[The Purist]

well of course you would agree with anyone who thinks you are the new Barcelona. Sanchez is your best player and he had no one pressing against him to keep him back. Basic fault by van Gaal. Mata is not a winger. We were desperate to get Bale. Swap Mata with Rooney and we would not have been overrun. I think United and Arsenal are about level as teams. The points prove it. But van Gaal is definitely not getting the best out of the team. But when teams get at you lot, you rattle. We did not do this.

The points prove nothing at this stage, unfortunately. I disagree that we are level as teams because when I look at your team I don't see a player of the ilk of an Alexis or Özil. On top of that, we have players like Walcott, Cazorla, Ramsey, Giroud and Chamberlain. Honestly I think Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney at the moment and he can't even make our starting 11.

I can't believe how confident United fans are about their chances this season but I say fair play, positivity amongst the fans can be a catalyst to do well as it can lead to a positive atmosphere around the club.

It's early in the season but I will say that I'd be very disappointed to finish below anyone that isn't Man City because I think they are the only team that could lay claim to potentially having a stronger squad than us. At the end of the day, you support your team and I support mine so it's probably inevitable that we'll disagree; I guess all we can do is wait to see how the season goes.

 

[bosnian_red]

The points prove nothing at this stage, unfortunately. I disagree that we are level as teams because when I look at your team I don't see a player of the ilk of an Alexis or Özil. On top of that, we have players like Walcott, Cazorla, Ramsey, Giroud and Chamberlain. Honestly I think Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney at the moment and he can't even make our starting 11.

I can't believe how confident United fans are about their chances this season but I say fair play, positivity amongst the fans can be a catalyst to do well as it can lead to a positive atmosphere around the club.

It's early in the season but I will say that I'd be very disappointed to finish below anyone that isn't Man City because I think they are the only team that could lay claim to potentially having a stronger squad than us. At the end of the day, you support your team and I support mine so it's probably inevitable that we'll disagree; I guess all we can do is wait to see how the season goes.

I agree that you have better attacking midfield options. But the problem with Arsenal is that it's all you have really. You use an attacking midfielder in central midfield (though he's done very well there), and Coquelin who I still don't rate particularly highly but he does the job I guess. And the defence isn't that great. Arsenal without a doubt has a better attacking set up then United, but United's defensive set up, IMO, is way better then Arsenal's. And we have better depth throughout (apart from the attacking midfielders). Also, when you say players of the ilk of Alexis, I agree (though Martial is quickly becoming that player for us and will be that without a doubt). But Ozil I don't agree with. He's a very good player don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't really trade him for Mata just like you probably wouldn't trade them the other way round. Nothing between them really. We'll see I guess, but I just think United's squad is more built to last a season and be consistent then Arsenals. Arsenal can and will vary between great performances and stupid losses as they have this season. It's what Arsenal always do. United is more consistent in how our games pan out, with very few outliers. The Arsenal game was one, but an outlier is all that that is IMO.

Though with Arsenal more then likely getting knocked out of the champions league, it should help you guys a lot in terms of challenging for the title. Unless of course you finish 3rd then it might feck you even more.

 

[Archie Leach]

There's no way United's defensive set up is "way better" than ours. We've conceded less goals than you every year since 11/12 and this season is no different as it stands.

 

[Libano]

Ozil is not the player that United need, even though he is absolutely unique in world football and spectacular on his day an in-form Mata will give us something similar. I'd much rather have Gundogan as a No. 10, he is far more consistent and physical and matches the United way of playing better. I don't see another player out there who combines defensive and offensive prowess as well as him.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

I don't see a player of the ilk of an Alexis or Özil. On top of that, we have players like Walcott, Cazorla, Ramsey, Giroud and Chamberlain. Honestly I think Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney at the moment and he can't even make our starting 11.

Painfully I have to accept that you speak absolute sense and you're right! None of our players right now can hold a candle to Sanchez. Martial would be the closest but not just yet. Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney right now with the potential to get better. I think our defences are fairly equal maybe giving you the slight edge. Mertesacker isn't quick but he's big and a born defender so has the edge on Blind. Our midfield is superior but with nobody ahead of them to make the most of our dominance its useless.

I can't believe how confident United fans are about their chances this season but I say fair play, positivity amongst the fans can be a catalyst to do well as it can lead to a positive atmosphere around the club.

