[SalfordRed1960]

@SalfordRed1960 Cant disagree with much of that except that you didn't face the same Southampton side on the day that Chelsea did. If they were clinical like Arsenal they, too, could have finished United in the first 30 minutes. I've seen a lot of Southampton this season and that was a poor performance from them.

About the cups not being top of Wenger's list: I'd agree with that.. But it's certainly higher on the list than winning nothing for two seasons which is why I still don't understand the disrespect Arsenal seem to be treated with on here and amongst the media. We have a good to great team in terms of Premier League standards and still get no recognition. I watched the Sky Sports coverage of the game on Sunday after I got in from the game itself and couldn't believe some of the stuff coming out of Gary Neville's mouth - some of it was just absolute stupidity! People seem to think this is the same Arsenal of the Denilson/Song era.. And simply can't accept the reality that we are a quality side. Again, I repeat, I don't make us favourites but we ARE a quality side.

Agree. Just sounds silly hearing Arsenal are quality, yet United are apparently shit. Yet with the same games played we have the same points, with arguably the same level of competition.

 

[dirkey]

And some Arsenal fans make me cringe when they say that a team that hasn't finished above third in the league fr decades can buy one keeper and suddenly that makes them title contenders. Your either kidding yourself, or seriously under rating our players if you really think they are better than us. I personally don't think there is much between the two sides but I think Utd will only improve this year and van gaal has shown last year that we are better than Arsenal in the big games. In regards to the weekends result I think Arsenal caught Van Gaal and his tactics off guard as we tried to be too bold and they severely punished us for it. If we could replay the game now in the knowledge of what happened at the weekend then I think we would see an entirely different Utd team and performance and I would expect us to give them a real game. They killed the game in 20 minutes so no one really got to see how a true reflection of the teams would pan out, however last year we won so I'd imagine it would be slot closer. in terms of title credentials well we will see if Utd are up to scratch in the next few weeks. If we are top after the city game then Arsenal won't get close to us this year just like in the past.

I don't think I'm seriously under rating our players to be honest. The fact of the matter is, it's been 2 years since we finished above Arsenal. I've seen nothing so far this season to say we'll definitely finish above them. Obviously if we could replay the game with hindsight things would be different, that's kind of a pointless statement.

Do you foresee no trouble at all for this United side should Martial get injured, with Rooney in this seemingly perennial funk of his, as we'd have no-one else to lead the line (in my opinion, Wilson isn't good enough yet).

To definitively claim right now that United will finish above Arsenal is, well it's a flight of fancy in my opinion. They may well. Are they miles better than Arsenal, as you seem to think? Not in my opinion, no way. I use the evidence of the last 2 seasons, along with the game at the weekend. Sure, that's not definitive at all, at the same time, how can you just completely disregard a game where we were completely outfought, outthought and beaten easily?

 

[dirkey]

Agree. Just sounds silly hearing Arsenal are quality, yet United are apparently shit. Yet with the same games played we have the same points, with arguably the same level of competition.

I don't think you can really say it's the same level of opposition. If you take out the game between the two clubs, and the teams both have played, the average position of teams Arsenal has played is 9th (and that's with Chelsea being the lowest in 16th). United's is 13th, and most of those teams are roughly where they should be in the table.

Arsenal have had a harder start to the season in my opinion.

 

[The Purist]

I don't think you can really say it's the same level of opposition. If you take out the game between the two clubs, and the teams both have played, the average position of teams Arsenal has played is 9th (and that's with Chelsea being the lowest in 16th). United's is 13th, and most of those teams are roughly where they should be in the table.

Arsenal have had a harder start to the season in my opinion.

And our average is probably brought down further by playing Chelsea who are floating above the relegation zone.....

 

[Dante]

We're more of a work in progress than Arsenal, though.

They're only integrating a single new 'keeper.

