that he's only 19. I was really impressed with him and that was probably his poorest game so far for United, too.

Think that's a pretty fair summary, tbh.

One more thing is that we for some reason seemed exhausted even before we got started. Every Arsenal player seemed to move at twice the pace of any United player, except Martial. It was like playing FIFA with someone on a speed hack.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

ne more thing is that we for some reason seemed exhausted even before we got started. Every Arsenal player seemed to move at twice the pace of any United player, except Martial. It was like playing FIFA with someone on a speed hack.

That's a really good observation and one that we all feared after the Wolfsburg game. Is it possible that our players are struggling so early in the season?

You make the point about Arsenal seeming to be twice the pace and I've noticed a lot of teams seem faster than us. I think that's down to our possession based methodical approach though? Arsenal and others pass the ball around with real zip whereas we don't. Our passes are slow and to feet to a stationary player. The player receiving the ball takes a few touches before passing it on. And yet when we've played our best stuff it's been because we've injected pace and purpose to our passing. So why aren't we doing that more in games?

 

[RedDevil@84]

It is not just the passes. Opposition players come at pace and rob the ball off our feet without any foul. We seldom do any such thing.
Off late I feel we hardly make a tackle. Maybe I am wrong. But I feel we keep looking at the feet rather than trying to get the ball out of the other player's feet.

 

[David Court]

That's a really good observation and one that we all feared after the Wolfsburg game. Is it possible that our players are struggling so early in the season?

You make the point about Arsenal seeming to be twice the pace and I've noticed a lot of teams seem faster than us. I think that's down to our possession based methodical approach though? Arsenal and others pass the ball around with real zip whereas we don't. Our passes are slow and to feet to a stationary player. The player receiving the ball takes a few touches before passing it on. And yet when we've played our best stuff it's been because we've injected pace and purpose to our passing. So why aren't we doing that more in games?

How much pace do you actually have?

You started with fat boys Schweinsteiger and Rooney with the former constantly being run past by Cazorla.

Carrick is old and slow and Darmian spent the first half looking at Sanchezs heels

As for Blind, he couldn't get anywhere near Walcott.

The reason you struggle against pace is twofold. A style of play that is ponderous and a lack of speedy players

Carrick and Schweinsteiger are too old and over the hill. They should never be paired again from the start.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

How much pace do you actually have?

Enough that we shouldn't be absolutely spanked by you! Carrick and Schweinsteiger starting together was a huge error.

We have pace with Valencia, Young, Darmian, Smalling, Memphis and Martial. And let's be honest I don't think Cazorla, Ozil and a couple of your lads are blessed with out and out pace? They just were in comparison with the players LVG selected.