There's far too many United fans right now watching with a skewed view. The way we've been playing should show that we are a long way from being ready to compete for the title! Anybody who thinks differently is doing a good job of convincing themselves.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Painfully I have to accept that you speak absolute sense and you're right! None of our players right now can hold a candle to Sanchez. Martial would be the closest but not just yet. Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney right now with the potential to get better. I think our defences are fairly equal maybe giving you the slight edge. Mertesacker isn't quick but he's big and a born defender so has the edge on Blind. Our midfield is superior but with nobody ahead of them to make the most of our dominance its useless.



There's far too many United fans right now watching with a skewed view. The way we've been playing should show that we are a long way from being ready to compete for the title! Anybody who thinks differently is doing a good job of convincing themselves.

Utd will finish above Arsenal this season

 

[Red Dreams]

The points prove nothing at this stage, unfortunately. I disagree that we are level as teams because when I look at your team I don't see a player of the ilk of an Alexis or Özil. On top of that, we have players like Walcott, Cazorla, Ramsey, Giroud and Chamberlain. Honestly I think Chamberlain is better than Memphis and Rooney at the moment and he can't even make our starting 11.

I can't believe how confident United fans are about their chances this season but I say fair play, positivity amongst the fans can be a catalyst to do well as it can lead to a positive atmosphere around the club.

It's early in the season but I will say that I'd be very disappointed to finish below anyone that isn't Man City because I think they are the only team that could lay claim to potentially having a stronger squad than us. At the end of the day, you support your team and I support mine so it's probably inevitable that we'll disagree; I guess all we can do is wait to see how the season goes.

Arsenal don't have a better team or squad than United. One win caused by a brainfart by Van Gaal does not change that. You are a soft centered side. If allowed to play of course you will score goals. Sanchez is the one player I wish we had. We have better players in every other department. You wont win the title, not because of City. Your team...especially your manager does not have the mental strength to win a title. He is past it.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

Utd will finish above Arsenal this season

It's a brave prediction that and not one that I agree with but we'll see.

Arsenal don't have a better team or squad than United. One win caused by a brainfart by Van Gaal does not change that. You are a soft centered side. If allowed to play of course you will score goals. Sanchez is the one player I wish we had. We have better players in every other department. You wont win the title, not because of City. Your team...especially your manager does not have the mental strength to win a title. He is past it.

I'm sorry but are you seriously suggesting that our squad is no better than Arsenal's? And that we have better players in every department?

Let's look at this for a minute... Yes we have a better GK but there's is still a top top GK. In defence I'd say they are better as a unit. In Smalling we have the best defender but as a collective bunch I don't think there's much between them. I give them the edge because Blind gets found out and they've played together as a defense longer. Midfield we win the battle but only defensively. The passing ability of Carrick and Schweinsteiger is negated by the lack of movement. And in attack we are woefully short of them. They have pace, power and movement mixed in with creative passers. We have Mata who flits in and out and Martial!

 

[Red Dreams]

What??

 

[The Purist]

How can you say we have a soft centre when we have won back to back FA Cups - or is that easy to do these days aswell?

How can you say United are more consistent when you drew at home to a team as bad as Newcastle, lost to Swansea and us and have the same amount of points?

 

[Red Dreams]

read the post again. btw have you now climbed down to be a cup winning side? The English Title is all that matters.

As to our consistency or lack thereof, look at the various threads with regards to van Gaal's tactics...or lack thereof.

My point is we have the players. they need to be used properly. I am beginning to have my doubts about van Gaal.

 

[The Purist]

read the post again. btw have you now climbed down to be a cup winning side? The English Title is all that matters.

As to our consistency or lack thereof, look at the various threads with regards to van Gaal's tactics...or lack thereof.

My point is we have the players. they need to be used properly. I am beginning to have my doubts about van Gaal.

The FA Cup doesn't matter?

Did you start supporting United when you signed up to this forum or something?

Theres no need to be bitter, mate. You come across with a degree of blasè arrogance which isn't justified by actual evidence.

 

[Red Dreams]

The FA Cup doesn't matter?

Did you start supporting United when you signed up to this forum or something?

Theres no need to be bitter, mate. You come across with a degree of blasè arrogance which isn't justified by actual evidence.

now where did I say the cup does not matter. Bitter? For pointing out you have not won the title in ages? I see I did get under your skin. You are a smaller club than us. Come talk when you have won the English title again.

 

[Red Dreams]

Purist. I grant Arsenal played to their strength and won. But we might as well not have turned up that day...in fact we did not. To surrender midfield as we did goes against fundamental football tactics.

 

[sunama]

The FA Cup doesn't matter?

The FA Cup is a trophy and does matter.
But the league is what all domestic teams aspire to winning.
I doubt any football club would choose the FA Cup, over the league.