We've got an entirely new midfield, 2 new players for the defence, a new winger as well as a new centre forward. It's likely that we're going to pick up more steam than Arsenal as the season progresses. The fact we're level pegging in October bodes well.

 

[dirkey]

And our average is probably brought down further by playing Chelsea who are floating above the relegation zone.....

I thought I kinda mentioned that??

 

[The Purist]

I thought I kinda mentioned that??

So you did! Aw well, nothing wrong with both of us mentioning it. It's funny.

 

[K2K]

We were deservingly beaten, let the Arsenal fans have their moment. If we had beaten a fellow top 4 contender 3-0, we would be tooting our own horn too.

As for the FA cup, its a massive trophy which we used to be record holders in. I'd love for us to win it again, but its been heartbreak only in that cup in the last 10 years. Whoever beats usually goes on to win the cup too. During the last few years of Fergie's reogn, we routinely toyed with Arsenal. But since his retirement, they have finished above us twice in trophy winning seasons too while we have not had the best times. Soft belly, mentally weak? maybe..but until we are regularly winning things ourselves and finishing ahead of them with ease like we used to, this is simply throwing stones while stuck in a glasshouse.

But, we'll get back there, hopefully very soon.

 

[Winrar]

just as a side note here I think some united fans are still caught in the "we always beat arsenal" bubble after our long period of domination over them.

times have changed since,arsenal have strengthened over the years (even though they only signed a GK this summer, although a top one at that) while we are in a period of transition trying to find the right balance. we can't take this fixture for granted any more.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I don't think you can really say it's the same level of opposition. If you take out the game between the two clubs, and the teams both have played, the average position of teams Arsenal has played is 9th (and that's with Chelsea being the lowest in 16th). United's is 13th, and most of those teams are roughly where they should be in the table.

Arsenal have had a harder start to the season in my opinion.

Not sure I agree with you. We have played 5 of the top 8 from last season already, of which we are one of the remaining 3. Sure Villa, Newcastle and Sunderland are easier, but Arsenal have only played 2 of the top 8.

 

[dirkey]

Not sure I agree with you. We have played 5 of the top 8 from last season already, of which we are one of the remaining 3. Sure Villa, Newcastle and Sunderland are easier, but Arsenal have only played 2 of the top 8.

Perhaps, that's another way of looking at it. I think a lot has changed since last year though.

 

[K2K]

just as a side note here I think some united fans are still caught in the "we always beat arsenal" bubble after our long period of domination over them.

times have changed since,arsenal have strengthened over the years (even though they only signed a GK this summer, although a top one at that) while we are in a period of transition trying to find the right balance. we can't take this fixture for granted any more.

My thoughts exactly...times have changed, and we cant keep dsimissing Arsenal when we are hardly great ourselves..We are now both part of the chasing pack now behind the Billionaire clubs.

 

[RedorDead21]

My thoughts exactly...times have changed, and we cant keep dsimissing Arsenal when we are hardly great ourselves..We are now both part of the chasing pack now behind the Billionaire clubs.

This was one game. We did well against them with Moyes and again last season. Tactically you can pinpoint where we should have set up differently as we should have under SAF until he figured them out. Add to this we had less rest and rested fewer players midweek and I think you can argue that this could well be just a bad day at the office against a team we have no right to expect to beat away from home anyway!

 

[K2K]

This was one game. We did well against them with Moyes and again last season. Tactically you can pinpoint where we should have set up differently as we should have under SAF until he figured them out. Add to this we had less rest and rested fewer players midweek and I think you can argue that this could well be just a bad day at the office against a team we have no right to expect to beat away from home anyway!

They beat us last season too, in the most important game we faced each other in the previous season. And we cant just view this in isolation, without considering league positions. How many times did Liverpool beat us but finish below us in the league? Give them some credit, they have improved from their rut..All I am saying is that Arsenal deserve credit, which some people just wont give them , no matter what. They were the better side in a comprehensive 3-0 win. Yes their fans here are flaming the fires with their comments, but they have been the butt of jokes for too long here. I say if we can dish it out, lets take it too.

 

[Kraftwerker]

@SalfordRed1960 Cant disagree with much of that except that you didn't face the same Southampton side on the day that Chelsea did. If they were clinical like Arsenal they, too, could have finished United in the first 30 minutes. I've seen a lot of Southampton this season and that was a poor performance from them.

About the cups not being top of Wenger's list: I'd agree with that.. But it's certainly higher on the list than winning nothing for two seasons which is why I still don't understand the disrespect Arsenal seem to be treated with on here and amongst the media. We have a good to great team in terms of Premier League standards and still get no recognition. I watched the Sky Sports coverage of the game on Sunday after I got in from the game itself and couldn't believe some of the stuff coming out of Gary Neville's mouth - some of it was just absolute stupidity! People seem to think this is the same Arsenal of the Denilson/Song era.. And simply can't accept the reality that we are a quality side. Again, I repeat, I don't make us favourites but we ARE a quality side.

You're a good side but come on. You're likely to crash out of a piss easy Champions League group, and you're only another bad result away from the knives being out for Wenger. This is the problem with looking at things week to week. You're riding a crest at the moment from an increasingly rare big game victory but there's no way you're on here crowing about being a quality side 1 week prior when you looked hopeless and weak. The bigger picture is that Arsenal are a good side with problems and questionable ability to compete for the major honours. Which is where United find themselves too.

 

[Archie Leach]

Big game wins are actually decreasingly rare for us.

 

[Winrar]

This was one game. We did well against them with Moyes and again last season. Tactically you can pinpoint where we should have set up differently as we should have under SAF until he figured them out. Add to this we had less rest and rested fewer players midweek and I think you can argue that this could well be just a bad day at the office against a team we have no right to expect to beat away from home anyway!

we did well last season... to get knocked out of fa cup against arsenal.

 

[Oneunited26]

I don't think I'm seriously under rating our players to be honest. The fact of the matter is, it's been 2 years since we finished above Arsenal. I've seen nothing so far this season to say we'll definitely finish above them. Obviously if we could replay the game with hindsight things would be different, that's kind of a pointless statement.

Do you foresee no trouble at all for this United side should Martial get injured, with Rooney in this seemingly perennial funk of his, as we'd have no-one else to lead the line (in my opinion, Wilson isn't good enough yet).

To definitively claim right now that United will finish above Arsenal is, well it's a flight of fancy in my opinion. They may well. Are they miles better than Arsenal, as you seem to think? Not in my opinion, no way. I use the evidence of the last 2 seasons, along with the game at the weekend. Sure, that's not definitive at all, at the same time, how can you just completely disregard a game where we were completely outfought, outthought and beaten easily?

I have no idea where we will finish, we could come 2nd third or 4th, we will finish in the top 4, title winners? hmmm not good odds. Like I have said about this squad ,we have has many problems now has the last 4 to 5 years, back then we had fergie has the mask to hide the problems, now we do not. VG has made us a strong top 4, title challengers and winners, still have not.

The problems with united squad

Defense - our options? darmian, valencia, smalling, blind, mcnair, young - one injury to smalling, is a huge crisis and we are relying on smalling to stay fit week in week out, look at the other problems with the defense, blind not a CB, shaw rojo and jones not available, Evans sold, what is the backup to darmian? valencia, these are huge huge problems that VG never looked to solve over the summer

attack - our options? depay, Martial,Wilson - Rooney is out of form for a long time, and now he is injured, our hopes are put on a young striker, and if he does not play we either put depay upfront, or put our hopes on wilson. While the midfield has been improved, its not masking the problems with our backline and frontline. While we had a good summer, there are still scary problems with this squad, and the performances from august 2014 have improved a tiny bit

 

[JazzG]