 

[The Purist]

now where did I say the cup does not matter. Bitter? For pointing out you have not won the title in ages? I see I did get under your skin. You are a smaller club than us. Come talk when you have won the English title again.

You think that pointing out we haven't won the title since 2004 gets under my skin? Of course not, I know that already. I know how to manage expectations. But right now we've built a quality team for little money relative to what most teams spend on these types of players and have a real chance.

You just sound really bitter and hateful. I feel bad for you. My seven year old United fan cousin who doesn't watch any of the matches comes out with the kind of statements at the end of your last post.. Haha.

 

[The Purist]

The FA Cup is a trophy and does matter.
But the league is what all domestic teams aspire to winning.
I doubt any football club would choose the FA Cup, over the league.

And I doubt any football club would choose winning nothing for 2 seasons over winning the FA Cup for 2 seasons, which is why his arrogance is baffling..

 

[sunama]

Purist. I grant Arsenal played to their strength and won. But we might as well not have turned up that day...in fact we did not. To surrender midfield as we did goes against fundamental football tactics.

After 3-0 I actually felt it would be best if we could just throw a white handkerchief and walked off the pitch. Like a boxer who gives up and throws in the towel.
Basically, our players didn't seem interested at all in fighting against Arsenal players. MUFC players started entering the game at around the 40th minute, but our system/players lacked the speed to unlock Arsenal's defence.

 

[Red Dreams]

You think that pointing out we haven't won the title since 2004 gets under my skin? Of course not, I know that already. I know how to manage expectations. But right now we've built a quality team for little money relative to what most teams spend on these types of players and have a real chance.

You just sound really bitter and hateful. I feel bad for you. My seven year old United fan cousin who doesn't watch any of the matches comes out with the kind of statements at the end of your last post.. Haha.

nah..that is what you have made up in your mind because i will not roll over and accept you have built some super team. good luck.

 

[sunama]

And I doubt any football club would choose winning nothing for 2 seasons over winning the FA Cup for 2 seasons, ...

Oh yes. Of course.

 

[The Purist]

nah..that is what you have made up in your mind because i will not roll over and accept you have built some super team. good luck.

We have built a squad capable of building on our recent cup successes by going on to win the league. As I said, I think City are the favourites to win the title - but we are definitely in with a shout.

 

[Red Dreams]

After 3-0 I actually felt it would be best if we could just throw a white handkerchief and walked off the pitch. Like a boxer who gives up and throws in the towel.
Basically, our players didn't seem interested at all in fighting against Arsenal players. MUFC players started entering the game at around the 40th minute, but our system/players lacked the speed to unlock Arsenal's defence.

we came back into the game because they let us...having possession is meaningless. Its what you do with the ball. We lost the moment we entered the field with van Gaal's 'tactics'...and yes our players being without a plan B.

 

[Red Dreams]

We have built a squad capable of building on our recent cup successes by going on to win the league. As I said, I think City are the favourites to win the title - but we are definitely in with a shout.

Now we agree.

EDIT: I'm direct Purist. Nothing personal. You sound a reasonable poster. I say what I think though. have followed United for longer than I care to remember. But I feel a sadness for what is happening not just to my club, but to the game..especially in England.

its easier for me being here....I think.

 

[The Purist]

Now we agree.

I've never said anything contrary. I think City are the favourites, followed by Arsenal.

If you disagree, go back United at 8/1 on Coral.

 

[Red Dreams]

bookies? wtf do they know.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

bookies? wtf do they know.

Haha Arsenal fans looking to bookies to prove they are contenders, don't make me laugh

 

[dirkey]

God. Some United fans really make me cringe with posts about how we'll definitely finish above Arsenal, "come back when you win the league again" etc. Embarrassing stuff. To say that we're a better team than Arsenal is also hilarious, given the fact they're level in the league and Arsenal just destroyed us. Along with that, the bookies, who are very rarely wrong, and are completely unbiased in these views, have Arsenal as higher favourites for the title.

Arsenal are currently the better team. It's quite simple, and obvious to those of us who aren't completely biased. Will they remain that way at the end of the year? I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm certainly not 100% convinced that we'll be better either. If I had to lean one way, I'd fancy Arsenal more. We're currently relying on a 19 year old who is playing brilliantly. Far too many passengers in the team. When Martial goes through his inevitable slump, we'll see where we're at.

I honestly thought Rooney would play himself into form by now - he's the ultimate confidence player, or has been in the past. But I'm really beginning to doubt him at this stage, he's just terrible for the past while.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

God. Some United fans really make me cringe with posts about how we'll definitely finish above Arsenal, "come back when you win the league again" etc. Embarrassing stuff. To say that we're a better team than Arsenal is also hilarious, given the fact they're level in the league and Arsenal just destroyed us. Along with that, the bookies, who are very rarely wrong, and are completely unbiased in these views, have Arsenal as higher favourites for the title.