And some Arsenal fans make me cringe when they say that a team that hasn't finished above third in the league fr decades can buy one keeper and suddenly that makes them title contenders. Your either kidding yourself, or seriously under rating our players if you really think they are better than us. I personally don't think there is much between the two sides but I think Utd will only improve this year and van gaal has shown last year that we are better than Arsenal in the big games. In regards to the weekends result I think Arsenal caught Van Gaal and his tactics off guard as we tried to be too bold and they severely punished us for it. If we could replay the game now in the knowledge of what happened at the weekend then I think we would see an entirely different Utd team and performance and I would expect us to give them a real game. They killed the game in 20 minutes so no one really got to see how a true reflection of the teams would pan out, however last year we won so I'd imagine it would be slot closer. in terms of title credentials well we will see if Utd are up to scratch in the next few weeks. If we are top after the city game then Arsenal won't get close to us this year just like in the past.

Sounds like you're clutching at straws. Replay the game knowing what our game plan would be would get you a different result? And from what you've seen Man Utd will leave Arsenal behind if they're top by the time. If I was a Man Utd fan I'd cringe more at that then what Arsenal fans think.

 

[Akshay]

Big game wins are actually decreasingly rare for us.

Yup. Arsenal have drastically improved at that over the last year or so. But what is it down to, do you think?

 

[Sarni]

Yup. Arsenal have drastically improved at that over the last year or so. But what is it down to, do you think?

Big club experience of players like Sanchez and Ozil.

 

[JazzG]

Yup. Arsenal have drastically improved at that over the last year or so. But what is it down to, do you think?

A more solid defence, Kos + Mertesacker look to compliment each other well and in Bellerin + Monreal we have two excellent fullbacks. The midfield also screening the defence better, Coquelin plays a big part in that role. But also a more conservative game plan, we aren't as gung ho as we used to be. We always create chances but before we were getting a bit carried away.

 

[Akshay]

@SalfordRed1960
But it's certainly higher on the list than winning nothing for two seasons which is why I still don't understand the disrespect Arsenal seem to be treated with on here and amongst the media. We have a good to great team in terms of Premier League standards and still get no recognition. I watched the Sky Sports coverage of the game on Sunday after I got in from the game itself and couldn't believe some of the stuff coming out of Gary Neville's mouth - some of it was just absolute stupidity! People seem to think this is the same Arsenal of the Denilson/Song era.. And simply can't accept the reality that we are a quality side. Again, I repeat, I don't make us favourites but we ARE a quality side.

The media work in fairly simple ways. They've built up a narrative about Arsenal over the last few years and are reluctant to revise it. Most of us fans end up being influenced by the media whether we realize it or not; either directly or by discussing things with mates who themselves read the papers. I think only a PL title or a CL finals appearance will change that.

It's just like how United are still being measured by the standards of title contenders and CL heavyweights despite 7th and 4th place finishes over the last two seasons. I wouldn't accept any less as a United fan myself.

A more solid defence, Kos + Mertesacker look to compliment each other well and in Bellerin + Monreal we have two excellent fullbacks. The midfield also screening the defence better, Coquelin plays a big part in that role. But also a more conservative game plan, we aren't as gung ho as we used to be. We always create chances but before we were getting a bit carried away.

This is true. I was impressed by how Arsenal shifted gears after they went 3 up. Happy to cede possession, happy to kill the game. Can't see the Arsenal of several years ago having the maturity to play like that.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Sounds like you're clutching at straws. Replay the game knowing what our game plan would be would get you a different result? And from what you've seen Man Utd will leave Arsenal behind if they're top by the time. If I was a Man Utd fan I'd cringe more at that then what Arsenal fans think.

What you mean if we had used the tactics that we used last year: 3 man midfield, counter attacking, pressing as a team, yeh if we did those things the result would have been the same as it's always been, with Arsenal on the end of yet another defeat to the big teams. Arsenal aren't a better team, not even close, it's amazing how one game can sway opinions. If you were even half a decent game don't you think you would have stood a chance in the champions league? But of course not, your overrating the Arsenal squad just like the last 10 years and you've crashed out yet again at the first hurdle in Europe. People will obviously point to this game and say that Arsenal have changed but the reality is LVG got it wrong and we payed the price. If you want a clear picture of how far you have improved this year just look at the Chelsea game, even at thier lowest point they can still beat Arsenal, that's the harsh reality.

 

[Krovv]

Only problem is that a so called inferior team beat you lot 3-0. And the score could easily have been 5 or 6-0 if not for wayward finishing. The better team won, let's just accept that and move on to the next game.

 

[David Court]

What you mean if we had used the tactics that we used last year: 3 man midfield, counter attacking, pressing as a team, yeh if we did those things the result would have been the same as it's always been, with Arsenal on the end of yet another defeat to the big teams. Arsenal aren't a better team, not even close, it's amazing how one game can sway opinions. If you were even half a decent game don't you think you would have stood a chance in the champions league? But of course not, your overrating the Arsenal squad just like the last 10 years and you've crashed out yet again at the first hurdle in Europe. People will obviously point to this game and say that Arsenal have changed but the reality is LVG got it wrong and we payed the price. If you want a clear picture of how far you have improved this year just look at the Chelsea game, even at thier lowest point they can still beat Arsenal, that's the harsh reality.

Are you speaking from de big African river?

Haven't you cottoned on its 2015 not 2011?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Are you speaking from de big African river?

Haven't you cottoned on its 2015 not 2011?

Wait so you deny the facts?
-your out of Europe
-Chelsea still beat you even when they are on the worst form for years
-you signed one player and suddenly think that means you've grown some balls to compete despite the fact that you still have wenger as your manager when it's clear he's holding you back.
I don't deny Arsenal are a good team, but you've been a good team for a decade! You need to become a great team to win the league and tbh your still no closer this year compared to last.

 

[David Court]

Wait so you deny the facts?
-your out of Europe
-Chelsea still beat you even when they are on the worst form for years
-you signed one player and suddenly think that means you've grown some balls to compete despite the fact that you still have wenger as your manager when it's clear he's holding you back.
I don't deny Arsenal are a good team, but you've been a good team for a decade! You need to become a great team to win the league and tbh your still no closer this year compared to last.

Well, given I've suggested you're in de Nile in my previous post (did you get that btw?) funny you should suggest I'm denying 'facts'?

Can I point out to you that I support Charlton Athletic? Something you might have noticed had you any attention to detail? It's on my byline. Anyway, given your seeming lack of attention to detail, along with your inability to distinguish between fact and opinion, I will give you as objective a response as you might expect from someone as disinterested as me. Before I start, it's only fair to add I enjoy watching Arsenal play like many neutrals because under Wenger they aspire to an art of perfection that may not be successful but is often a joy to watch. Even their regular humiliations have a kind of beauty attaching to them like all glorious failures or tragedies in art or for that matter, sport. A bit like the doomed charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava. Magnificent but misguided.

Anyway, let's deal with your points.

I think you'll find Arsenal are still in Europe? They may not progress, but even then they might still get Europa League?

I think arsenal were a tad unlucky against Chelsea. Two sendings off, one clearly not merited had Costa at the time been identified as the errant chap he is and Cazorla because he was chasing the game and reckless. I feel Arsenal might have won that game, 11 v 11, but who knows? In any event, I don't see their loss at Chelsea as suggesting they are not a good team.

Actually, I'm not going to bother to respond to the last point you make as I find it somewhat incoherent.

 

[JazzG]

This is true. I was impressed by how Arsenal shifted gears after they went 3 up. Happy to cede possession, happy to kill the game. Can't see the Arsenal of several years ago having the maturity to play like that.

To be honest I can't remember the last time we got ahead so early in a game like this! I think having Coquelin + Cazorla in the middle has allowed us to concede possession more and let teams try to break us down. Those two funnily enough are better at that but get found out when they have to dictate and take the game to the opposition.