Arsenal are currently the better team. It's quite simple, and obvious to those of us who aren't completely biased. Will they remain that way at the end of the year? I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm certainly not 100% convinced that we'll be better either. If I had to lean one way, I'd fancy Arsenal more. We're currently relying on a 19 year old who is playing brilliantly. Far too many passengers in the team. When Martial goes through his inevitable slump, we'll see where we're at.

I honestly thought Rooney would play himself into form by now - he's the ultimate confidence player, or has been in the past. But I'm really beginning to doubt him at this stage, he's just terrible for the past while.

And some Arsenal fans make me cringe when they say that a team that hasn't finished above third in the league fr decades can buy one keeper and suddenly that makes them title contenders. Your either kidding yourself, or seriously under rating our players if you really think they are better than us. I personally don't think there is much between the two sides but I think Utd will only improve this year and van gaal has shown last year that we are better than Arsenal in the big games. In regards to the weekends result I think Arsenal caught Van Gaal and his tactics off guard as we tried to be too bold and they severely punished us for it. If we could replay the game now in the knowledge of what happened at the weekend then I think we would see an entirely different Utd team and performance and I would expect us to give them a real game. They killed the game in 20 minutes so no one really got to see how a true reflection of the teams would pan out, however last year we won so I'd imagine it would be slot closer. in terms of title credentials well we will see if Utd are up to scratch in the next few weeks. If we are top after the city game then Arsenal won't get close to us this year just like in the past.

 

[David Court]

Funny this thread is still going strong after what, 3 days?

There seems to be a real debate here, one of fairly strong opposing views.

The died in the wool Utd fans cannot countenance the possibility that Arsenal, of all teams, actually might be better than them. The idea is so gross that they have to microscopically examine every possible self induced failure to explain this obviously egregiously rogue result.

Other Utd fans, take a more expansionist view. Let's face it they say, we've been less than convincing so far and have been fortunate to get the points we did. We came up against a fired up Arsenal blessed with their quality and pace up front and we are found out.

Non Utd fans like me think simply. Arsenal have beaten Utd twice and drawn once in their last 3 head to heads two of those games being at OT and wonder why the comprehensive defeat at the weekend has come as such a surprise to them?

Look, maybe the result against what some of you consider to be an inferior Arsenal team was an outlier caused by poor tactics, selection and lack of energy, aggression, whatever......

Let's forget that and instead see how Utd perform in their next 6 league games. Win them and we will be persuaded of the excellence at OT. Lose them, or even some of them, the verdict is likely to be different.

I'm holding my breath.

 

[David Court]

It sounds nice but don't forget you said he ain't a full back which is lack of basic knowledge about football. You did't just say he's a mediocre full back which would be a regular knee jerk reaction. That's the difference.

As for the squad, it's not too old for me, seeing that our best 11 would contain one or two 30s and 3 u21 players. Pace is lacking in CM when Schneiderlin isn't playing, which is my major doubt against signing Gundogan. We've plenty of slow-ish, classy players in midfield, we need more pace and power there.

Back-four is pacey when everyone's fit, actually rapid if you replace Blind with Jones. Martial up front is rapid, Depay pretty pacey and Mata's a quick thinker.

I've taken some stick here Tomus for saying Darmian isn't a full back, so I'll reply to your civil post instead of others who make the same point.

Darmian is a wing back. Great at getting forward. He is not a full back as amply demonstrated at the weekend. I don't deny he'll look good against lesser teams when driving forward but up against top class wide players with pace forcing him to stay back and defend, he gets found out.

As you'll see more often from here on in. Why do you think he was hooked at half time bringing on Valencia who is also not a full back but at least has the speed Darmian lacks to match Sanchez.

Some of you guys really have no idea failing to understand what differentiates a full back from a wing back.

Here's a clue. Compare G Neville to Darmian. Got it?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I've taken some stick here Tomus for saying Darmian isn't a full back, so I'll reply to your civil post instead of others who make the same point.

Darmian is a wing back. Great at getting forward. He is not a full back as amply demonstrated at the weekend. I don't deny he'll look good against lesser teams when driving forward but up against top class wide players with pace forcing him to stay back and defend, he gets found out.

As you'll see more often from here on in. Why do you think he was hooked at half time bringing on Valencia who is also not a full back but at least has the speed Darmian lacks to match Sanchez.