What you mean if we had used the tactics that we used last year: 3 man midfield, counter attacking, pressing as a team, yeh if we did those things the result would have been the same as it's always been, with Arsenal on the end of yet another defeat to the big teams. Arsenal aren't a better team, not even close, it's amazing how one game can sway opinions. If you were even half a decent game don't you think you would have stood a chance in the champions league? But of course not, your overrating the Arsenal squad just like the last 10 years and you've crashed out yet again at the first hurdle in Europe. People will obviously point to this game and say that Arsenal have changed but the reality is LVG got it wrong and we payed the price. If you want a clear picture of how far you have improved this year just look at the Chelsea game, even at thier lowest point they can still beat Arsenal, that's the harsh reality.

Sounds like you're in complete denial here, trying your best to put Arsenal down, I'm not overrated or underrated anyone here. Last season you got battered by us but in the game at Emirates but unlike this game we didn't take our chances. In the games at Old Trafford we beat you in the cup and apart from a good first half in the league match under Van Gaal your team has never looked better than us. So yeah lets stop going on about the past and your magic formula of beating us because those days are long gone.

The reality is you need to worry more about your own side and stop trying to make Arsenal out as being some team who got lucky on the day. Why the hell are you even talking about Europe for? What relevance does that have with the game against Man Utd? You find out at the end of the season who the better side is not in October.

 

[Oneunited26]

What you mean if we had used the tactics that we used last year: 3 man midfield, counter attacking, pressing as a team, yeh if we did those things the result would have been the same as it's always been, with Arsenal on the end of yet another defeat to the big teams. Arsenal aren't a better team, not even close, it's amazing how one game can sway opinions. If you were even half a decent game don't you think you would have stood a chance in the champions league? But of course not, your overrating the Arsenal squad just like the last 10 years and you've crashed out yet again at the first hurdle in Europe. People will obviously point to this game and say that Arsenal have changed but the reality is LVG got it wrong and we payed the price. If you want a clear picture of how far you have improved this year just look at the Chelsea game, even at thier lowest point they can still beat Arsenal, that's the harsh reality.

Perhaps we should face facts our squad is not that good, and it's not the days where we had the edge over Arsenal. Or to add on perhaps VG is not that good either, and the current team sums up why VG is just not that very good. Our record against Arsenal over the last 4 games reads WLDL, not exactly a team Arsenal should fear, is it?

 

[NinjaZombie]

I don't get this narrative that Arsenal are not that good. They've got Sanchez and Ozil. I fully expected us to lose to them, especially because they were at home and had just lost to Olympiacos.

 

[Red Dreams]

Brief view by our Pete who is no longer here:

"I was indeed at the game - basking in the autumnal sunshine as we raced to a 3-0 lead (I'd called it 4-1 which led to cries of 'we'll have some of what you're smoking' in the pub beforehand). Was a bit like the glory days with Henry, Bergkamp and co killing off games (though not v United) in 20 minutes. I thought, good though we were on the day, you were poor (as you have been in other games this season though getting results), van Gaal seems to have spent a lot of money to not really improve on Moyes or develop a coherent strategy - plan B still seems to be lump it up to Fellaini."

Wish he was here.

 

[Jippy]

Brief view by our Pete who is no longer here:

"I was indeed at the game - basking in the autumnal sunshine as we raced to a 3-0 lead (I'd called it 4-1 which led to cries of 'we'll have some of what you're smoking' in the pub beforehand). Was a bit like the glory days with Henry, Bergkamp and co killing off games (though not v United) in 20 minutes. I thought, good though we were on the day, you were poor (as you have been in other games this season though getting results), van Gaal seems to have spent a lot of money to not really improve on Moyes or develop a coherent strategy - plan B still seems to be lump it up to Fellaini."

Wish he was here.

Sounds quite measured for Pete. I miss him too.

 

[SteveJ]

Even their regular humiliations have a kind of beauty attaching to them like all glorious failures or tragedies in art or for that matter, sport. A bit like the doomed charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava. Magnificent but misguided.

Come on, David, this is too much. All too many English tragedies (Scott in Antarctica; Dunkirk; the Somme etc etc) are 'magically' transformed from what they actually are - profound failures of leadership - into glorious triumphs of a sort; when it comes to sport, Arsenal's failures often fall well short of moral victories snatched from the jaws of defeat. In this context, and in truth, the manner of the losses routinely transform tragedy into comedy.

 

[.Rossi]

Big game wins are actually decreasingly rare for us.

Gonna leave this for now

 

[Kostur]

This is true. I was impressed by how Arsenal shifted gears after they went 3 up. Happy to cede possession, happy to kill the game. Can't see the Arsenal of several years ago having the maturity to play like that.

And to me it would be impressive if they kept on going to be fair, just like we did in 8-2. There was no stopping then. They should've trashed us because our players were all over the pitch in shock not knowing what the feck to do, there was nobody to pick up the miserable bunch and for some reason Arsenal were happy just to sit back and watch. There really was a chance that day to gain a bigger win. This is something they still don't have to me, the balls to finish things off, something we don't currently have as well but we've had it under Ferguson. That's why I can't see them winning the title, it will probably be City.

Edit: not that I'm trying to belittle their win, not at all, it was an impressive and well earned win that was achieved by outplaying us, simple as that.

 

[711]

Sounds quite measured for Pete. I miss him too.

me too.

 

[caid]

just as a side note here I think some united fans are still caught in the "we always beat arsenal" bubble after our long period of domination over them.

This,
arsenal have been terrible against us for years, its a cumulative thing but our hex over them is gone.
we'll have to actually play well to beat them now and we were terrible last week.

Still think arsenal are a couple players short of being a great team but dont think they'd need to be to win the league this year.

 

[dirkey]

What you mean if we had used the tactics that we used last year: 3 man midfield, counter attacking, pressing as a team, yeh if we did those things the result would have been the same as it's always been, with Arsenal on the end of yet another defeat to the big teams. Arsenal aren't a better team, not even close, it's amazing how one game can sway opinions. If you were even half a decent game don't you think you would have stood a chance in the champions league? But of course not, your overrating the Arsenal squad just like the last 10 years and you've crashed out yet again at the first hurdle in Europe. People will obviously point to this game and say that Arsenal have changed but the reality is LVG got it wrong and we payed the price. If you want a clear picture of how far you have improved this year just look at the Chelsea game, even at thier lowest point they can still beat Arsenal, that's the harsh reality.

1 game? No mention of the fact they've finished above us in the league table for 2 years in a row? Priceless. Incredibly biased.

 

[Tomuś]

I've taken some stick here Tomus for saying Darmian isn't a full back, so I'll reply to your civil post instead of others who make the same point.

Darmian is a wing back. Great at getting forward. He is not a full back as amply demonstrated at the weekend. I don't deny he'll look good against lesser teams when driving forward but up against top class wide players with pace forcing him to stay back and defend, he gets found out.

As you'll see more often from here on in. Why do you think he was hooked at half time bringing on Valencia who is also not a full back but at least has the speed Darmian lacks to match Sanchez.

Some of you guys really have no idea failing to understand what differentiates a full back from a wing back.

Here's a clue. Compare G Neville to Darmian. Got it?

You make it sound as if he was that Brazilian, attacking wing-back that people say is poor defending-wise by default. He's anything but a 'wing-back great at attacking', though. He's your stereotypical, Italian rock-solid full-back. It's basically his attacking that has been said to need improvements than his defending that is top-notch.

Perhaps this time round, it's not us who can't differentiate between a full-back and wing-back?

By those standards you'll have ample evidence for any top defender in the business suggesting lack of defending skills. He's just had one bad game, give it a rest.