Some of you guys really have no idea failing to understand what differentiates a full back from a wing back.

Here's a clue. Compare G Neville to Darmian. Got it?

I'm not sure if you have watched Utd play this season, but Darmain has been a rock defensively and has barely lost a single one on one challenge. He's certainly not a wingback considering it's his attacking ability that is letting him down. At the weekend Darmian was certainly not at his best but a lot of this was down the fact that he was against one of the best wingers in the league and was left exposed which caused him to get turned inside out. As for your last comment, personally I think his play style is the closed thing we have had to Gary Neville since he retired, he is positionaly sound,intelligent and great at one on one tackling so I really don't think you have watched enough of him to have come to your conclusion.

 

[Gol123]

The FA Cup doesn't matter?

Did you start supporting United when you signed up to this forum or something?

Theres no need to be bitter, mate. You come across with a degree of blasè arrogance which isn't justified by actual evidence.

Wigan won the FA cup under Martinez the season they got relegated. The FA cup doesn't mean shit these days.

 

[711]

Wigan fans would strongly disagree. Should have seen after the final.

 

[Gol123]

Wigan fans would strongly disagree. Should have seen after the final.

It's nice for a team like Wigan but for a side in Arsenals position, two FA cups in ten years is absolutely shit.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Two in two years has been quite fun tbh.

 

[The Purist]

This influx of 'modern' football fans man...

 

[The Purist]

Two in two years has been quite fun tbh.

I know, right?

I can extend a bunch of years on to statistics also, @Gol123 - look.

Chelsea have won the league 4 times in over a decade. But only 5 times in 110 years. So in other words, until Abramovich showed up, you were absolutely shit.

In 110 years, you've been relegated six times. Not good enough for a team with all that money surely?

 

[Gol123]

Wigan fans would strongly disagree. Should have seen after the final.

It's nice for a team like Wigan but for a side in Arsenals position, two FA cups in ten years is absolutely shit.

I know, right?

I can extend a bunch of years on to statistics also, @Gol123 - look.

Chelsea have won the league 4 times in over a decade. But only 5 times in 110 years. So in other words, until Abramovich showed up, you were absolutely shit.

In 110 years, you've been relegated six times. Not good enough for a team with all that money surely?

Winning an FA cup doesn't prove you have the mentality to win a league. A league is all about consistency which Arsenal lack. Sure they can look like world beaters for a couple of months but the can also go a few months where they can't score in a brothel. Champions need Tha consistency to win, cup competitions are all about finding form at the right time and one off performances.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

How can you say we have a soft centre when we have won back to back FA Cups - or is that easy to do these days aswell?

How can you say United are more consistent when you drew at home to a team as bad as Newcastle, lost to Swansea and us and have the same amount of points?

I think the you, as in United, haven't played anyone yet is a bit of a myth. Just as the saying - there are no easy games in the PL.

To date United have played Spurs, Liverpool, Swansea, Arsenal and Southampton in the first 8 games, We won our home games and found taking on the other 3 away from home a challenge. The latter reflects that teams in the top half of the table are usually pretty hard to beat at home. Though both Swansea and Southampton caused us problems for a only a short period in the games. When you consider we have Everton and City away next, that is quite a difficult start to a season. So to be same points as Arsenal and just behind City is not so bad.

Not saying our performances have been sound, but bar Arsenal and Southampton away we have looked pretty solid as a unit. When you consider what WHU did to City and Arsenal, what Southampton did to Chelsea it is pretty clear the standard in the PL is leveling out as far as teams go. You don't need a Sanchez to be competitive, though I would argue it will strengthen you ability to challenge for a trophy.

Arsenal winning back to back cups is good, but I doubt very much it was number one on the list for Wenger.

 

[The Purist]

@SalfordRed1960 Cant disagree with much of that except that you didn't face the same Southampton side on the day that Chelsea did. If they were clinical like Arsenal they, too, could have finished United in the first 30 minutes. I've seen a lot of Southampton this season and that was a poor performance from them.

About the cups not being top of Wenger's list: I'd agree with that.. But it's certainly higher on the list than winning nothing for two seasons which is why I still don't understand the disrespect Arsenal seem to be treated with on here and amongst the media. We have a good to great team in terms of Premier League standards and still get no recognition. I watched the Sky Sports coverage of the game on Sunday after I got in from the game itself and couldn't believe some of the stuff coming out of Gary Neville's mouth - some of it was just absolute stupidity! People seem to think this is the same Arsenal of the Denilson/Song era.. And simply can't accept the reality that we are a quality side. Again, I repeat, I don't make us favourites but we ARE a quality side.